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Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?
Reason Online ^ | May 7, 2007 | Cathy Young

Posted on 05/09/2007 6:51:49 AM PDT by Lusis

The resignation of Randall Tobias, the chief of the Bush administration's foreign aid programs, for "personal reasons" following the revelation that he had engaged the services of two escort-service workers has provided rich grist for amusement on the punditry circuit. There was indeed plenty of material for humor in the situation, from Tobias's strong stand in favor of abstinence teaching in AIDS prevention programs to his "I didn't inhale"-style assertion that he never had sex with the women. But the predictable laughs have obscured a much larger issue than hypocrisy in the ranks of social conservatives. The reason Tobias's call-girl adventures became public is that the owner of the Washington, DC-based service, Pamela Martin, is facing prosecution and has turned her records over to news organizations to help pay for her legal defense.

Even those who feel a certain schadenfreude at Tobias's downfall should be asking the question: should there have been a criminal case in the first place?

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: amoral; bowtothepeepee; butgodsaysnoooooo; consentingadults; ilovebiggubmint; inprivate; itsjustsex; lawrencevtexas; libertines; othersdonotpay; prostitution; repentsinnerz; somehavetopay; thepeepeeandstate; thepeepeeasgod
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1 posted on 05/09/2007 6:51:52 AM PDT by Lusis
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To: Lusis

Perhaps because trafficking in human flesh is bad policy as well as immoral.


2 posted on 05/09/2007 6:54:00 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Lusis

Man has always paid for sex. One way or another.


3 posted on 05/09/2007 6:54:06 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Lusis

Actually we are asking why the list was not published with the rest of the names.


4 posted on 05/09/2007 6:54:21 AM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: wideawake

Then there is the disease vector issue...


5 posted on 05/09/2007 6:54:48 AM PDT by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: if his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: taxed2death

More specficially, it has always been legal to pay for sex. It is only illegal to do so in SOME circumstances.


6 posted on 05/09/2007 6:57:00 AM PDT by KenD
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To: Lusis

Taxes.

The government is worried about getting their “cut”. If health were an issue, cigarettes and booze would be outlawed.


7 posted on 05/09/2007 6:57:47 AM PDT by panaxanax (Ronald Reagan would vote for Duncan Hunter!)
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To: Lusis
It is illegal to pay for sex because our very existence as a nation relies on the Judeo-Christian values that formed us. Using the letter of the Constitution to legalize destructive, immoral activities is suicide and worthy of the Clintons, Reids and Pelosis of this world. The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution, but the Libertarians don’t care about that truth or the outcome of such an action, preferring the purity of their philosophy over the death and destruction it surely brings.
8 posted on 05/09/2007 6:58:39 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Compromise on your vote and you get a compromised government.)
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To: Lusis

I thought politicians and prostitutes were one and the same. I’ve been paying the government for years and getting screwed royally for it.


9 posted on 05/09/2007 6:59:20 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (All the credentials in the world posted on the wall will not make a person a decent human being.)
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To: panaxanax

The government doesn’t see a cut of all that baby sitting money earned by school girls. Underaged employees administering unlicensed childcare.


10 posted on 05/09/2007 7:01:18 AM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: Lusis
Prostitution is nothing more than sex and commerce.

To those opposed to prostitution, which of those are you opposed to?

11 posted on 05/09/2007 7:01:29 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: taxed2death
Man has always paid for sex. One way or another.

Marriage or divorce, either way, you pay............

12 posted on 05/09/2007 7:01:54 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Dr. Thorne
It is illegal to pay for sex because our very existence as a nation relies on the Judeo-Christian values that formed us. Using the letter of the Constitution to legalize destructive, immoral activities is suicide and worthy of the Clintons, Reids and Pelosis of this world. The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution, but the Libertarians don’t care about that truth or the outcome of such an action, preferring the purity of their philosophy over the death and destruction it surely brings.

BRAVO. You could not have stated it more clearly and concisely. My hat is off to you Doc.
13 posted on 05/09/2007 7:02:11 AM PDT by mkjessup (Jan 20, 2009 - "We Don't Know. Where Rudy Went. Just Glad He's Not. The President. Burma Shave.")
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To: Lusis
Prostitutes and Politics Why is it still illegal to pay for sex?

Because the pols can't think of a good way to regulate and tax it and still keep the prices of the "services" high enough to make it worthwhile, just to be blunt. The govt no longer has any interest in the moral aspects of it...
14 posted on 05/09/2007 7:03:35 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: Lusis

I thought women had control over their bodies?

If they can kill a human being in their womb it surely seems like they should be able to charge for sex.


15 posted on 05/09/2007 7:04:30 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: Little Ray
Then there is the disease vector issue...

Did you read the article?

Another common claim is that prostitution causes direct harm by contributing to the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/AIDS. However, that may be the reddest herring of them all. In Australia, where sex for money is legal, the rate of HIV infection among female prostitutes is so low that prostitution has been removed from the list of known risk factors in HIV surveillance. In the U.S., reliable data are more difficult to come by, but a 1987 Centers for Disease Control study likewise found very low infection rates among prostitutes.

I'm in favor of legalizing prostitution, as it is one of those "victimless crimes." By making it illegal, it isn't like we are getting rid of it, and instead we are throwing away money at policing it. If prostitution was legal, then there would be fewer pimps, since a prostitute could go to the police for protection from Johns who beat them or don't pay (I'd wager this costs less than prosecuting and jailing them). Legislating morality will not make people any more moral, and only makes the government a bigger nanny state.

16 posted on 05/09/2007 7:04:43 AM PDT by psychoknk
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To: Dr. Thorne

Well said, sir!


17 posted on 05/09/2007 7:05:23 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Duncan Hunter in 2008!)
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To: Lusis
Top issues for Libertarians:

1) Surrendering to al-Quaeda
2) Opening our national borders to everyone.
3) Legalizing drugs.
4) Legalizing prostitution.

It's just hard to take the Libertarians seriously.

18 posted on 05/09/2007 7:05:48 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: Dr. Thorne
The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution

Would they allow legalized abortion?

19 posted on 05/09/2007 7:06:29 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: Lusis

No sales our “use” tax? /sarc


20 posted on 05/09/2007 7:07:34 AM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: OB1kNOb

As Ronald Reagan so eloquently put it:

“Politics is the world’s second oldest profession and it bears a close relation to the first.”


21 posted on 05/09/2007 7:09:08 AM PDT by Nextrush ( Chris Matthews Band: "I get high....I get high.....I get high.....McCain......")
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To: 1Old Pro
Would they allow legalized abortion?

Absolutely not. We have Nazis and racists like Margaret Sanger to thank for that.

22 posted on 05/09/2007 7:09:25 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Compromise on your vote and you get a compromised government.)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Adultery is destructive yet it has been decriminalized (even though there is a violation of a legal agreement).

Fornication laws also were repealed against unmarried sex and cohabitation.

Now the Supreme Court has skipped the legislative process and decreed that homosexuality is a protected right in America.

We were told that it was about the actions of consenting adults in private yet school children are being instructed in the homosexual lifestyle and the GBLT people are urging for a change to our nation’s vice laws that see homosexuals prosecuted for public sex in washrooms. There is also a push for same sex marriage.

So much for it being about ADULTS in PRIVATE.

The act of sex with a prostitute is conducted in private yet it is considered in another strata. I’ve already pointed out the unregulated activity of babysitters.

If prostitution is regulated by the government, then again you have Big Brother in the bedroom. Right now Big Brother is busy in the bathroom checking out the size toilet bowl Americans have and may soon be inspecting the bulbs in the lighting fixtures and the number of sheets of toilet paper you are using.

I may not argue against the way the laws were but in the modern era, it is an unequal application of the Constitution. Rick Santorum spoke about the slippery slope. Some of it has come to pass. Other elements have not yet. All of it was ridiculed.


23 posted on 05/09/2007 7:09:25 AM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: Dr. Thorne
Prostitution was pretty much legal in this country, defacto if not actual, until women got the right to vote.
24 posted on 05/09/2007 7:10:14 AM PDT by Comus (There is no honor in dying with your sword sheathed)
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To: wideawake

I prefer to point out that, if one accepts the right to privacy that “emanates” from the “penumbra” of our Constitution and subsequently permits abortion on demand up to and including the ninth month of gestation, there is no way that such a right to privacy would not also extend to the right to rent out reprodutive organs according to the wishes of their owner.

It all might be morally reprehensible to any decent person, but this is what happens when written law is rejected in deference to someone divining the emanations of our body of law.

Speaking of which, isn’t “emanation” just a Three-dollar word for a fart?


25 posted on 05/09/2007 7:10:41 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: taxed2death
Man has always paid for sex. One way or another.

Sometimes dearly.
26 posted on 05/09/2007 7:11:30 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: psychoknk

You posted: “Legislating morality will not make people any more moral, and only makes the government a bigger nanny state.”

To some extent, every law is a legislation of morality (as a principle). Should we take, “Thou shalt not kill”, or “thou shalt not steal”, out of our criminal codes as well...since they are legislations of morality?


27 posted on 05/09/2007 7:11:47 AM PDT by srweaver (Never Forget the Judicial Homicide of Terri Schiavo)
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To: Dr. Thorne

But banging the secretary at work and making excuses to the wife is no crime at all.

I have yet to hear a legal / moral rebuttal to that.


28 posted on 05/09/2007 7:12:01 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Perhaps you would care to explain to the viewing audience, the existence of legal brothels in the State of Nevada.

Many great arguments against legal prostitution, but a not a valid argument from “intent of the framers”.


29 posted on 05/09/2007 7:12:17 AM PDT by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat [protest for... violence and peace])
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To: 1Old Pro
"The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution..."

But slavery was ok?
30 posted on 05/09/2007 7:12:50 AM PDT by The Louiswu (Never Forget!)
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To: psychoknk

It isn’t “victimless”, there is trafficking in sex slaves. Women who appear to be “free” but are smuggled into this country illegally, and kept through constant threats on their family and “debt” contracts that can never be paid off.

It is an international problem. But there is little attention focused on it. There are estimated to be at least 25,000 slaves in the US.

Now if any woman could get in the game, it might drive down the business interest of organized criminals to engage in such operations.


31 posted on 05/09/2007 7:13:19 AM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: OB1kNOb
I thought politicians and prostitutes were one and the same. I’ve been paying the government for years and getting screwed royally for it.

And with the govt, you don't even get a kiss beforehand.

Or, as the great Ronald Reagan once said, "Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
32 posted on 05/09/2007 7:13:19 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: Dr. Thorne

“The men who wrote that Constitution .....’

codified slavery, but found this ‘abhorrent’.

Just thought I’d point that out. Which is the worse ‘evil’ a woman taking capitalism to the proverbial ‘street level’ or enslaving humans for material gain?

citing the founders, and the Constitution, on this topic has its flaws, thats all I’m noting here, btw.


33 posted on 05/09/2007 7:13:33 AM PDT by Badeye (Some issues are more complicated than others.)
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To: Dr. Thorne
The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution...

Not too sure about how that Franklin fellow would have regarded it, personally.

For the most part, they were relatively silent on the topic. The real push for making prostitution illegal came towards the end of the 19th century from the remnants of the Abolitionist movement. The main focus was protecting women from being forced into prostitution and not to support some Puritanical moral code as some might suggest (although I'm sure the remaining Puritans were quite happy to sign on as well).

34 posted on 05/09/2007 7:14:23 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: psychoknk

“Legislating morality will not make people any more moral, and only makes the government a bigger nanny state.”

We have a winner.

By “legislating morality,” the would-be legislator must first ask “Whose morality?” And when you get into those types of semantics, you are without doubt on your way to sustaining, if not further growing, a tyrannical and overbearing nanny state.

Check out the Rad-Islams: They “legislate” their brand of morality all the time. But to them, they are the only ones with true moral standing - so, in their minds, why shouldn’t they force their moral beliefs on others?


35 posted on 05/09/2007 7:15:03 AM PDT by DangerDanger ("I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Lusis

Ummm..., I give up, why? (as if anyone had to ask the question). The first time someone started listening to “innocent questions” about something, it got the entire human race in trouble...

In the first book of the Bible, Genesis, we’re told about that question —

Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” [Genesis 3:1]

And from that one little question, the entire human race went downhill from there. That one little question wreaked havoc upon the human race.

And so, once again, we have a “little simple question” here.... don’t we? And when people decide that they don’t see it the way God sees it, *havoc* ensues... And so it goes...

.
.

But, as a side note — perhaps that hasn’t been allowed for another reason (for those who don’t want to listen to God anyway). Maybe it’s because — then — women would be making more money than men....


36 posted on 05/09/2007 7:15:14 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Lusis

bump


37 posted on 05/09/2007 7:15:37 AM PDT by lesser_satan (FRED THOMPSON '08)
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To: Lusis

Prostition is not illegal in all states.


38 posted on 05/09/2007 7:16:42 AM PDT by i_dont_chat (I reserve to right to wink at anyone. You can take offense or not! Your choice.)
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To: Dr. Thorne
The men who wrote that Constitution would never allow legalized prostitution,

Actually they did. But why let little things like facts get in the way of a good rant.

L

39 posted on 05/09/2007 7:16:48 AM PDT by Lurker (Comparing 'moderate' islam to 'extremist' islam is like comparing small pox to plague.)
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To: FormerLib

I agree with you. When I was debating abortion with a lady, she said that a women should be able to do whatever she wants to do, with her body. I asked whether prostitution should be legal, and she said no. I said, “You said a woman should be able to do whatever she wants, with her body. You just contradicted yourself. You think it’s okay to murder a baby but not okay to have sex for money.” She said, “Abortion doesn’t kill a baby. It’s just a bunch of cells.” I might expect that from a lady who didn’t have kids, but her one year-old daughter was a few feet from us.


40 posted on 05/09/2007 7:18:00 AM PDT by PhilCollins
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To: Froufrou

ping


41 posted on 05/09/2007 7:18:40 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: The Louiswu
But slavery was ok?

Only someone ignorant of history could go down this road this way.

42 posted on 05/09/2007 7:18:47 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: Lusis

Legal to give away... illegal to sell.

How ridiculous.


43 posted on 05/09/2007 7:20:00 AM PDT by GovernmentIsTheProblem (Capitalism is the economic expression of individual liberty. Pass it on.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

The problem with pure libertarians is the fact that they get to the word ‘freedom’ and stop thinking right there. Pure libertarianism is selfishness with no thought about the effect on society.

For instance the claim that legalizing drugs will empty our prisons. The fact is that there are very few people in prison for simple drug use. Most are there for crimes they committed while under the influence of the drugs or in an attempt to get the drugs. If you legalize crack, you aren’t going to create model citizens who just happen to like crack. Instead you now have a guy who robs or steals to support his now legal habit.


44 posted on 05/09/2007 7:21:07 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: PhilCollins
She said, “Abortion doesn’t kill a baby. It’s just a bunch of cells.”

I'm not surprised that she refused to actually answer your question. I get the same result and always point out their evasion.

45 posted on 05/09/2007 7:21:10 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Dr. Thorne
It is illegal to pay for sex because our very existence as a nation relies on the Judeo-Christian values that formed us.

Judeo-Christian values "priestcraft". Though for good reason. To prevent the spread of STD's and since back in the day they had no birth control, well you know.

46 posted on 05/09/2007 7:25:04 AM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: cripplecreek
If you legalize crack, you aren’t going to create model citizens who just happen to like crack. Instead you now have a guy who robs or steals to support his now legal habit.

To be fair to the libertarians, if you legalize it, the price drops significantly. The low supply and risk associated with producing, transporting, and selling it is what keeps the price so high. If it becomes very inexpensive, then at least the crack user only has to steal to support a 10 dollar a day habit instead of 100 dollar a day habit. Many can come up with that money and won't have to steal at all. So, again, to be fair, the libertarians are right: legalizing drugs would reduce our prison population both for drug crimes and secondary crimes associated with them.
47 posted on 05/09/2007 7:26:05 AM PDT by JamesP81 (Isaiah 10:1 - "Woe to those who enact evil statutes")
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To: taxed2death
"Man has always paid for sex. One way or another."

Oh, and how do you explain Billy Priapus Clinton? He is reputed to have groped and serviced thousands of willing and unwilling femmes and still became very wealthy. The only female gropee we know he was forced to pay was named Jones (a somewhat expensive grope it was too!).

48 posted on 05/09/2007 7:26:20 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: ClearCase_guy

I see you use the big L when not taking Libertarians seriously. Most who consider themselves libertarians dont necessarily follow that party’s line.


49 posted on 05/09/2007 7:26:30 AM PDT by Vaquero (time again for the Crusades.)
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To: psychoknk
I'm in favor of legalizing prostitution, as it is one of those "victimless crimes." By making it illegal, it isn't like we are getting rid of it, and instead we are throwing away money at policing it. If prostitution was legal, then there would be fewer pimps, since a prostitute could go to the police for protection from Johns who beat them or don't pay (I'd wager this costs less than prosecuting and jailing them). Legislating morality will not make people any more moral, and only makes the government a bigger nanny state.

I would side with your position. Whose business is it if two adults agree to a money-for-sex exchange?

50 posted on 05/09/2007 7:27:51 AM PDT by Niteranger68 (Discrimination against Muslims is acceptable if we are to survive.)
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