Egyptians, not Greeks were true fathers of medicine

EurekaAlert.org ^ | 5-9-07 | Aeron Haworth

[Renfield]

Scientists examining documents dating back 3,500 years say they have found proof that the origins of modern medicine lie in ancient Egypt and not with Hippocrates and the Greeks.

The research team from the KNH Centre for Biomedical Egyptology at The University of Manchester discovered the evidence in medical papyri written in 1,500BC – 1,000 years before Hippocrates was born.

"Classical scholars have always considered the ancient Greeks, particularly Hippocrates, as being the fathers of medicine but our findings suggest that the ancient Egyptians were practising a credible form of pharmacy and medicine much earlier," said Dr Jackie Campbell.

"When we compared the ancient remedies against modern pharmaceutical protocols and standards, we found the prescriptions in the ancient documents not only compared with pharmaceutical preparations of today but that many of the remedies had therapeutic merit."

The medical documents, which were first discovered in the mid-19th century, showed that ancient Egyptian physicians treated wounds with honey, resins and metals known to be antimicrobial.

The team also discovered prescriptions for laxatives of castor oil and colocynth and bulk laxatives of figs and bran. Other references show that colic was treated with hyoscyamus, which is still used today, and that cumin and coriander were used as intestinal carminatives.

Further evidence showed that musculo-skeletal disorders were treated with rubefacients to stimulate blood flow and poultices to warm and soothe. They used celery and saffron for rheumatism, which are currently topics of pharmaceutical research, and pomegranate was used to eradicate tapeworms, a remedy that remained in clinical use until 50 years ago.

"Many of the ancient remedies we discovered survived into the 20th century and, indeed, some remain in use today, albeit that the active component is now produced synthetically," said Dr Campbell.

"Other ingredients endure and acacia is still used in cough remedies while aloes forms a basis to soothe and heal skin conditions."

Fellow researcher Dr Ryan Metcalfe is now developing genetic techniques to investigate the medicinal plants of ancient Egypt. He has designed his research to determine which modern species the ancient botanical samples are most related to.

"This may allow us to determine a likely point of origin for the plant while providing additional evidence for the trade routes, purposeful cultivation, trade centres or places of treatment," said Dr Metcalfe. "The work is inextricably linked to state-of-the-art chemical analyses used by my colleague Judith Seath, who specialises in the essential oils and resins used by the ancient Egyptians."

Professor Rosalie David, Director of the KNH Centre, said: "These results are very significant and show that the ancient Egyptians were practising a credible form of pharmacy long before the Greeks.

"Our research is continuing on a genetic, chemical and comparative basis to compare the medicinal plants of ancient Egypt with modern species and to investigate similarities between the traditional remedies of North Africa with the remedies used by their ancestors of 1,500 BC."

[Renfield]

Pingy....

[Red Badger]

So the Greeks were Hippocrites?.........

[Lokibob]

The Greeks invented sex, but the Italians modified it to involve women.

.....Bob

[Dustbunny]

Egyptians, not Greeks were true fathers of medicine

I thought that was always a known fact. We were taught that in school, course that was over 50 years ago when they actually taught the truth.

[Mad Dawg]

Bingo! It was almost exactly 50 years ago the Mr Knight of blessed memory - world’s best elementary school science teacher, pbuh, told us that the Egyptians did trepanning - taking out a chunk of broken skull so it wouldn’t impinge on the brain ... and that people survived it.

[AnAmericanMother]

Guess what!

The Neanderthals did trepanning, so did the ancient Peruvians, the Babylonians, and the ancient Celts.

Prehistoric skulls have been found in Germany not only with lovely neat round holes cut in them, but regrowth of the bone to fill the hole . . . which shows that the patients actually SURVIVED the operation.

They may have been trying to let "evil spirits" out, but in the case of a traumatic head injury it was the right thing to do.

[wideawake]

showed that ancient Egyptian physicians treated wounds with honey

If you want to make absolutely, positively sure that a wound will be infected - put some honey on it.

[Old_Mil]

...this joined a historic cohort of cures for diseases dating back to the Ancient Egyptians: pig's eyes, bat's blood, dog's urine and crocodile dung.

Sure, and the Sioux were on the verge of perfecting warp drive before Custer attacked.

[Old_Mil]

They may have been trying to let "evil spirits" out, but in the case of a traumatic head injury it was the right thing to do.

You are assuming that they performed such surgeries on people who actually had traumatic head injuries.

[AnAmericanMother]

Well, since a number of the skulls show obvious fractures and star-shaped impact patterns, yeah.

It was the idiots in 17th c. France and the Netherlands who recommended trepanning for all sorts of things having nothing to do with brain injury . . . . I think it was Prince William of Orange whose physician trepanned him something like 75 times. His skull must have looked like Swiss cheese.

Somewhere there's a Gillray cartoon of some poor soul being trepanned (without anesthetic.)

[blam]

"You are assuming that they performed such surgeries on people who actually had traumatic head injuries."

That was an ancient way of dealing with Democrats/socialists. They recognized it as a brain problem.

[Londo Molari]

That was well before islam took hold in Egypt. Now Egypt is a backward hellhole full of cult members.

[Mad Dawg]

If you want to make absolutely, positively sure that a wound will be infected - put some honey on it.

Ooh Ooh! I disagree! Do you have some backup? Here's why I disagree, and I odn't mean this to be conlcu=lusive or anything, I'm just lobbing something to you for you to hit it out of the park:

Honey is so supersaturted that as long as it is not diluted nothing can grow in it and somethings will have the H20 osmozed right the heck out of 'em.

The reason honey is not good for small human type personell is that it gets diluted in their tummies which are not sufficiently acidic to whomp the cooties, and then botulinus and other neat stuff which was just being dormant there can take off.

So they told me in the days when I had 18 hives.

[blam]

Making Holes in the Skull: Ancient Psychosurgery?

"From the Middle Ages well into the 18th century in Europe, trepanning was common as a medical procedure very much like bloodletting, i.e.; it had no medical usefulness per se. Repeated trepanning was common; for instance it is related that Prince Philip of Orange was trepanned 17 times by his physician. De La Touche, a French physician trepanned 52 times one of his patient, within a two-month period! Many physicians, from the Roman times on, also believed that the bone slabs (called rondelles) taken from trepanned skulls had therapeutic value when pulverized and mixed with other beverages given to the patients for several diseases. "

The Rondelles

[Alkhin]

There is a book I read once, and I need to get a copy again, because it is a very good look at the life of Luke - called “Dear and Glorious Physician” and Luke’s mentor is an Egyptian medicine man who teaches Luke much of what he knows. I almost more fascinated by the Egyptian than I was by Luke. I highly recommend this book.

[wideawake]

as long as it is not diluted nothing can grow in it

It attracts insects who want to eat it.

[AnAmericanMother]

Wow . . . we used to have five.

Now we live in a very shady hole by a creek, and the bees don't like it here.

So we set up a hobby hive for a friend who has a beautiful situation on a nice sunny hill. The hive is on a stand at the edge of a woodline right beside a beautiful open pasture. Tons of tulip poplar trees in the woods. The bees are happy little productive rascals. We got 18 full frames of honey off the hive last year . . .

[AnAmericanMother]

Looks like I had conflated a bunch of stuff in my memory bank . . . but one Orange looks pretty much like another . . .

[Mad Dawg]

My happiest year, 1983, was when I got over half a ton of honey! Tulip Poplar and white clover mostly.

[Mad Dawg]

Oh thou severe advanced case of dodo-ism! You put a dressing on it! Fer crine oud loud! You don't just slobber it on there! Sheesh!

Nurse, there's something wrong with the patient in 103!

What seems to be the problem!

Well, he's attracted a swarm!

You say that like it's a bad thing ....

[AnAmericanMother]

Wow! That was the original Bumper Crop.

(Where on earth did you put it all?)

Did you do any fancy comb, or just extract it all? I have some old-fashioned fancy comb frames stashed away somewhere, but I only used them once. Too fiddly and too much trouble, and I prefer the liquid honey anyhow.

The mites are quite a problem now, I think they reduce the hive yields. But we're using a Russian queen (boy was she pricey!) as well as the special bottom boards and the miticide in the off season. Seems to be working pretty well.

[lesser_satan]

LOL, Ouch!

[Mad Dawg]

I did some fancy comb but nobody bought it, and it's hard to keep.

I sold most of the honey. I bought about 20 5 gallon containers and a zillion bottles and honey bears. I had a wonderful place to work in an old school house on what has been a small plantation. My extractor was on one level so the honey flowed into this huge long tray thing that the uncapped combs dripped into. And the tray was high enough so that I could put a five gallon container under the spigot at the end. It was really fun. People who haven't farmed don't "get" the joy of the harvest. Surrounded by plenty! Wow! I probably lost money, but it was fun. I also made mead with honey and pear juice. It as actually good. Well, okay, drinkable. AWESOME bouquet!

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Renfield. Berosus, could be an opportunity to talk about the Jew from Byblos. :')

I've seen a note about the ancient Egyptian use of crocodile dung for eye infections -- there's a naturally occurring antibiotic in the dung. Think it was a footnote in de Selincourt's translation of Herodotus. I would guess that the properties were discovered because crocs' eyes stick up above the surface, it was magical thinking that happened to work out.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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[SunkenCiv]

Due to a network error, I had to start the message almost from scratch, and neglected to include you in the “to” field.

Berosus, could be an opportunity to talk about the Jew from Byblos. :’)

[CholeraJoe]

This has been known for a long time. When I was in medical school back when Nixon was in the White House, we learned about the Ebers papyrus and the Edmund Smith papyrus which describe detailed anatomy, clinical presentations of various disease states and surgical procedures. The former describes circulation of the blood by the heart some 3200 years before William Harvey's supposed "discovery" of the same.

[colorado tanker]

I don’t understand the breathless style of discovery in the article. Egyptian civilization was so much older than the Greek, of course they had medical practices predating the Greeks. Still, IMHO that doesn’t detract from Hippocrates’ accomplishments.

[AnAmericanMother]

Nothing like getting in food you "made all by yourself" . . . with the help of a few hundred thousand bees . . .

We just filled all the spaghetti pots in our friends' kitchen - 18 frames (two supers) kept both families in honey all last year. Didn't sell any - we ate it ALL! Yum!

We made mead years ago, and it was o.k. but nothing to write home about.

[Renfield]

“...My happiest year, 1983, was when I got over half a ton of honey! Tulip Poplar and white clover mostly....”

Lucky man! I’d love to have half-a-ton of honey. (I’d be in mead city....)

[Mad Dawg]

Recipes, give us recipes? Please?

I remember I did approx 2.5 gallons of pear juice, and honey cut with water, simmered before adding the pear juice, and i can’t remember that ratio of honey to water, then pitch with champagne yeast, let it ferment out, rack it three times at 6 month intervals (kept it in a cool cellar) then I put it in champagne bottles with like a half teaspoon of corn sugar for effervesences.

[Renfield]

That recipe sounds pretty good, if you used bittersharp perry pears. If you used regular table pears (Bartlett, etc), it was probably pretty bland.

Light honey by itself ferments to a product with very little flavor. It needs something sour or bitter (or, preferably, both) to add flavor, body and mouthfeel. Tannins provide the latter (as well as certain proteins, but those are hard to add to mead). I have a friend who made some very good mead about 10 years ago, just by adding fresh lime juice to his honey before pitching the yeast. However, I suggest you investigate a drink called metheglin. It’s made from a mixture of apple juice and honey, and therefore, is a cross between mead and cider. The best metheglin will employ juice from apples with high tannin and acid contents; crabapples are very good for this puropose (in particular, the Hewes Virginia Crab and Whitney crab are stellar). My forte is beer, not mead (although this is largely due to lack of access to affordable honey), so I won’t give you any specific recipes, but if you look around on the internet I’m sure you’ll find many. You might also wish to join CAMRA (the Campaign for Real Ale), which has many members who also appreciate mead and cider; rubbing elbows with CAMRA folks will put you onto many leads.

Good luck to you.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

placemark for later.

[BJClinton]

Just...damn.

[Mad Dawg]

This was back in the poverty-stricken, rugged, livin’ in the serious country days. The pears were windfalls from our neighbors huge venerable pear tree. This was just an opportunistic use of honey and pear juice. We weren’t going for great, we were going for tipple.

[null and void]

If you want to make absolutely, positively sure that a wound will be infected - put some honey on it.

Wrong. Honey contains many powerful antibacterials. Just why did you think it doesn't spoil?

[WLR]

“I don’t understand the breathless style of discovery in the article. Egyptian civilization was so much older than the Greek, of course they had medical practices predating the Greeks. Still, IMHO that doesn’t detract from Hippocrates’ accomplishments.”

Hey DAT yes you do... it is all about we of the West are Crap and the Islamofacist East is great..Actual historical timeliness and any relationship to contemporary Islam not required.

DAT frame of reference only.

Same principle applied to the Soviets and their “invincible T72” “http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHWHjK2VsUo
“Target Cease Fire”
lol

W

[colorado tanker]

I didn't take away from this that "Afrocentric history" nonsense, but you may be right.

DAT

Smile when you say that, pahdnuh. :-))

[aristotleman]

Greece is arguably not Western.

Ancient Egypt had nothing to do with Islam.

[WLR]

How does a DAT know he ran into a team of Highly Trained Operators?

By the number of wires in his tracks at the next at halt check...

W

[WLR]

Ancient Egypt had nothing to do with Islam.

Correct and the Coptic Christians Living in Egypt predate Islam by 650 Years.

Further, Most of the Iraqis are really Chaldean and Assyiran Christians forced under pain of death to convert to Islam long ago.. That is why they don’t look like your typical Arabs..In Fact there is fairly large Group of “Muslims” Just on the edge of Southern Kurdistan who were Jews forcibly converted. They with few exceptions have always lived peaceably with the Chaldean and Assyrian Christians still remaining in Iraq.

Your comments on Greece not being Western..

I am sure they will be as surprised to hear it as I..

W

[WLR]

Ancient Egypt had nothing to do with Islam.

Correct and the Coptic Christians Living in Egypt predate Islam by 650 Years.

Further, Most of the Iraqis are really Chaldean and Assyrian Christians forced under pain of death to convert to Islam long ago.. That is why they don’t look like your typical Arabs..In Fact there is fairly large Group of “Muslims” Just on the edge of Southern Kurdistan who were Jews forcibly converted. They with few exceptions have always lived peaceably with the Chaldean and Assyrian Christians still remaining in Iraq.

Your comments on Greece not being Western..

I am sure they will be as surprised to hear it as I..

W

[aristotleman]

Greece is more eastern than western. It’s the crossroads between worlds. (Eastern not meaning Islamic, of course)

[apro]

They call this a “new discrovery”? Pathetic. The Greeks themselves state their knowledge on medicine and other aspects of their culture was derived from the Egyptians and other ME cultures. How stupid are these researchers? I think they are too many such “scholars” out there nowadays who want their names to be claimed in fame somehow and history books to remember them as one of the few who ‘discovered new evidence’ about ancient civilizations.

[apro]

"Greece is arguably not Western"

That's funny given Greece is the original location of those who called themselves "Westerners". Who do you think were the first "Western Europeans" and why do you think ancient Greeks called everything East of the Aegean Sea "Anatoli" which is Greek for East and everything West of the Adriatic and North of Illyrian 'lands of the barbarians'? Also do know what the original ancient borders of Europe were? 'Cause knowing the answer to this question means knowing the answers to the other two. I'll give you another hint: they stopped at the Ionian Sea, Aegean Sea, Crete and Thrace.

[apro]

You are confusing Eastern European of whom share similarities based upon the fact they are mostly Orthodox Christians with the proporganda of Western Europeans during the big split of the Empire. You are correct that Eastern Europe has influence from the "orient", a term by the way given to Eastern Europe during the big rift between the two churches by Western Europe, but that does not mean their ideology and culture is not Western. Also trying to claim Greece/Greeks as "Eastern" is pretty funny given not even in ancient times did Greeks see themselves as "Eastern" that is why they called and still call everything East of the Aeagean Sea ANATOLI=East; Greeks also had and still have another term for ANATOLI and that is Mikra Asia translation=Minor Asia. In no time, either ancient, medieval or modern did Greeks ever call or view the Greek mainland as being part of the East.

[longtermmemmory]

The issue with the Greeks is they pushed thought into science and the scientific method.

It went from random practices that were done for some voodoo reason into asking WHY should we be doing this.

Cause and effect,
empirical observations,
that sort of thing.

Not letting out the evil spirits stuff...

[Grizzled Bear]

I think it was Prince William of Orange whose physician trepanned him something like 75 times.

---

He needed that like he needed a hole in the head!

[Renfield]

“...In no time, either ancient, medieval or modern did Greeks ever call or view the Greek mainland as being part of the East....”

That is how you view it, internally. However, as a non-Greek, this is how I see it:
Greek music sounds a lot like Turkish music.
Greek food is a lot like middle-eastern food.
The ancient Hellenic custom of keeping the wife a virtual prisoner in her own home, is most definitely middle-eastern.

When we speak of Greece, in a political sense, being the foundation of Western thought, we really are referring to the city-state of Athens. Most of Greece, in Hellenic times, was not in any sense, a Democracy or Republic. Liberty, as we know it in the West, didn’t exist in most of Greece, throughout history.

Greece always looked to the East. Alexander didn’t even point his nose toward Italy.

[aristotleman]

Greek history/mentality, has not much to do with Central European or Western mentality. They are lands of the barbarians. Eastern is a definition that depends on where you stand. Greeks would be offended if equated to westerners (barbarians).

AM