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Mitt Romney against 'Big Love'[troubled by Mormonism's polygamous past]
people.monstersandcritics.com ^ | 5-11-2007 | Stone Martindale May

Posted on 05/11/2007 10:12:33 AM PDT by bedolido

Mitt Romney is said to be troubled by Mormonism's polygamous past.

No mentions however about that whole black people being directly descended from Cain thing.

Brigham Young, the 2nd Prophet of the Mormon sect said: "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."


Former Governor of Massachusetts and Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney speaks at the Republican's Abraham Lincoln Unity Dinner, 14 April, 2007, in Des Moines, Iowa. Ten republican presidential candidates spoke to more than 1,000 supporters at the dinner.

(Excerpt) Read more at people.monstersandcritics.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: against; elections; mormon; mormonism; past; polygamous; romney; troubled
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/11/2007 10:12:37 AM PDT by bedolido
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To: bedolido

I’ve seen “Big Love” on HBO. I don’t think they mention being Mormons specifically, though it’s set in Utah and they talk about the “principle” of polygamy on the show.

I think the Mormom church has banned polygamy. But there are people in an offshoot religion from the Mormon church who still believe in polygamy and some live openly that way.


2 posted on 05/11/2007 10:17:44 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I can barely afford the one I have.


3 posted on 05/11/2007 10:24:04 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (No more rhymes, and I mean it! ..Anybody want a peanut.....)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

In the south, we had black methodist churches, black baptist churches etc. They never integrated and still are much separated. It seems to have been a pronounced cultural pattern. I don’t think the Mormons were alone in it.


4 posted on 05/11/2007 10:26:44 AM PDT by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: bedolido

The site linked to is misleading in the extreme. Joseph Smith was against slavery. Like most 19th century Americans he didn’t believe in “race-mixing” either and wanted Blacks and Whites to remain separate, but at one point Smith was in favor of civic equality for Black and White and that went far, far beyond the mentality of his era.


5 posted on 05/11/2007 10:28:56 AM PDT by x
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To: showme_the_Glory

been married for 37 years to the same woman.... she tells me I’m happy... I can’t afford not to agree with her...


6 posted on 05/11/2007 10:30:45 AM PDT by bedolido (I can forgive you for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing me to kill your sons)
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To: AmericanMade1776; bcbuster; bethtopaz; Bluestateredman; Capt. Cox; cardinal4; carton253; cgk; ...

Ping!


7 posted on 05/11/2007 10:34:14 AM PDT by TAdams8591 (Mitt Romney for President '08)
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To: x

Smith also lusted after his neighbors wife and daughters thereby “inventing’ another scam for his flock of gullible
followers, that of “ plural marriages’. The Mormons were founded on shaky ground, a swamp actually....with rituals based on Masonic rites....the whole religion is a sham, bar none.
By the way, Emma Smith,his widow, after ol’ Joe’s killing married a drinking, smoking, cussing so and so....so much for a ‘true’ religion...ever his widow didn’t have much truck for it.


8 posted on 05/11/2007 10:36:35 AM PDT by Duffboy
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To: x

“The site linked to is misleading in the extreme. Joseph Smith was against slavery. Like most 19th century Americans he didn’t believe in “race-mixing” either and wanted Blacks and Whites to remain separate, but at one point Smith was in favor of civic equality for Black and White and that went far, far beyond the mentality of his era.”

Absolutely. The Mormons’ abolitionist views in the 19th century largely contributed to the hatred and persecution they faced in Missouri.


9 posted on 05/11/2007 10:37:32 AM PDT by VegasBaby
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To: Duffboy

Shouldn’t moderators control this kind of garbage post on this forum, or are Mormons ok to attack as accepted practice? I certainly wouldn’t describe mainstream christian evalengists or Catholics with such rhetoric even though they have many weaknesses in their beliefs. So my question is who is fair game to attack like this?

Although, I guess I would agree with this post if it was describing Militant Islam, Mohammed and so forth, but they are US enemies.


10 posted on 05/11/2007 10:45:49 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Count of Monte Logan
Shouldn’t moderators control this kind of garbage post on this forum?

I guess you missed this article posted by a mormon?

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They?

11 posted on 05/11/2007 10:51:42 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Count of Monte Logan

Historical facts are “ garbage’?
The facts surrounding the founding of our nation, using your weak logic, are garbage.
By the way, tell us where the missing 116 pages of the “ Book of Mormon” are. Did the wife of Martin Harris throw them in the fire when she was told he was financing the printing?
Enquiring minds want to know.


12 posted on 05/11/2007 10:54:15 AM PDT by Duffboy
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To: bedolido; Reaganesque; Unmarked Package
No mentions however about that whole black people being directly descended from Cain thing.

Mitt has at other times talked about past racism within the Mormon Church. I believe I remember reading that he was actively involved in the process of changing the racist doctrines back in the 1970's. But don't quote me on that. I'll let some of my fellow Romney supporters who are Mormon chime in, since they're better informed on this than am I, as I'm not Mormon.

13 posted on 05/11/2007 10:56:50 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: x

Yes Smith was far advanced, looking through the Urim and Thurim seer stones to decipher the Golden tablets, until they disappeared and he was forced to translate through his hat looking at the black rock he’d pulled up from a nearby well.

His translation of the Egyptian hieroglyphics were also beyond his time, so far beyond that it turned out he’d misrepresented them as ancient biblical books instead of the petty lists of Egyptian funery gods they turned out to be.

And he certainly showed his abilities with his signature on a three dollar bill his unchartered bank put out, until it collapsed with a trail of fraud.

But hey, Smith was ahead of his times in opposing slavery, that’s why you needed that special revelation in 1978.


14 posted on 05/11/2007 10:58:19 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: greyfoxx39

As a Mormon, I really not a big fan of Mitt Romney personally, or even Orin Hatch, and certainly Harry Reid makes me physically ill to listen too. I’m probably leaning towards Rudi, Thompson or a Condi Rice if that were possible.

But, Mitt’s religion however is a great one. Most posts I see on this forum about Mormons are about as accurate as DU guys posting information about Freepers, and even the DUers show better class at times than the anti-Mormon posts I see routinely here. They are either embittered ex-Mormons with an ax to grind for some reason, or persons with no real substantive knowledge of the religion than what they here on the TV or something.


15 posted on 05/11/2007 11:02:29 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: FastCoyote

Since you are attacking Mormons pretty severely here, can I just counter that by saying you have no idea what you are talking about?

Shall we investigate your beliefs and see how sophisticated your understanding of the nature of the God head(assuming you are christian) is? Most evangelists are great people, but their relgious understanding I find is routlinely entry level. Simple is good, but entry level is not the same thing(it’s a lack of understanding of their own beliefs). If you look at the 13 articles of faith that we believe as Mormmon(i.e., Christians), it would be hard for you to disagree with any of the 13, if you even understand much of what Christianity in the bible really is.


16 posted on 05/11/2007 11:11:36 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Count of Monte Logan

Remember Mark Hoffman?
He had the church elders buying up anything negative about
the founding of Mormonism and Joe Smith in particular , never to be seen by again. Problem was, Hoffman was counterfeiting all the so-called documents.
I have no use for any organized religion especially one founded by a charlatan. He preyed on weak minds just as many religions do....Jim Jones, anyone?


17 posted on 05/11/2007 11:14:41 AM PDT by Duffboy
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To: curiosity

“Mitt has at other times talked about past racism within the Mormon Church. I believe I remember reading that he was actively involved in the process of changing the racist doctrines back in the 1970’s.”

I don’t know what Romney specifically did in the 70s to address the issue, but he has repeatedly discussed how thrilled he was when the priesthood was extended to Blacks in 1978. I know that his father, George Romney, marched for civil rights with Martin Luther King, Jr., and Mitt frequently mentions how much he considers his father to be a hero to him.


18 posted on 05/11/2007 11:14:46 AM PDT by VegasBaby
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To: VegasBaby

Mitt has no role on doctrine of the church.. again, just DU-type characterization level. I don’t see any posts here about Mormons that show any thought.


19 posted on 05/11/2007 11:22:10 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Duffboy

I’m sure you are a great person, but you are shooting an airball about the LDS church.

Jim Jones <> Joseph Smith. That’s like comparing George Washington with Stalin.


20 posted on 05/11/2007 11:24:58 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Count of Monte Logan

The “ Jim Jones’ thing was a cheap shot...for which I apologize.
However, if one considers “ The Mountain Meadows Massacre” it isn’t that far fetched after all. Some violent acts are religiously oriented.
My point is, “ gullible people’ being taken in by scammers.
I use only my personal knowledge of historical facts combined with my own opinion....sometimes I go a little too far.


21 posted on 05/11/2007 11:34:02 AM PDT by Duffboy
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To: Duffboy

We have 160,000 fantastic soldiers in Iraq... really I consider these the best people of the US population. But even within this great military organization, there are a few bad apples. Mormons have had some, even chosen leaders can fall.

The LDS church economic power is successful in the same way that the US economy is successful. I think the fruits there tell the story best. If you look at Harry Reid and judge Mormons, then I would cringe. But Harry probably has good points I don’t see (???).


22 posted on 05/11/2007 11:38:15 AM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: FastCoyote
LDS (Mormon) war fatalities
Deseret Morning News
Photo (Deseret Morning News graphic)

23 posted on 05/11/2007 11:44:14 AM PDT by nowandlater
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To: Count of Monte Logan
I don’t see any posts here about Mormons that show any thought.

Count, you may as well get used to it. Every time there is a lamestream media article about Mitt and his Mormon religion (even though they refuse to discuss the religious leanings of any other candidate) there is going to be a steady stream of posts from either side, defending their particular faith traditions.

As an atheist, I find them rather tiresome, and do not look forward to the next nine months. By that time, I think Mitt will have dropped out (I really don't see him getting any more than about 20 percent of the vote in any primary or caucus), but there will be a longstanding feud between many otherwise cordial Freeper factions.

24 posted on 05/11/2007 11:44:20 AM PDT by hunter112
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To: nowandlater

I guess in some people’s mind none of these guys, had they lived, would not be worthy to be President of the United States because of their religious beliefs. I believe otherwise. These Mormons were willing to die for this country that is the true test of being worthy.


25 posted on 05/11/2007 11:50:05 AM PDT by nowandlater
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To: Count of Monte Logan
When politicians, the press, or anti-Mormons throw mud at the Church, think of it as a backhanded compliment. It is an indication that they take us seriously.

As my mission president used to say, "No one crosses the street to kick a dead dog."

26 posted on 05/11/2007 11:58:43 AM PDT by Logophile
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To: nowandlater

R.I.P. God Bless those heroes. May their families and loved ones know that they fought and died for the greatest nation and bringer of freedom and liberty in the history of the world! Well done, good and faithful servants! Long may she wave!!


27 posted on 05/11/2007 12:09:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Nancy Pelosi: The Babbling Bolshevik Babushka from the City by the Bay.)
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To: Count of Monte Logan
Most posts I see on this forum about Mormons are about as accurate as DU guys posting information about Freepers, and even the DUers show better class at times than the anti-Mormon posts I see routinely here. They are either embittered ex-Mormons with an ax to grind for some reason, or persons with no real substantive knowledge of the religion than what they here on the TV or something.

Then you don't read MOST posts about mormonism.

They are either embittered ex-Mormons with an ax to grind for some reason

Ah, yes, the old "discredit the messenger" tactic.

Did you even read the article I provided the link for in post #11? There are many, many "substantive" posts there that belie your slam comparing them to DU posts.

28 posted on 05/11/2007 12:10:42 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: Count of Monte Logan; MHGinTN; Colofornian; colorcountry; Abigail Adams
Most evangelists are great people, but their relgious understanding I find is routlinely entry level. Simple is good, but entry level is not the same thing(it’s a lack of understanding of their own beliefs). If you look at the 13 articles of faith that we believe as Mormmon(i.e., Christians), it would be hard for you to disagree with any of the 13, if you even understand much of what Christianity in the bible really is.

Ping to the uninformed Christians. You gotta see this post.

29 posted on 05/11/2007 12:25:05 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: bedolido

Those are not quotes from Brigham Young, this post and that source is full of falsehoods.

There are alot of misleading, and false rumors about the Mormon church. If you want the true facts about the Mormon church visit http://www.mormon.org

The Mormon church does not practice Polygamy it was banned in 1890! If you do practice Polygamy you will be excommunicated, and those small sects who do practice Polygamy and call themselves the “FLDS” have no connections to the Mormon church. The Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley has even said they shouldn’t even be called “Fundementalist Mormons”. They are in no way Mormon. Their practices go against the Mormon.


30 posted on 05/11/2007 12:26:19 PM PDT by ThatsClassy
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To: bedolido

I’m 3 years behind you and I do know what you mean.


31 posted on 05/11/2007 12:32:14 PM PDT by showme_the_Glory (No more rhymes, and I mean it! ..Anybody want a peanut.....)
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To: ThatsClassy; All

too bad there’s been so much Mormon-bashing lately (I’ve done my share)... we should all be pulling together.

when I posted this thread it wasn’t to bash Mormons... it was to let people know that there are attacks against this candidate that are grossly unfounded.

I live in Idaho (Utah’s little brother) and there are many Mormons here. Good people...


32 posted on 05/11/2007 12:36:34 PM PDT by bedolido (I can forgive you for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing me to kill your sons)
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To: ThatsClassy; All

too bad there’s been so much Mormon-bashing lately (I’ve done my share)... we should all be pulling together.

when I posted this thread it wasn’t to bash Mormons... it was to let people know that there are attacks against this candidate that are grossly unfounded.

I live in Idaho (Utah’s little brother) and there are many Mormons here. Good people...


33 posted on 05/11/2007 12:38:15 PM PDT by bedolido (I can forgive you for killing my sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing me to kill your sons)
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To: nowandlater

Should I list now the number of Lutherans killed in action? Mormons believe all other Christians are apostates, so it is pretty lame to be claiming victimhood.

Besides, who am I to call crazy a religion based on a book transcribed by a guy looking through magic crystals into his hat?

Urrim and Thurrim


34 posted on 05/11/2007 1:17:32 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

YOu need to study the bible... prophets of the old testament. Exodus 28:30

30. You shall place the Urim and the Tummim into the choshen of judgment so that they will be over Aaron’s heart when he comes before the Lord, and Aaron will carry the judgment of the children of Israel over his heart before the Lord at all times.


35 posted on 05/11/2007 1:21:15 PM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: nowandlater

If this is the sort of tactic you Mormonism Apologists intend to use to squelch discussion on Romney’s religion, you folks will be the easy dupes for DNC exploitation. NONE has condemned Mormon individuals, it is the religion of Mormonism, proven to be the fruit of a deceitful liar con artist, Joseph Smith, that is the issue. When you use tactics like you just did, you prove your deceit know no bounds in pursuit of power. Consider what spirit must be the source of such deceitful tactics, nowandlater. Don’t sully the honor of those brave Soldiers and Sailors by using them to deceive people by implying thier ultimate sacrifice to protect our collective freedoms is somehow a pawn for political empowerment. You won’t shame anyone into voting for Romney, you will only disgust people reagrding Mormonism Apologists’ tactics.


36 posted on 05/11/2007 1:42:59 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

As a Mormon, I don’t support Romney (or Harry Reid) for public office.

I like Rudi or Thompson.


37 posted on 05/11/2007 2:00:03 PM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: MHGinTN

Ok, your logic is:

Don’t point to others when defending someone else.

Then you say:

Mitt is not qualified because of Joseph Smith.

Isn’t that pointing to someone else?

P.S. Mormonism has wonderful fruits and Joseph Smith was not a con artist. Please talk with love, not with anger.


38 posted on 05/11/2007 2:04:46 PM PDT by nowandlater
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To: Dilbert San Diego
I'm pretty sure they do mention Mormons. I recall the oldest daughter and a friend specifically mentioning being a Mormon.

I love the show and can't wait for the new season to begin. Still trying to decide if the show is a backhanded slap at Mormonism or drama-based satire.

39 posted on 05/11/2007 2:07:08 PM PDT by rintense (Rudy is nothing more than a Dem with an R behind his name. I'm 4 Thompson!)
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To: nowandlater

That was an amazing twist you put on that! You sully the memory of brave Soldiers by using them to play empowerment and squelch discussion, but you claim it’s my fault you do this? Do you and other Mormonism Apologists take classes in how to spin and mischaracterize or is it natural for you?


40 posted on 05/11/2007 2:07:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: bedolido

Back in Brigham’s day, some other churches would look the other way if a slave owner used his black female slaves for his pleasure. Marriage between blacks and whites was illegal, and when you put Brigham’s comment into context there he is saying that any man who rapes or fornicates with a black woman will suffer death, spiritual death as in separation from God. I fail to see how standing up for the chastity of black women is racist.

In that day and age other churches debated among themselves if blacks had a soul and if they could be saved, Joseph Smith declared they did have souls and could be saved. Brigham Young also said “For their abuse of [the Black African] race, the whites will be cursed, unless they repent.” Mormons were also against slavery, didn’t prevent blacks from joining the church or separate them out into their own congregations, and the Book of Mormon says “Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins” (Jacob 3:9). It was not Church doctrine that blacks were inferior in any way, representatives of Satan, or anything like that.

Mormon leaders were ahead of their time when it comes to racial issues, even though in some cases they might not measure up to today’s standards. This is no different than parts of the Bible where prophets indicate they thought of the earth as flat, with the sun going around it.

If you really want to insist on using a 21st century standard on them though, you must also use it on Christ who would also fail the test:

Matt 15
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.


41 posted on 05/11/2007 2:09:12 PM PDT by Grig
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To: MHGinTN

I have no anger for you. I don’t understand your reaction. My point is solid. In fact one of those soldiers’ parents are campaigning for Romney in Utah. Does that “Sully” his memory?

Look the majority of these guys were Mormons. My point is the ultimate test of worthiness of a religion to be able to serve this country is to die. We don’t have a religous test for this and we shouldn’t have one for President.


42 posted on 05/11/2007 2:19:26 PM PDT by nowandlater
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To: ThatsClassy
The Mormon church does not practice Polygamy it was banned in 1890!

Why would Mitt be ashamed of that? THe Mormon Church changed its attitude on polygamy. So did the Hebrews. Things change.

43 posted on 05/11/2007 2:33:28 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Crazies to my left. Wimps to my right. BTW, Muslims ain't "Immigrants." They's Colonists.)
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To: nowandlater
You tried to exploit the honor of those fallen Soldiers/Sailors as a means to squelch discussion of Mormonism ... and you're still doing it, my FRiend.

Mitt Romney is not disqualified for the presidency because of his religious beliefs. In fact, if his faith's doctrines are compared to his record in Massatwosh!ts, he shows up more as a moderate compromiser than a faithful follower of the faith he espouses!

In my opinion he is currently disqualified for the nomination because of the exposed negatives the thoroughly septic DNC will exploit. Now, if it happens that guys like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh can so expose the bigotry of not voting for Romney because of his religious affiliation, then he will again be a good candidate for the office and leadership of the Presidency. But you realize that his conservatism will be the hate focus for DNC goons and they will exploit even killing alive unborn children to empower their political agenda, so Romney's religious beliefs will be fair game to them.

A few weeks ago, I thought the bigotry would be a small issue, but it has become evident that when defenders of your religion contend over the beliefs, the negatives rise sharply, causing disgust and confusion. THAT is something the DNC rats will exploit to the max in ways you cannot even imagine, with sycophancy from their whores in the media and from directions you could never imagine as shot lines.

44 posted on 05/11/2007 2:38:23 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: nowandlater

Yes, as a Mormon though, Mitt fails policy and basic conservative tests.. Like his “deathbed repentence” approach to abortion. I don’t understand how a regular, active Mormon could be pro-choice at all. How can you pass a temple-recommend test if you are pro-choice?

Sorry to knock him down, my sister is a big fund raiser for Mitt in California, but I have no clue why.


45 posted on 05/11/2007 2:40:13 PM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Count of Monte Logan
I like Rudi

That preference alone casts doubt on your judgment.

46 posted on 05/11/2007 2:42:38 PM PDT by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: bedolido

This “church” thinks Blacks are Canaanites, which is FRAUD! Blacks are Cushites, Mizraimites or Hamites. This “church” is racist to the max. It makes the KKK look wonderful.


47 posted on 05/11/2007 2:50:23 PM PDT by X-Ecutioner
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To: WFTR

I think Rudi is way better than Mitt.. I think he’s closer to Reagan. I see him as a good national security leader.

Sorry you have bad feelings about Rudi. (I also had a cat named Rudi years ago.. who had a broken tail.. not sure if that has impacted my judgement any)


48 posted on 05/11/2007 2:50:23 PM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: X-Ecutioner

Again, this is like a DUer type post. It’s the most Chritian church in the world, and as far as racism, your analysis is just a joke.

KKK <> Mormon Church

Mormon Church = a beautiful christian relgion parallel in success in every day with the United States over the last 150 years.


49 posted on 05/11/2007 2:52:51 PM PDT by Count of Monte Logan
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To: Count of Monte Logan

This church is NOT Christian! Its racism is up there with the Quran and how it views Blacks...


50 posted on 05/11/2007 2:55:31 PM PDT by X-Ecutioner
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