Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 05/12/2007 6:10:08 PM PDT by Hadean
Cannabis smokers are unwittingly funding Islamist extremists linked to terror attacks in Spain, Morocco and Algeria, according to a joint investigation by the Spanish and French secret services. The finding will be seized on both by campaigners for a harsher clampdown on cannabis and by those who argue that legalisation is the only way to end a petty dealing trend that is dragging growing numbers of teenagers into crime. The investigation by the Centro Nacional de Inteligencia and the Renseignements Generaux was launched after Spanish police found that the Islamists behind the March 2004 bombings in Madrid bought their explosives from former miners in return for blocks of hashish. The bombings claimed 191 lives.
Spain's role as a transit point for drugs was highlighted last week when Madrid hosted the US Drug Enforcement Agency's annual conference. Experts heard not only that North African hashish was funding terrorism in Europe, but also that West Africa had become a new hub for South American cocaine shipments bound for Europe. Morocco is the world's leading cannabis exporter, with an annual crop estimated to be worth at least £2bn. Last month, the Moroccan navy seized three tonnes of Europe-bound hashish off the Mediterranean port of Nador. The same week, Spanish coastguards seized 4.3 tonnes of Moroccan resin off Ibiza.
(Excerpt) Read more at observer.guardian.co.uk ...
Clearly, Brits who feel they must indulge themselves should get it from California or Hawaii..
They need to grow their own. It’s not hard.
Glad it’s not coffee.
I’m addicted.
<...according to a joint investigation by the Spanish and French secret services>
Joint investigation??? Must they??
LOL!
Shows this is a small world, after all,,,we really are inter-connected. And to think I thought:
“Cannabis smokers are unwittingly funding Islamist extremists linked to terror attacks in Spain, Morocco and Algeria,”
was just when they donated to moveon.
The problem with marijuana, from the perspective of the WOD crowd, is that any Joe can grow it in their backyard, in most of the world. There are zero taxes to be paid on such a crop, and big booze doesn’t like the competition. We learned our lesson with booze (re: prohibition), and yes booze causes plenty of problems, but it appears that the cure is worse than the disease where dope is concerned (imo).
Well it really is an easy plant to grow and grow well.
I used to smoke and almost never paid for it because it was easier to simply grow my own. I could give lessons on growing it.
I’m about as far from libertarian as I can get but I tend to think it should be decriminalized and regulated like alcohol but only for personal use.
BTW I don’t feel that way about any other drug.
That got be THE statement on this THREAD ROFL
Personally I have always felt that we should drop Napalm on the Poppy fields of Afghanistan and South Ameirca.
If you want to win a real war on drugs you have to fight it like a war.
A little trivia bit is that Mexican banditos of yore were profound marijuana smokers, when they could not get the foul tasting fermented drink called “Pulce”. It even figures in to the song, “La Cucaracha”, which was about Poncho Villa’s model T Ford:
La cucaracha, la cucaracha
Ya no puede caminar
Porque le falta, porque no tiene
Marihuana que fumar.
English
The cockroach, the cockroach
Can’t walk anymore
Because it lacks, because it doesn’t have,
Marijuana to smoke.
Eventually beer arrived in Mexico, and changed everything.
Well, lots of things.
I agree with legalizing pot for the reasons mentioned above, but I beg all my fello freepers not to smoke it. It does have long term affects and you might end up sounding like Chong.
Filling up your gas tank has a more clear line between your pocket book and terrorism.
It really doesn't matter. If there's something out there that's corrupt and a money-maker, bet that Islam is in the middle of it. Gun-running, drug-running, arson, rape, murder and on and on and on, it's legal is you're a muslim. Most immoral bunch it's even possible to imagine.
After our entire race is obliterated from the planet in a horiffic nuclear and biological exchange, the lowly cannibis sativa will still thrive along streams and creeks and our star will continue to burn for a few billion more years.
I agree. That's the Dutch model. Strangely, all of those grow ops that supply the "coffee shops" are illegal, while the coffee shops have some specific legal exemptions. But the Dutch people are able to grow and possess personal amounts.
BTW I don’t feel that way about any other drug.
Ditto.
Relatively little Marijuana is imported here, I believe.
With the quality of domestic down to a fine science and the fact that marijuana is California’s #2 cash crop (behind grapes), it makes little sense to attempt a border run with easy to detect bales of weed when a lb of cocaine yields many times the profit.
Since all U.S. cocaine is imported (and I’m talking tons), how hard would it be to smuggle a terrorist or one truckload of WMD across the border? I’m not sure how much herion from Afghanistan enters the Country daily through our seaports, but I know who profits from it.
I doubt curtailing pot use will bring Al Qaida to their financial knees.
NATO or the US or someone could buy the entire Afghan opium crop for less than $2 billion, which would remove 60 percent or more of the world's opium supply.
Of course the upstream, post-refining economic impact would reach into the hundreds of $ billions, not to mention the destabilization of organized criminals, terrorist organizations, and corrupt narco-economies (e.g. Pakistan).
Given that this would work, and that it's relatively cheap, you have to wonder why it's not been done.
Count on me to argue the later opinion but beyond that, as I've said before, outlawing a substance causes its value and price to increase a hundredfold on the black market. That brings organized crime into the, artificially created, lucrative illegal business. And of course, Islamic terrorists are drawn to and delight in using our American foibles and vices against us.
Stop the War on Drugs and the amount of money the criminal charges and terrorists gain will drop drastically - forcing them out of business.
All that is left to do then, is create treatment programs with an advertising campaign to bring all substance abusers forward for treatment. They would be much more likely to seek and accept help without fear if imprisonment or worse. The drug problem would be solved within a year or two.
That probably will not happen because law enforcement agents, equipment suppliers, lobbyists, and politicians get wealthy and have lauded careers from a Drug War that they know must never be won or they will lose their government subsidized gravy train.
They even get to take vacations to Madrid for the US Drug Enforcement Agency's annual conference. That's my tax money providing the impetus for the next eighty-eight year old woman to be murdered by Drug Warriors in her home.
We have a War on Islamic Terrorists to fight, and this War on American Citizens only detracts and distracts us from what should be our primary focus.
Our drug war should be fought at the borders in my opinion. Obviously it isn’t quite the same as terrorism because we don’t really need to fight an offensive war on drugs.
a JOINT INVESTIGATION? that’s too cute.
Its bad enough that we buy their oil (or, oil being fungible, our demand affects world prices, I should say). This is a simple easy fix, which would reduce the number of non-violent criminals in our overcrowded jails. Yes, there would be problems with people driving stoned. Better to deal with addiction as a medical problem, than a criminal one, imo. And no, I certainly don’t recommend using dope.
Not clear to me we need to fight this war at all.
I've seen reports fairly often and fairly recently of Mexicans being nabbed with multi-hundred pound loads (not to mention the case of the imprisoned Border Patrol officers, which started with a pot bust).
But you're right about most of the supply coming from domestic grow ops. Many of those are now going inside rented houses with pirated electric splices, such as the $20 million operation in LA that involved just a handful of people and 5 houses. They were growing the high-octane stuff, $2,000 a pound and more.
I was reading about the heroin problem just the other day, and only a very small amount of Afghan heroin (better named "Pakistani heroin") reaches the U.S. Most of what appears in the U.S. is South American or Asian.
This article is about the UK, and I'd say that very little of the American drug supply comes from Southwest Asia or the Middle East.
No problem. Legalize it and the money will flow to the growers, maybe a little tax to the govt. You just have to decide which is worse ... someone getting a little high or someone blowing up trains and beheading people. I know it’s a tough choice.
“but it appears that the cure is worse than the disease where dope is concerned (imo).’
The disease, in this case, is murderous drug lords, alleged funding of terrorism, and the destruction of liberty WOD entails. The cure is minor in comparison.
However, in terms of its immediate danger to the user, as opposed to alcohol, THC is not going to cause as many problems as alcohol. Alcohol is a poison and causes a lot of agression and associated anti-social or dangerous to society behaviors. THC users get mellow and/or hungry and aren't prone to fighting and/or overly machismo displays. If I recall correctly from my bio-psych classes, the brain has evolved receptor sites that are keyed to the THC molecule.
I'm not sure what that means or what the implications are, but it's odd that something as natural as a plant that anyone can grow in their backyard garden is something that merits so many battles in the WOD. It's not that big of a deal, especially when compared to alcohol. But then, the WOD isn't about sanity.
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Such an argument displays for all to see the illogical nature of government itself:
If it weren't for prohibition of these drugs, they would not fund terrorism!
If one wanted to be honest and accurate, you could say that the United States Government funds terrorism that kills Americans via prohibition.
Cocaine is cheaper to produce that Coffee, but is over 10,000 times more expensive (a half-penny a gram vs. $50+ a gram).
Through federal government policy, we fund our own terrorist and gang problems, redistributing hundreds of billions of dollars from harmless American drug users to ruthless gangs and terrorists.
We then spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year as a government to stop these illicit activities.
The fix is in guys; we all need to wake up and smell the coca! Even if you believe that drugs are indescribably destructive and immoral, you've got to realize that prohibition merely increases the price (and the negative externalities) of drug use, all the while enriching those who wish to do us harm.
Look at this
Those problems have existed. There are also existing statutes to control impaired driving.
I believe these instances will decrease as previously ostracized illegal drug users realize they have been given the opportunity to rejoin the community of responsible citizens.
I assert that we haven't been attacked because they have chosen not to, plain and simple; an al-Qaida agent/cell can walk across the southern border )or even the Canadian border) tomorrow and take out a target, plain and simple.
The primary entry point to the US is completely unprotected and we have an inept bureaucracy telling us we're safe by a worthless color system.
Further evidence to refute the "we have them tied down in Iraq" theory is the nature of the terror groups in Iraq. Simply put, terror cells in Iraq are crude and unsophisticated.
9/11-level attacks are carried out by advanced cells, like the Hamburg cell that perpetrated 9/11.
Why would al-Qaida attack the US now, especially when US public opinion is turning against US involvement in the middle east in general? If you're al-Qaida, why snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?
al-Qaida's goals is simple: re-establish the Caliphate; it's method to do so is pretty simple:
1. Evict the US from the Middle East; US power is propping up middle eastern regimes that stand as a bulwark against the re-establishment of the Caliphate, such as Saudi, Jordan, and Egypt.
2. In order to evict the US, al-Qaida needs to attack America's only true Center of Gravity (COG), it's will to fight.
3. In order to attack this COG, al-Qaida has to attack the will of the American people, which can be done by luring the US into a protracted guerrilla war in the Middle East that puts a sour taste in the mouths of Americans.
4. If successful, al-Qaida will have succeeded in turning US public opinion not only against the War in Iraq, but also the War in Afghanistan and the US presence in the Middle East in General.
5. Without US support, the above-listed regimes in the Middle East will fall. Al-Qaida can then directly attack middle eastern regimes, starting with Saudi Arabia.
6. Islamic fundamentalists have tried to free Mecca from the grip of the Saudis in the past, most apparently in 1979 when they seized the Grand Mosque; there were unconfirmed reports of bin Laden family involvement, but nothing was ever proven.
7. After Mecca and Medina are freed from the Saudis, al-Qaida would move to topple the Hashemites in Jordan, who have a legitimate claim to rule Mecca.
8. al-Qaida would then move to topple the secular dictatorship in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood, which gave birth to al-Qaida, is extremely strong in Egypt, where it was founded; Zawahiri could also settle old scores.
With the House of Saud gone, al-Qaida would be free to set up a stateless Caliphate that ruled from Mecca or Medina. They would control the Saudi Ulema, producing an even more extreme, Nejdi version of Wahabbist Islam; actually, it's not even wahabbist--more extreme.
If, however, al-Qaida re-attacked us right now, it would only prod the US public into retaliation -- and further involvement in the middle east.
You can't make bombs with that. You can't even make DIRTY bombs with most of the rads from med labs. Further, since the pseudo otc sources have dried up for all but the hard core smurfers, crank DOES in fact, come from across the border. Pseudoepenephrine is legal in both Canada and Mexico, and they can get their precursors there in large quantities, legally. I don't take drugs, but have contacts with many people who do. I understand that the quality of the dope has actually gone UP with the Mexican speed. The difference is that the tweakers can't cook up their own in such large amounts. It is still plentiful.
And they are now unable to do so because we have em "pinned down" in Iraq???? They are not hitting the USA because of IRAQ? Are you serious? Stop and think just how idiotic that is. Al Qaeda is a worldwide organization. Are you saying they need the infrastructure in Iraq and A'stan to plan a really good hit on the USA? I'll have some of what you are smoking, please.
And they are now unable to do so because we have em "pinned down" in Iraq???? They are not hitting the USA because of IRAQ? Are you serious? Stop and think just how idiotic that is. Al Qaeda is a worldwide organization. Are you saying they need the infrastructure in Iraq and A'stan to plan a really good hit on the USA? I'll have some of what you are smoking, please.
Polly, I believe it is you that doesn't know what you are talking about. Religious Fanatics don't think logically. In the early Nineteen Eighthes I worked with young Islamic foreign nationals in telecommunications construction that were only in the US to make enough money to by guns and fight Jihad against the Russians in Afghanistan. They were temporary workers sharing a weekly hotel room in a barracks fashion. Suddenly one day they were gone.
The truth is, the Imams and Mullahs whip the faithful youths into a mind-numbed frenzy to go where the fighting is at that moment. It is possible that some of those Islamics fanatics that I remember were later in the Taliban.
As for Iraq, *I* don't want any more of that. It is a failed exercise in nationbuilding, an attempt to cover for the two biggest dumbasses we have seen on display yet in the 21st century .Paul Bremer, who dismissed the ENTIRE civil infrastructure of Iraq-- police, fire, emergency rescue, EVERYTHING... f***ing idiot!, and Donald Rumsfield, who, although he KNEW Bremer left the populace un policed and with a history of internicene strife 1400 years old, did not send a SINGLE BATALLION of military police to give order to any of Iraq. These two dunderheads will go down in history as two of the most monstrous architects of failed policy we have seen in years, and it will cost us for years.
You don’t seem to understand or believe it.
However, I do NOT see any relation between the US being in Iraq and there being no attacks here. I can't see any connection at all.
It is like an Islamic Jihadist’s “Field of Dreams”; "If you build it, (they) will come."
If anything, it would infuriate the muslim fanatics to the point where they would be sending waves of the screeching goobs over here to attack. The staement was made that if we pull out of Iraq, their attention would shift to Afghanistan and then migrate to Europe. This is silly.
Because we have given the Jihadist a fighting front there, they have called their faithful to come to Iraq. Iraq has become the place for Islam to battle the Great Satan. If America tucks tail to cut and run we will give Islamic Fascism a victory and allow them the ability to create a renewed front in the United States. If the Arab mind perceives weakness in an adversary he will press the advantage and continue the attack.
They already view the USA as the Great Satan, responsible for the vicious slaughter of the flower of arab youth and despoilation of thousands of young female arab virgins blah blah blah.
Islam views Christians, Jews and Western Civilization as the anathema to their existence. The USA is the Great Satan because we embody everything they are against and not for any lesser reason such as the destruction of their youth. They obviously have little value for life anyway.
It would be hard to get them to hate us MORE.
We could do much MORE. We must totally defeat Islam and force it to conform to the precepts of civilized society. We must continue the fight to change the murdering brutality of Islam, just as after World War II, Shintoism was no longer the state religion of Japan and Nazism was removed from Germany.
The idea that Iraq is "keeping them occupied" is just silly. There are other reasons they have not hit us, some of it being the relative competence of our intelligence, and some of it being the fact that state sponsored big profile hits will bring a WORLD of hurt down, whether we are discouraged about Iraq or not. They have seen what we can do in the short term when we get energized. They don't want any more of that.
Islam sends it youth in droves to die by suicide bomb and you think they are afraid to die? They will not magically stop killing Americans just because we suddenly go home. If they are afraid of what we might do to them that is all the more reason we must do that.
As for Iraq, *I* don't want any more of that. It is a failed exercise in nationbuilding, an attempt to cover for the two biggest dumbasses we have seen on display yet in the 21st century .Paul Bremer, who dismissed the ENTIRE civil infrastructure of Iraq-- police, fire, emergency rescue, EVERYTHING... f***ing idiot!, and Donald Rumsfield, who, although he KNEW Bremer left the populace un policed and with a history of internicene strife 1400 years old, did not send a SINGLE BATALLION of military police to give order to any of Iraq. These two dunderheads will go down in history as two of the most monstrous architects of failed policy we have seen in years, and it will cost us for years.
You, like Neville Chamberlain, will go down in history as one of the most monstrous dunderheads we have heard from on FR in years.
Each time a Democrat or any American for that matter commits treason in a time of war by saying that we have lost or failed, they possibly perpetrate a self-fulfilling prophecy that will mark the start of our destruction and the beginning of our dhimmi-hood under the Sharia law of the Caliphate.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.