Haditha hearing shows leadership mind-set

North County Times ^ | May 13, 2007 | MARK WALKER

[Girlene]

Well, I’m not sure how clear all of this. There have been hints, but no clear demonstration released to the public that the insurgents were known to be in the first two houses that were cleared. We know there were insurgents in the area because someone had to remotely detonate the paved over bomb. If any aerial footage exists that indicates movements of insurgents around these houses, I would think the defense would want this presented in these hearings. It would sure clear up a lot of grey areas.

[Eagles6]

This is huge. I brought this up on a thread yesterday as a what if, now there is testimony under oath.

Now let's see if the "crime scenes" were sealed, processed and chain of evidence intact.

Were there 7.62 x 39 or 7.62 x54 shell casings in any of the houses or 5.56 shell casings not matched to any of the Marines' rifles? If there aren't, were the houses guarded to keep anyone from removing evidence?

If they are going to charge these Marines as criminals they should at least have the basic rights that a criminal has here.

[Girlene]

Isn’t it obvious the combat scenes weren’t sealed, processed, and the chain of evidence was not kept intact? This hearing has shown the whole chain of command viewed this as a combat incident that, unfortunately, resulted in civilian casualties. They weren’t too concerned with pursuing a criminal case after combat deaths.

Ten days after the incident, Maj. Hyatt just walked in to review the houses. Who’s to say the combat scene wasn’t tampered with after the Marines left to convince Maj. Hyatt of the horrificness of the interior? The worse it looks, the more compensation money is assured to remaining family members. Probably not, since I would imagine it would be pretty disastrous looking when this many civilians die in a few small rooms. But, you DO make a great point about what kind of casings were found on the floor. I wonder if Maj. Hyatt was asked this question.

[Eagles6]

Yep. It’s obvious that the scenes weren’t secured. The DOD can’t fight the war as DOJ problem, reading every terrorist his rights before engaging and treating every area where a round was fired as a crime scene. These terrorists used the civilians as human shields, maybe the people were complicit. The statement of the 12 yr old girl regarding knowing the bomb was going to go off leads one to believe that.

[RedRover]

From the San Diego Union-Tribune:

The eight [Iraqis identified as insurgents] were among five men ordered from a car and shot to death and four men killed in a home ….

From the North County Times:

Relatives of four men... got no payment because those men were believed to be insurgents, Marine Maj. Dana Hyatt testified Saturday.

LCpl. Justin Sharratt and SSgt. Frank Wuterich are charged with killing the four men mentioned above.

According to an Iraqi, Yousif Ayed, here’s what happened: “The Americans gathered my four brothers and took them inside my father’s bedroom, to a closet. They killed them in the closet.”

Incredibly, the NCIS agents and Marine prosecutors fell for this--even though Ayed, like the other Haditha “witnesses” was not there when it happened. Additionally, the initial Corps investigation determined that Ayed was lying or mistaken. The closet wasn’t big enough to hold one person, let alone four.

The media, naturally, bought Ayed’s story as well. The Washington Post published a diagram of the incident based on his tall tale.

I’ve redrawn the Post’s diagram, and supplied new captions, to give a more accurate picture of what happened.

[RedRover]

Great insight in that piece, Key. The liberal mindset divides the world into victims and victimizers. And they see themselves as dispensers of justice.

Liberals don’t understand warriors.

[bonehead4freedom]

Amen!
Other countries aren’t bound by our pc rules just look at how ruthless Russia has been in Chetneya and no one from Amnesty International is on their case!We need to think about what’s good for America first and be concerned for our soldiers lives first!I would rather see an air and artillery carpet laid down first before our boys go in making them fight house to house and room to room is so much b_ _ l_ _ _t!

[freema]

Kicking the wall Ping and the incredible simplistic stupidity, waste of time and talent, etc., etc., etc. I will need some steel-toed boots before it's over.

Gittins' comments outside court were supported by Maj. Dana Hyatt, a Marine liaison officer in Haditha, who testified yesterday under a grant of immunity that four men that Marines killed inside one of three houses that the Marines cleared were insurgents. If proved, the developments could complicate the prosecution of three Marines charged with murder in the November 2005 incident.

“Obviously this will make a difference,” said Tom Umberg, a former military defense counsel, prosecutor and judge. “It's a fact favorable to the defense. I think it adds a new dynamic to what the Marines did. It may affect whether their actions were reasonable.”

John Hutson, former judge advocate general for the Navy and now president of the Franklin Pierce Law Center in Concord, N.H., agreed that this could help the defense.

“If it is true and one-third are insurgents, it would certainly be complicated to explain how these guys should have been able to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guys,” Hutson said.

[MrEdd]

ping. I think the Duklax boards will see a familiar prosecutoral pattern here.

[RedRover]

Some people have surmised that the grants of immunity have shown partiality for the prosecution. But Major Hyatt is among those with immunity, and he is a boon to the defense. So far, I think Gen. Mattis is handling the process well.

I haven’t heard speculate about this, but Mattis may wait until the all the Article 32s for the officers are complete before deciding about whether to proceed to courts-martial.

On the other hand, he may have already decided to give all these cases a full airing for the sake of world opinion.

I’m kind of tending toward the latter. As always, it’s the families of the accused I feel most sorry for.

[stylin19a]

they are still going to have a tough time getting around Dela Cruz’s testimony.
They have to get him to verify the Maj. Hyatt’s testimony.

[freema]

Does anybody know how many Marines were on the ground that day?

[Girlene]

Red, According to an Iraqi, Yousif Ayed, here’s what happened: “The Americans gathered my four brothers and took them inside my father’s bedroom, to a closet. They killed them in the closet.”

Incredibly, the NCIS agents and Marine prosecutors fell for this--even though Ayed, like the other Haditha “witnesses” was not there when it happened. Additionally, the initial Corps investigation determined that Ayed was lying or mistaken. The closet wasn’t big enough to hold one person, let alone four.

Even Lt. Gen. Pete Chiarelli fell for this accusation. From an article by Thomas Watkins, AP, Huck, .....said he learned Feb. 12, 2006 in an e-mail from his boss, Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, that a Time magazine reporter asked about several allegations that challenged the official U.S. account, including one that "four young men were herded into a closet and sprayed with bullets."....On Feb. 13, Chiarelli called for an investigation.

You would think someone would have filled Chiarelli and Huck in at this point on the impossibility of that claim.

Freema, no I don't know how many Marines were actually there throughout the day. Originally there were 12. One was killed, two injured, one medic attended. That left 8. The QRF arrived pretty quickly - don't know how many guys. Probably, an intelligence team arrived later. I think Chessani also showed up that night, maybe the next morning. There were quite a few people around the scene that day, most likely.

[RedRover]

I disagree. Sgt Dela Cruz’s testimony only involves actions at the taxi. The two actors there were him and Sgt. Wuterich.

Sgt. Dela Cruz was not involved in any of the house clearing where casualties occurred. So he is not testifying against LCpls. Sharratt or Tatum or any of the officers.

Regarding the shooting at the taxi, it will be Dela Cruz’s word against Wuterich’s.

The same is true for the “cover-up”. Sgt Wuterich denies ever asking anyone to lie. The facts support this.

Sgt Dela Cruz will be torn apart on cross-examination. He gave five different accounts of the incident to investigators. He also admitted to desecrating the dead, and is not a paragon of stability. Dela Cruz was not cross-examined in depth by Gittins because his testimony is peripheral to Capt. Stone’s case.

[RedRover]

I’ve never gotten a head-count, but at least two squads (one was driven back from a house and called in an airstrike).

[stylin19a]

thank you...that was clear and concise.

[RedRover]

That bit about the closet jumped out at me, too. LCpl. Sharratt’s hearing will be the first for the enlisted men so this will come up again at that hearing.

It’s a hell of a thing that our guys need to disprove a Time magazine article or risk going to jail.

[RedRover]

You’re welcome!

[bonehead4freedom]

Let me sum it up simply,they were doing the job they were trained to do they all got to go home and some of the bad guys didn’t and thats why the news media is in a tizzy because their guys lost the battle!