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8000+ VICTIMS, CERTAINLY NOT LESS
Newsweek ^ | May 11, 2007 | Ginanne Brownell

Posted on 05/14/2007 6:15:36 AM PDT by mile

Newsweek
Bosnia: Digging Up the Secrets of the Dead
By Ginanne Brownell
Web Exclusive
May 11, 2007

The genocidal massacres of Srebrenica took place more than a decade ago, but Kathryne Bomberger relives them every day. As the director general of the International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP), Bomberger spends a good portion of her days visiting mass graves. Another grim stop: the Podrinje Identification Project (PIP) in Tuzla, Bosnia. Specially built to house recovered remains of Srebrenica victims, it is filled from floor to ceiling with body bags and thousands of bones.

There are also poignant personal items like clothing, photos and, in one instance, a handwritten German-Bosnian dictionary. Bosnian and international anthropologists and archaeologists extract DNA and use ante-mortem reports from family members to identify which skull goes with which arm. It’s a painstakingly long process—and one that Bomberger says is only half done. For the ICMP, Srebrenica is only one part of a story of missing people across the globe—the organization has used its specialized technology to identify remains from the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami and from Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. Bomberger, who hails from the U.S. state of Virginia, spoke to NEWSWEEK’s Ginanne Brownell from the ICMP headquarters in Sarajevo about how far the group's work has come and how far it still has to go.

NEWSWEEK: There has always been controversy about just how many people have gone missing in the Balkans. What are the numbers according to your DNA findings?
Kathryne Bomberger: From the region there were 40,000 missing overall, which includes Croatia and Kosovo. Of that number, about 30,000 were missing from Bosnia. We can for the first time say that the 8,000—maybe more but certainly not less—missing from Srebrenica is accurate.

Read more

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: antijihadheroes; balkans; bosnia; clintonlegacy; croatia; genocide; jihad; massgraves; milosevic; mladic; serbia; srebrenica; srebrenicagenocide; warcrimes; warcriminals; wot
An interesting article that might finally bring an end to the endless discussion on Srebrenica genocide figures. m
1 posted on 05/14/2007 6:15:37 AM PDT by mile
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To: mile; kronos77; Bokababe

Looks like the KLA PR efforts are back underway in response to the Balkan Jihadists in NJ.

How many of those missing are actually among the diaspora in Europe and the US?


2 posted on 05/14/2007 6:22:49 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: Incorrigible

Yeah, the KLA has pulled in the chips and put out the marching orders to the jihadi-Media, US State Dept, DhimmoRats, UN, etal...to coincide with the push for separating Kosovo!


3 posted on 05/14/2007 6:29:55 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: mile
You mean Newsweek, who originally reported the Bosnian "deathcamps" and "rape camps" that never existed, is now supposed to be credible? Or could it be that they are still trying to justify the propaganda they produced that drug us into defending the Bosnian Islamists? I vote the latter.

Interestingly enough, the forensic evidence from both sides here could be -- and most likely are -- true. It's the conclusions reached with the data that are at issue.

Were there dead bodies found around Srebrenica? Yes. When and how did they die? Answers differ. How many bodies are still left out there? Depends on what you are counting. People dying from ALL causes all over Bosnia in a ten year period before Srebrenica? Probably a lot more than 8,000! Newsweek's verbal slight of hand here is profuse.

"Unfair, Unbalanced and Unmedicated"

By Aleksandar Pavic

For more than 10 years, the term "Srebrenica" has been used to denote the slaughter of "innocent Muslims" at the hands of Christians – more specifically, the Bosnian Serb army, alleged to have slaughtered, according to the version currently accepted by most major media, "between 7,000 and 8,000 Muslims" when it captured that small town in eastern Bosnia in mid-July 1995. As the story goes, the Bosnian Serbs captured this "U.N.-protected zone" and proceeded to take away and execute thousands of men, women and children in the space of several days, subsequently burying them in mass graves that are still being dug up almost 12 years later.

Belgrade-based historian and researcher, Milivoje Ivanisevic, who has been documenting Yugoslavian civil war casualties for more than a decade, has recently challenged the claims in a new booklet, "The Srebrenica Identity Card," which documents hundreds of bodies buried at the Srebrenica Memorial that were not killed in July 1995, when the alleged genocide took place, including cases of people who died natural deaths a full 13 years before the event took place.

The newest evidence offered by Ivanisevic indicates a number of those buried at the Srebrenica Memorial Complex not only were not killed in July 1995, but actually died much earlier, even in the early 1980s – more than 10 years before the civil war in Yugoslavia even started.

According to Ivanisevic, as of March 2007, more than 12 years after the event, a total of 2,442 bodies have been buried at the Memorial. Among those, a total of 914, or over 37 percent, were on the voting lists for the 1996 elections in Bosnia – over a year after the alleged "genocide." The voting lists themselves were approved and checked by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which supervised the elections.

A second even more significant find involves the fact that "at least 100 people" buried at the Memorial died of natural causes. Ivanisevic claims that the numbers would be even larger if he'd been allowed access to the death books in Srebrenica and the surrounding towns. Nevertheless, several names with dates of birth, death and place of demise are provided: Fetahija (Nazif) Hasanovic, b. 1955 – d. Dec.15, 1996, Srebrenica; Sukrija (Amil) Smajlovic, b.1946 – d. May 2,1996, Zaluzje; Maho (Suljo) Rizvanovic, b.1953 – d. Jan. 3,1993, Glogova; Mefail (meho) Demirovic, b.1970 – d. May 10, 1992, Krasanovici; Redzic (Ahmet) Asim, b.1949 – d. April 22, 1992, Bratunac.

Thirdly, Ivanisevic charges that several hundred soldiers as well as civilians were transferred to the Srebrenica Memorial from other cemeteries and reburied, with Muslim burial rituals. One of these is the body of Hamed (Hamid) Halilovic (1940-1982), transferred from the nearby cemetery in Kazani, who apparently died a full 13 years before the Srebrenica "genocide." Other bodies transferred from Kazani to the Srebrenica Memorial include those of Osman (Ibro) Halilovic (1912-1989), Nurija (Smajo) Memisevic (1966-1993), Salih (Saban) Alic (1969-1992), Mujo (Hasim) Hadzic (1954-1993), Ferid (Ramo) Mustafic (1975-1993) and Hajrudin (Ismet) Cvrk (1974-1992).

Fourth, using captured records of the Bosnian Muslim Army, Ivanisevic lists more than a dozen names of soldiers whose families were granted housing and social benefits due to families of soldiers killed in action before Nov. 11, 1993, when the documents were captured by Bosnian Serb army forces.

Fifth, on the basis of similarly captured documents, Ivanisevic provides several dozen names of Bosnian Muslim army fighters killed before March 7, 1994.

Ivanisevic goes on to provide names of Bosnian Muslim soldiers buried at the Srebrenica Memorial who were implicated in numerous massacres of Serbian civilians in the vicinity between 1992-1995, in which a total of over 3,000 Serbs were killed. Interestingly, the commander of the Srebrenica Bosnian army forces, Naser Oric, was given a two-year sentence by the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia, or ICTY, in June 2006 for his participation in these killings, some of which he captured on video and showed to Washington Post reporter John Pomfret, who visited him inside the "U.N. Safe Zone" in 1994.

During the 1990s, the Clinton administration used the "Srebrenica genocide" claim to enter the Bosnian civil war on the side of the Bosnian Muslims and enforce the subsequent Dayton Peace Agreement for Bosnia-Herzegovina in November 1995, with mutual recognition between Yugoslavia (now Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia). More generally, Clinton's State Department bureaucracy used the "Srebrenica genocide" – as it has since been referred to as a result of controversial verdicts pronounced by the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague – to justify its support for Muslim-dominated political movements not just in Bosnia but in Macedonia and Serbia's Kosovo region, which is currently seeking independence. And, since most of Clinton's State Department appointments, headed by Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns, have continued running the U.S. Balkan strategy, the policy has remained intact to this day.

Thus, even as the current Kosovo Albanian independence drive is provided heavy U.S., British and German support, the Bosnian Serbs, unhappy at the prospect of being locked inside a Muslim-dominated Bosnia, are being denied independence, with the "Srebrenica genocide" being used as the chief argument – i.e., that wartime gains achieved through "genocide" cannot be sanctioned. Many observers, including a recent G2 Bulletin analysis, link Western support of Balkan Muslims at the expense of Christians as part of a broader policy of appeasing "moderate" Sunni-controlled regimes in the Middle East, as part of an anti-Iranian Shiite coalition.

Among radical Bosnian Muslim elements, the Srebrenica narrative has been used not only to rally support to the general cause of jihad, to arouse Muslim feelings of having been oppressed and persecuted by non-Muslims, but to build what some have called the "first Muslim shrine in Europe," a gathering place for Muslims from the world over with anti-Western, anti-European and anti-Christian grievances. The Memorial Complex in Srebrenica now serves as a place of pilgrimage, where Muslims can see firsthand the results of what they believe is an unprecedented atrocity against their fellow believers.

The entire Srebrenica narrative has been provided key support by Western mainstream media, headed by the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Wall Street Journal and the mainstream British, German and French media, who have laced their Balkan reporting throughout the years with references to the "Srebrenica genocide," calling it, among other things, the "worst atrocity in Europe since World War II," a "stain on the conscience of the West," etc.

From the very beginning, numerous dissenting voices both in the West and in ex-Yugoslavia have contested both the Western mass media claims and the ICTY Srebrenica-connected verdicts, but have received almost no publicity whatsoever.

In the summer of 2005, on the 10-year anniversary of the event, the "Srebrenica Research Group," composed of mostly American and British media and academic figures, as well as former U.N. civil officials and military observers with ex-Yugoslavia experience, put up a website in which the entire "Srebrenica massacre" account was reconsidered and demystified. Instead of the 7-8,000 figure, U.N. officials and U.S. Congress experts were quoted giving figures of "700-800," "the low hundreds," "about 2,000 Muslims and Serbs total," etc. Henry Wieland, head of the U.N. Human Rights Commission, who spent days interviewing Srebrenica refugees in July 1995, is quoted as saying that he did not find "anyone who'd seen any atrocity committed with their own eyes."

The forensic findings were taken to task as well, with claims that the entire process of excavation and identification of bodies was controlled by an organization founded by the late Bosnian Islamist leader, Alija Izetbegovic. And, a Canadian international law professor deconstructed the Srebrenica-connected verdicts at the ICTY, showing, among other things, that Bosnian Serb Gen. Radoslav Krstic, sentenced by the court to a 46-year term, was, in the court's own verdict, absolved of participation in – or even knowledge of – the alleged massacre, instead being sentenced according to the ICTY's own construction of "command responsibility." The prosecution's star witness, Drazen Erdemovic, a Bosnian Croat who mysteriously appeared in the ranks of the Bosnian Serb army after previously fighting in the Bosnian Muslim army ranks, claimed participation in the execution of 1,200 Srebrenica Muslims, was exempted from cross-examination, deemed by the court itself as "mentally unstable" and, ultimately, given a five-year sentence for his "cooperation." Yet, the mass media, without exception, have ignored the group's findings, even those quoting the very same mass media's own reports from the ground at the time.

The Netherlands Institute for War Documentation issued an extensive report in 2002, "Srebrenica, a 'Safe' Area," detailing, among other things, that Srebrenica, although declared a "U.N. Safe Zone," was in fact never demilitarized, and that several thousand armed Bosnian Muslim troops were stationed in it between 1992-1995, organizing numerous lethal raids against Serbian villages in the vicinity. This claim was additionally corroborated by the U.N. secretary-general's report to the U.N. General Assembly of Nov. 15, 1999.

Ivanisevic's book will soon to be translated into English. It remains to be seen whether the Western corporate mass media will continue ignoring this and other evidence debunking the claim that an anti-Muslim "genocide" took place in Srebrenica in July 1995. Some public figures in the Balkans have called for an international commission on Srebrenica, which would re-examine the evidence and make a new, more balanced and independent assessment of what took place in eastern Bosnia during the last stages of its civil war, in the summer of 1995. "

4 posted on 05/14/2007 7:42:54 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
You mean Newsweek, who originally reported the Bosnian "deathcamps" and "rape camps" that never existed

Yeah.

Except it was "Newsday", and the chumps from "Living Marxism" who spun the denial tale wound up recanting their lies in court rather than perjure themselves in court.

Further, the state of evidence surrounding the Srebrenica genocide has reached the point where attempting to deny it is a sign of either ignorance or stupidity - Ivanisevic's argument regarding the 1996 voting lists would be all good and well were it not for the fact that the 1996 voting lists to which Ivanisevic refers were actually census data from 1991. Helge Brunborg managed to figure this out and testified to the fact in June of 2000 at the trial of Radislav Krstic, but apparently such advanced investigation and cogitation is beyond the limited intellectual abilities of deniers like Ivanisevic, which lead him to make an idiot of himself in his attempts to diminish the Srebrenica genocide.

In short, as I've told you before, you're only as good as your sources, so perhaps you could tell me why you continue to use as sources such morons as "Living Marxism" and Ivanisevic even after they've been shown to be worthless?

5 posted on 05/15/2007 4:43:12 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

The only thing that is “worthless” Hopeless, is your continuing representation of Balkan Muslims as “victims” and Clinton’s suicidal Balkan policies as “justice”. You would rather be dead than wrong. If that’s your choice, then go for it, but quit trying to drag the rest of us with you!

“Living Marxism” had absolutely nothing to do with the argument. Do your Islamo-paymasters give you an extra buck or two for labeling your opponents as “communists”? Go back to licking your prayer rug, Hopeless — it’s a better use of your spit than talking.


6 posted on 05/15/2007 10:37:04 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
“Living Marxism” had absolutely nothing to do with the argument.

Well, other than being the rag which printed "The Picture That Fooled The World", which kick-started and continues to serve as the primary source material for the whole Lie'n'Deny campaign over the Serbian camps in Bosnia, you're right.

7 posted on 05/15/2007 4:28:15 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite; Bokababe

Yeah, I remember the spin job you attempted, that was funny in a cute “look at the old guy trying to be relevant” kind of way.


8 posted on 05/15/2007 5:03:16 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Hoplite
"Well, other than being the rag which printed "The Picture That Fooled The World", which kick-started and continues to serve as the primary source material for the whole Lie'n'Deny campaign over the Serbian camps in Bosnia, you're right."

What planet are you beaming from, Hopeless? Because the stuff about LM has absolutely nothing to do with Srebrenica. That was about Omarska and no one even mentioned Omarska.

9 posted on 05/15/2007 11:21:29 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
That was about Omarska and no one even mentioned Omarska.

You're going to have to help me out here and explain what you meant when you said the following, then:

You mean Newsweek, who originally reported the Bosnian "deathcamps" and "rape camps" that never existed

It seems to me that you can't get your sources right, can't get your facts straight, and can't remember what you yourself posted the previous day.

Apart from that, you're on a tear here.

10 posted on 05/16/2007 1:45:25 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

Do you need me to post the map showing the Muslim fighters withdrawal from Srebrenica along with their subsequent engagements with Serbian troops YET AGAIN, Hoplite?

The only genocide in the Srebrenica area were the murders that the Jihadists were committing from the “UN Safe Zone” against Serbs in the area.

The Serbs military operations in Srebrenica swept the Jihadists from their nest.


11 posted on 05/16/2007 7:15:46 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: tgambill

This boy can throw out lies even faster than he can flip pancakes.


12 posted on 05/16/2007 7:23:56 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Hoplite
"It seems to me that you can't get your sources right, can't get your facts straight, and can't remember what you yourself posted the previous day.

It was two days ago, Hopeless. You can count, can't you? "One little piggy, two little piggy".

And it was said in passing about the credibility of Newsweek -- who did run those ridiculous stories, although Newsday's Roy Gutman was the one who began the lunacy in the American press. But that isn't the subject of the article. If you want to go off on that Omarska tangent, then be my guest, take that ball and run with it -- alone. I'll just let the the village missing their idiot, know where you are headed.

13 posted on 05/16/2007 10:57:16 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
You can count, can't you?

Yup.

And the number of days between your original post and the one where you confirmed your cluelessness is 1.

But why don't you go ahead and run the Serbian math and give me the difference between 5/14 and 5/15, just for laughs.

14 posted on 05/16/2007 12:40:37 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
Me:"You mean Newsweek, who originally reported the Bosnian "deathcamps" and "rape camps" that never existed, is now supposed to be credible? Or could it be that they are still trying to justify the propaganda they produced that drug us into defending the Bosnian Islamists? I vote the latter." 5/14/07

You: It seems to me that you can't get your sources right, can't get your facts straight, and can't remember what you yourself posted the previous day. 5/16/07

16-14= ? Come on, you can do it Hopeless! The answer is 2 days!!!!!

Stupid, arrogant and nasty are a bad combination, old Troll.

15 posted on 05/17/2007 9:54:41 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Me:"You mean Newsweek, who originally reported the Bosnian "deathcamps" and "rape camps" that never existed, is now supposed to be credible? Or could it be that they are still trying to justify the propaganda they produced that drug us into defending the Bosnian Islamists? I vote the latter." 5/14/07

Me: "What planet are you beaming from, Hopeless? Because the stuff about LM has absolutely nothing to do with Srebrenica. That was about Omarska and no one even mentioned Omarska." 5/15/07

You: It seems to me that you can't get your sources right, can't get your facts straight, and can't remember what you yourself posted the previous day. 5/16/07

16-14= ? Come on, you can do it Hopeless! The answer is 2 days!!!!!

Stupid, arrogant and nasty are a bad combination, old Troll.


You make me laugh.

At you.

16 posted on 05/17/2007 10:29:53 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
[”It seems to me that you...can’t remember what you yourself posted previous(ly).”]

Neither can you Hoplite. You have a very selective memory.

17 posted on 05/17/2007 8:50:41 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Still bent out of shape over not being able to cite that post of mine, huh LR?

Good.

18 posted on 05/17/2007 10:07:37 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: mile

bring an end to the endless discussion on Srebrenica genocide figures...


only in gullible minds like yours.


19 posted on 05/18/2007 11:14:34 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Bokababe

Go back to licking your prayer rug, Hopeless — it’s a better use of your spit than talking.


You got that right!

These idiot appeasers like “mile” who posted this drivel and the “hopeless” one and would be the first to get bloodied when Muzzies take over.


20 posted on 05/18/2007 11:18:05 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Hoplite

[”Still bent out of shape...”]

No, and I never was [bent out of shape]. But, if I do, I’ll let you know.


21 posted on 05/18/2007 5:20:34 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: Hoplite
Yo Hoplite, I just “remembered” something. Specifically, who is the person that’s being referred to in the statement below made by another poster (April, 2007)?

“Does anyone remember when a certain [individual who] was crowing about how it would be an interesting January [2007] in regards to Kosovo’s final status?

Since it is now April [2007] and the international community continues to recognize Kosovo as a province of Serbia, we should take time to note that he is wrong, wrong, wrong once again!”

Now, is that you being referenced Hoplite?...my memory falls short.

22 posted on 05/18/2007 10:07:34 PM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
Refresh your memory.
23 posted on 05/18/2007 11:32:06 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
So let me get this straight.

Your words were being either taken out of context or exaggerated (by someone else other that you).

Would I be correct?

Your response will clear up this situation.

24 posted on 05/19/2007 12:20:13 AM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: LjubivojeRadosavljevic
You can either go and find the original post or go pound sand.

Either is good with me.

25 posted on 05/19/2007 12:22:02 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite

[”or go pound sand.”]

The quintessence of immaturity, Hoplite.


26 posted on 05/19/2007 2:09:46 AM PDT by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
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To: eleni121

Why don’t you - oh the Skeptical One - enlighten us with the information you have on identified victims of Srebrenica genocide then? I imagine you have more information than this international, intergovernmental commission identifying them.

And, OMG, how come all former Yugoslavia related threads always end up hijacked by pro-and-con Kosovo independence opinions. Please vent your Kosovo frustrations elsewhere and stick to the topic. Thanks.


27 posted on 05/22/2007 7:14:54 AM PDT by mile
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To: mile
I am not referring to Kosovo...but in some warped minds that nightmare is hovers everywhere.

AS for the hijacking of threads....you must be having nightmares yourself. Furthermore, I’ll stick to whatever related topic I like bozo.

28 posted on 05/22/2007 9:08:09 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Bokababe

You caught Hoplite at a disadvantage, he doesn’t have enough fingers to perform the calculation.


29 posted on 05/22/2007 10:34:52 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: eleni121

My hijacking of threads comment was a general one, not aimed at you.


30 posted on 05/23/2007 5:54:29 AM PDT by mile
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To: mile

My hijacking of threads comment was a general one, not aimed at you.


It’s pretty obvious what you were implying. But...
who cares what you think about any thread.


31 posted on 05/23/2007 11:23:41 AM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: montyspython; Bokababe
You caught Hoplite at a disadvantage, he doesn’t have enough fingers to perform the calculation.

Ok, so the sound of him dropping his trousers was because he needed to count to 21...got it.

32 posted on 05/24/2007 11:51:24 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib

In that scenario he would be subtracting 1.


33 posted on 05/24/2007 12:47:15 PM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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