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Mine-resistant 'MRAP's called 'four-to-five' times safer than Humvees for U.S. forces
World Tribune ^ | Monday, May 14, 2007

Posted on 05/14/2007 2:48:11 PM PDT by BradtotheBone

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration plans to accelerate deliveries of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles for the U.S. military in Iraq. Officials said not one Marine has been killed during 300 IED attacks on MRAPs. They said MRAP's raised, V-shaped underbelly deflected the force of IEDs. In all, the Marines have deployed 65 MRAPs in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said MRAP offered improved troop protection over up-armored Humvees. Gates said MRAP would replace armored Humvees, particularly in the Marine Corps.

"Our experience is that Marines in these vehicles have been four or five times safer than a Marine in an armored Humvee," Gates told members of the House and Senate Sea Power and Expeditionary Forces subcommittees on May 10. "Based on this experience, we recently decided to replace our armored Humvees in theater on a one-for-one basis with MRAPs."

"My understanding is that the army has been recalibrating its interest and has substantially increased the number of these vehicles they think they can use," Gates said.

Officials said the US. military has ordered 7,700 MRAPs in an $8 billion project. Gates has met U.S. Army and Marine Corps officials to explore ways to accelerate deliveries of the 16-ton vehicles.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said MRAP was the result of defense industrial cooperation with the military. But he warned that the vehicle — which has been criticized for its huge size — would not provide full protection against IEDs.

"There's no solution out there that's going to protect everybody from everything all the time," Pace said. "What you try to do is provide the best protection you can that still allows a soldier [or] Marine to be able to go out and do the job they need to do."

U.S. commanders have urged the Pentagon to increase troop levels to fight the Sunni insurgency in Iraq. On May 11, Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, the U.S. commander in northern Iraq, asserted that his 3,500 troops were insufficient to quell the insurgency in the Diyala province north of Baghdad.

Mixon, citing a request to Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 commander in Iraq, said the additional troops would be used in the counter-insurgency offensive in Diyala. Diyala also contains 10,000 Iraq Army troops.

"I do not have enough soldiers right now in Diyala province to get that security situation moving," Mixon told a Pentagon briefing.

In rare criticism by a U.S. commander, Mixon said the Iraqi government was not supplying services, which he said was vital in any effort to weaken the insurgents. Mixon said the Diyal government was no longer functioning.

"They are overburdened by a centralized bureaucratic process from Baghdad and impacted by corruption and sectarian issues," Mixon said. "These are areas that we must improve on over the next several months."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: buffalo; cheetah; cougar; iraq; mrap; uparmormedhumvee; wheeledarmor

1 posted on 05/14/2007 2:48:14 PM PDT by BradtotheBone
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To: BradtotheBone

2 posted on 05/14/2007 2:50:06 PM PDT by Teflonic
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To: Teflonic

Where is the nearest dealership?


3 posted on 05/14/2007 2:51:28 PM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: BradtotheBone
Many different kinds of them. Here's a few.


4 posted on 05/14/2007 2:53:15 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: BradtotheBone
WASHINGTON — The Bush administration plans to accelerate deliveries of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles for the U.S. military in Iraq. Officials said not one Marine has been killed during 300 IED attacks on MRAPs. They said MRAP's raised, V-shaped underbelly deflected the force of IEDs. In all, the Marines have deployed 65 MRAPs in Iraq.

Excellent news - Whatever means necessary should be happening 24/7 to get as many MRAPs over there as possible. GOv't is so inefficient at times it is still mind boggling...

5 posted on 05/14/2007 2:53:25 PM PDT by SevenMinusOne
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To: Teflonic

That gun turret looks pretty exposed.


6 posted on 05/14/2007 2:54:43 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: Teflonic

If John Corzine had riden in one of thise, he’d be working out of the governor’s mansion instead of from home!


7 posted on 05/14/2007 2:55:00 PM PDT by llevrok (Truth is the enemy of the lie.)
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To: DevSix

Where’s the funding coming from?


8 posted on 05/14/2007 2:55:30 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: Teflonic

WOW - what a beast.

I’d hate to be a bad guy and see that rolling my way.

Full of our troops....


9 posted on 05/14/2007 2:55:50 PM PDT by Jake The Goose
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To: archy; Gringo1; Matthew James; Fred Mertz; Squantos; colorado tanker; The Shrew; SLB; Darksheare; ..

Treadhead ping.

Even though there aren’t any treads, I thought there’s enough armor to more than make this of interest.

BTW, the treadhead graphic is MIA. I can host it, if someone has it.


10 posted on 05/14/2007 2:57:06 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: BradtotheBone

Sounds/looks like a great vehicle. Hope we get them deployed FAST! Just watch, now the latest RAT talking point will be that the eviiilll Bush/Cheney cabal did not have 20,000 of these on hand four years ago. Of course, no one in the MSM will bother to ask why RATs in Congress, not to mention the Clintonistas who were in power for 8 years, never bothered to provide such equipment for the troops they claim to care about. If the RATs always have such foresight, why did the Clintonistas waste 8 years without even producing modest amounts of body armor, not to mention up-armored Humvees and now these latest and greatest...... oh, I forget, being a RAT means never having to say you´re sorry!


11 posted on 05/14/2007 2:57:42 PM PDT by Enchante (Reid and Pelosi Defeatocrats: Surrender Now - Peace for Our Time!!)
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To: Teflonic
Yeah, I want one too!!
12 posted on 05/14/2007 3:02:32 PM PDT by GoldCountryRedneck ("The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration."- unknown)
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To: BradtotheBone
Our experience is that Marines in these vehicles have been four or five times safer than a Marine in an armored Humvee,"

mohammedans will just build IED's 4-5 times more powerful.

13 posted on 05/14/2007 3:05:09 PM PDT by fso301
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To: BradtotheBone

14 posted on 05/14/2007 3:09:33 PM PDT by Gone_Postal (Communism works only in Heaven, where they don’t need it, and in Hell, where they’ve already got)
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To: BradtotheBone
Too damn bad the liberal “hate America” crowd won’t release the tax dollars necessary to purchase these much needed vehicles!
15 posted on 05/14/2007 3:10:00 PM PDT by paratrooper82 (82 Airborne 1/508th BN "fury from the sky")
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To: Dumpster Baby

What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.


16 posted on 05/14/2007 3:22:44 PM PDT by scan59 (History repeats.)
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To: BradtotheBone
Officials said not one Marine has been killed during 300 IED attacks on MRAPs... "Our experience is that Marines in these vehicles have been four or five times safer than a Marine in an armored Humvee,"

That doesn't make sense. These numbers have been cooked.
17 posted on 05/14/2007 3:25:58 PM PDT by xenophiles
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To: Dumpster Baby

Needs more wheels....


18 posted on 05/14/2007 3:28:01 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (The DemonicRATS believe ....that the best decisions are always made after the fact.)
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To: DevSix
Whatever means necessary should be happening 24/7 to get as many MRAPs over there as possible. GOv't is so inefficient at times it is still mind boggling...

You are so correct.

We are the USA. We should be able to produce, and deploy, at least a few hundred more MRAP's by years end, if not sooner.

19 posted on 05/14/2007 3:28:41 PM PDT by technomage (You get what you want one step at a time)
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To: xenophiles

Why? The Marine Corps has more than 100 MRAP vehicles on the ground in Iraq.


20 posted on 05/14/2007 3:28:58 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: BradtotheBone; All; SandRat

The Marine Corps has more than 100 MRAP vehicles on the ground in Iraq and the Army will field the first of its originally planned 2,500 MRAP vehicles in Iraq beginning in August, 700 of which are already in hand, Geren said.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2753088&C=landwar

DoD is moving WAY too slow on this.

Time to contact your congress critter and the President.


21 posted on 05/14/2007 3:31:22 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: scan59
What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.

Those are for wheeling the Porta-Potty out after an attack!

22 posted on 05/14/2007 3:31:53 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: BradtotheBone
Image hosted by Photobucket.comwhat's old is new again...

Steel Wheels...














23 posted on 05/14/2007 4:14:18 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: Dumpster Baby
They're getting closer to the design I like:


24 posted on 05/14/2007 4:30:44 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
"It's a bug hunt!!"
25 posted on 05/14/2007 4:32:55 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: bnelson44
[These numbers have been cooked.]

Why? The Marine Corps has more than 100 MRAP vehicles on the ground in Iraq.

(The article says in all, the Marines have deployed 65 MRAPs in Iraq, but never mind, it's beside the point.)

The numbers quoted are: a) zero deaths in IED attacks on MRAPS, and b) MRAPS are four or five times safer than humvees. So either "four or five times safer" is not based on risk of death (which makes the quoted death rate misleading, since we're not given the death rate for humvees) or else there's some other technicality at work, such as Marine dead versus non-Marine dead, or IED attacks versus other attacks, or five times zero equals zero.
26 posted on 05/14/2007 4:34:12 PM PDT by xenophiles
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To: Enchante
Under Clinton’s leadership, the army was going very light for everything. It almost looked like they’d do away with armor. A good question now is how do the games being played by the Democrat Party affect the fielding of these vehicles that would save lives.
27 posted on 05/14/2007 4:42:54 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: Dumpster Baby

“Someone said aliens, she thought they said `illegal aliens’ and signed up...”


28 posted on 05/14/2007 4:48:29 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Dumpster Baby

“Damnation Alley” 2007


29 posted on 05/14/2007 5:11:37 PM PDT by headstamp (Nothing lasts forever, Unless it does.)
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To: FreedomPoster; archy; Cannoneer No. 4
The latest from our friends in high places say there is a funding battle going on for them. DoD wants 17,700 of various versions of MRAP. Need to go cautious on this, as we say: You want it bad, you get it bad. We are starting the first of many stages of experimentation with them this summer. I would assume the results will be out in a year or so, then there can be some serious production take place. I hate to sound like a bean counter, but in the day of budget constraints we can’t afford to throw good money after bad ideas or vice versa.
30 posted on 05/14/2007 5:24:02 PM PDT by SLB (Wyoming's Alan Simpson on the Washington press - "all you get is controversy, crap and confusion")
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To: BradtotheBone

My Vietnam vet Hubby has often mused as to WHY they aren’t using tanks to lead off down roads like they did in ‘Nam. Seeing as how that’s where we’re losing the most troops. Aren’t there any tanks left? Or did they trash them all in the Clinton “Peace Dividend’?
Anyone out there know?


31 posted on 05/14/2007 6:52:50 PM PDT by MIgramma (FEAR= False Evidence Alleged Real)
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To: MIgramma

There are many that think there should be a lot of M113 tracks leading the way.


32 posted on 05/14/2007 6:55:20 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Teflonic

It needs more guns! I do appreciate the safety of it! Fantastic! But how about fire power?!! Do not get me wrong! But,, and this is not a statement about the military! When was the last time you read or heard about a massive new weapon for the soldiers?? It seems the only news worthy stories are “armor” or “safety” related! How about a new more deadly grenade! Or a new type of super bullet! Or new more deadly missile? I remember during Vietnam reading often about new weapons in magazines like popular mechanics. For example, I remember reading about weapons like the LAW,, how deadly it was,, the first disposable bazooka! I agree, though, this looks lie an awesome vehicle!


33 posted on 05/14/2007 7:16:42 PM PDT by freemike
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To: scan59
What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.

My guess is they unfold into short bridges for crossing ditches or whatever.

34 posted on 05/14/2007 9:32:06 PM PDT by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: Teflonic
The Army reinvented the South African UNIMOG.

I love the Army, but why do we have to rediscover all the good ideas painfully?

35 posted on 05/14/2007 9:34:37 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Banning Bread and Circuses is the New Bread and Circuses....)
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To: SLB

See my above post—The South Africans used the identical UNIMOG successfully since the late 70’s. I’ve wondered why we didn’t have such a thing, but you know how all that goes....


36 posted on 05/14/2007 9:38:07 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Banning Bread and Circuses is the New Bread and Circuses....)
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To: MIgramma
Several M1s have been destroyed by IEDs.


37 posted on 05/14/2007 9:38:55 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Brucifer

Armor ping


38 posted on 05/14/2007 9:45:42 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: robertpaulsen
Not even close to MY preferred design...

Mine would, of course, have repulserlifts to laugh at little Luke and his tow-line trick...
39 posted on 05/14/2007 9:50:26 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Satisfaction was my sin)
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To: RansomOttawa; scan59

Breaking out the sand channels for some deep sand recovery. Note the Lewis Gun behind the passenger side seat.

40 posted on 05/15/2007 12:17:32 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (Civilian Irregular Information Defense Group http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com)
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To: scan59
What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.

"Unditching"-- I recall an old, old, WWI photo of an Armoured Car, built on a limousine chassis, whose running boards could be removed to stick under the "tyres" for "unditching..."

41 posted on 05/15/2007 3:21:39 AM PDT by backhoe (A Nuke for every Kook- what a Clinton "legacy...")
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To: Cogadh na Sith

Aerospace Daily & Defense Report
May 15, 2007

JROC Retains MRAP Control To Stop Requirements Creep

The Pentagon’s Joint Requirements Oversight Council (JROC) is keeping acquisition control over the new Mine-Resistant, Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles being bought and fielded to Iraq to make sure they get delivered on time, said Adm. Edmund Giambastiani, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and JROC chairman.

The individual services usually retain acquisition control for such programs. But the JROC is retaining that control at the higher level to ensure there is no delay in delivery of the vehicles, he said. “We don’t want people to drop in new requirements,” he said May 14 during a luncheon for the Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association.

Giambastiani acknowledged the requirements could be good ones and eventually wind up being part of the program. “But they have to come in and talk to us,” he said. The priority in this case must be to get the MRAPs into the combat zone as quickly as possible, he said.

The armored vehicles are meant to protect troops from land mines and improvised explosive devices (IEDs), perhaps the biggest daily threat U.S. troops face in Iraq.

Costing about $1 million each, the MRAP vehicles have become a Pentagon priority. The Army had planned for 2,500 of them, but now the number could reach six times that amount.

Other counter-IED purchases also show the Pentagon’s ability to execute rapid acquisitions when needed, Giambastiani said. The Defense Department is able to push through programs in days and months when it would normally take months or years, he said. “We simply cannot take that long.”

But the JROC takes its time on other programs, he said. The group looks at funding changes and variances, feasibility and technology readiness levels (TRLs), he said.

JROC officials also take more time in looking at policy issues. For example, the group has talked about a U.S. Air Force proposal to become executive agent of higher-flying unmanned flying aerial vehicles (UAVs) three times in the past two weeks, Giambastiani said after the luncheon.

The group has asked the Air Force for more information about its proposal, and in a recent interview, service Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley said he expected the JROC to make a decision soon.

Giambastiani said the proposal and the subject are important topics, but would not provide a timeline for when the JROC would decide on whether to back the Air Force’s plan.

— Michael Fabey


42 posted on 05/15/2007 5:05:26 AM PDT by SLB (Wyoming's Alan Simpson on the Washington press - "all you get is controversy, crap and confusion")
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To: FreedomPoster; SAMWolf
Do ya mean this one?

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

43 posted on 05/15/2007 9:16:52 AM PDT by bittygirl (The Gickie Monster)
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To: Cannoneer No. 4

Good stuff. The progenitors of the SAS, right there, and their initial car service.


44 posted on 05/15/2007 10:13:51 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: bittygirl

Ah, very good, thanks.


45 posted on 05/15/2007 10:14:27 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Enchante

To be fair, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld served under President Bush and he was transforming our military to a “lighter and mobile” standing which proved to be tragic in Iraq.


46 posted on 05/15/2007 10:25:17 AM PDT by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
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To: Cogadh na Sith; archy; SLB

The Unimog is a Mercedes AWD military vehicle platform that many militaries use, in many configurations. A local brewpub has a firetruck version, that they have converted to a Biermog, so they can bring kegs of their beer to your event. I highly recommend both the food, beer, and converted military vehicle, at the 5 Seasons Brewpub.

As has been noted on other treadhead threads, I believe by archy, the South Africans, as you mention, as well as the Rhodesians, developed a number of mine-resistant patrol vehicles that have the characteristing V-shaped lower hull. Some were probably Unimog-based.


47 posted on 05/15/2007 10:25:46 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: FreedomPoster
Geez, that post is a mess. Please excuse grammatic miscues.
48 posted on 05/15/2007 10:27:45 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: MinorityRepublican

I’m merely pointing out that the ‘RATs constantly claim 20/20 hindsight, whereas when we look at their actual record on defense matters it is frequently atrocious. How many of the MSM hacks who write all the stories on body armor and humvees have ever bothered to ask what the Clintonistas and Congressional ‘RATs did for our military preparedness in all the years they had ample opportunity to do so?


49 posted on 05/15/2007 11:03:18 AM PDT by Enchante (Reid and Pelosi Defeatocrats: Surrender Now - Peace for Our Time!!)
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