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Mine-resistant 'MRAP's called 'four-to-five' times safer than Humvees for U.S. forces
World Tribune ^ | Monday, May 14, 2007

Posted on 05/14/2007 2:48:11 PM PDT by BradtotheBone

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration plans to accelerate deliveries of Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles for the U.S. military in Iraq. Officials said not one Marine has been killed during 300 IED attacks on MRAPs. They said MRAP's raised, V-shaped underbelly deflected the force of IEDs. In all, the Marines have deployed 65 MRAPs in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said MRAP offered improved troop protection over up-armored Humvees. Gates said MRAP would replace armored Humvees, particularly in the Marine Corps.

"Our experience is that Marines in these vehicles have been four or five times safer than a Marine in an armored Humvee," Gates told members of the House and Senate Sea Power and Expeditionary Forces subcommittees on May 10. "Based on this experience, we recently decided to replace our armored Humvees in theater on a one-for-one basis with MRAPs."

"My understanding is that the army has been recalibrating its interest and has substantially increased the number of these vehicles they think they can use," Gates said.

Officials said the US. military has ordered 7,700 MRAPs in an $8 billion project. Gates has met U.S. Army and Marine Corps officials to explore ways to accelerate deliveries of the 16-ton vehicles.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said MRAP was the result of defense industrial cooperation with the military. But he warned that the vehicle — which has been criticized for its huge size — would not provide full protection against IEDs.

"There's no solution out there that's going to protect everybody from everything all the time," Pace said. "What you try to do is provide the best protection you can that still allows a soldier [or] Marine to be able to go out and do the job they need to do."

U.S. commanders have urged the Pentagon to increase troop levels to fight the Sunni insurgency in Iraq. On May 11, Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, the U.S. commander in northern Iraq, asserted that his 3,500 troops were insufficient to quell the insurgency in the Diyala province north of Baghdad.

Mixon, citing a request to Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the No. 2 commander in Iraq, said the additional troops would be used in the counter-insurgency offensive in Diyala. Diyala also contains 10,000 Iraq Army troops.

"I do not have enough soldiers right now in Diyala province to get that security situation moving," Mixon told a Pentagon briefing.

In rare criticism by a U.S. commander, Mixon said the Iraqi government was not supplying services, which he said was vital in any effort to weaken the insurgents. Mixon said the Diyal government was no longer functioning.

"They are overburdened by a centralized bureaucratic process from Baghdad and impacted by corruption and sectarian issues," Mixon said. "These are areas that we must improve on over the next several months."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: buffalo; cheetah; cougar; iraq; mrap; uparmormedhumvee; wheeledarmor
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To: BradtotheBone; All; SandRat

The Marine Corps has more than 100 MRAP vehicles on the ground in Iraq and the Army will field the first of its originally planned 2,500 MRAP vehicles in Iraq beginning in August, 700 of which are already in hand, Geren said.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2753088&C=landwar

DoD is moving WAY too slow on this.

Time to contact your congress critter and the President.


21 posted on 05/14/2007 3:31:22 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: scan59
What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.

Those are for wheeling the Porta-Potty out after an attack!

22 posted on 05/14/2007 3:31:53 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: BradtotheBone
Image hosted by Photobucket.comwhat's old is new again...

Steel Wheels...














23 posted on 05/14/2007 4:14:18 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: Dumpster Baby
They're getting closer to the design I like:


24 posted on 05/14/2007 4:30:44 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
"It's a bug hunt!!"
25 posted on 05/14/2007 4:32:55 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby ("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")
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To: bnelson44
[These numbers have been cooked.]

Why? The Marine Corps has more than 100 MRAP vehicles on the ground in Iraq.

(The article says in all, the Marines have deployed 65 MRAPs in Iraq, but never mind, it's beside the point.)

The numbers quoted are: a) zero deaths in IED attacks on MRAPS, and b) MRAPS are four or five times safer than humvees. So either "four or five times safer" is not based on risk of death (which makes the quoted death rate misleading, since we're not given the death rate for humvees) or else there's some other technicality at work, such as Marine dead versus non-Marine dead, or IED attacks versus other attacks, or five times zero equals zero.
26 posted on 05/14/2007 4:34:12 PM PDT by xenophiles
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To: Enchante
Under Clinton’s leadership, the army was going very light for everything. It almost looked like they’d do away with armor. A good question now is how do the games being played by the Democrat Party affect the fielding of these vehicles that would save lives.
27 posted on 05/14/2007 4:42:54 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: Dumpster Baby

“Someone said aliens, she thought they said `illegal aliens’ and signed up...”


28 posted on 05/14/2007 4:48:29 PM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Dumpster Baby

“Damnation Alley” 2007


29 posted on 05/14/2007 5:11:37 PM PDT by headstamp (Nothing lasts forever, Unless it does.)
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To: FreedomPoster; archy; Cannoneer No. 4
The latest from our friends in high places say there is a funding battle going on for them. DoD wants 17,700 of various versions of MRAP. Need to go cautious on this, as we say: You want it bad, you get it bad. We are starting the first of many stages of experimentation with them this summer. I would assume the results will be out in a year or so, then there can be some serious production take place. I hate to sound like a bean counter, but in the day of budget constraints we can’t afford to throw good money after bad ideas or vice versa.
30 posted on 05/14/2007 5:24:02 PM PDT by SLB (Wyoming's Alan Simpson on the Washington press - "all you get is controversy, crap and confusion")
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To: BradtotheBone

My Vietnam vet Hubby has often mused as to WHY they aren’t using tanks to lead off down roads like they did in ‘Nam. Seeing as how that’s where we’re losing the most troops. Aren’t there any tanks left? Or did they trash them all in the Clinton “Peace Dividend’?
Anyone out there know?


31 posted on 05/14/2007 6:52:50 PM PDT by MIgramma (FEAR= False Evidence Alleged Real)
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To: MIgramma

There are many that think there should be a lot of M113 tracks leading the way.


32 posted on 05/14/2007 6:55:20 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: Teflonic

It needs more guns! I do appreciate the safety of it! Fantastic! But how about fire power?!! Do not get me wrong! But,, and this is not a statement about the military! When was the last time you read or heard about a massive new weapon for the soldiers?? It seems the only news worthy stories are “armor” or “safety” related! How about a new more deadly grenade! Or a new type of super bullet! Or new more deadly missile? I remember during Vietnam reading often about new weapons in magazines like popular mechanics. For example, I remember reading about weapons like the LAW,, how deadly it was,, the first disposable bazooka! I agree, though, this looks lie an awesome vehicle!


33 posted on 05/14/2007 7:16:42 PM PDT by freemike
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To: scan59
What do you suppose the ramps are for on the “IED” photo? The ones right above the front fenders.

My guess is they unfold into short bridges for crossing ditches or whatever.

34 posted on 05/14/2007 9:32:06 PM PDT by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: Teflonic
The Army reinvented the South African UNIMOG.

I love the Army, but why do we have to rediscover all the good ideas painfully?

35 posted on 05/14/2007 9:34:37 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Banning Bread and Circuses is the New Bread and Circuses....)
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To: SLB

See my above post—The South Africans used the identical UNIMOG successfully since the late 70’s. I’ve wondered why we didn’t have such a thing, but you know how all that goes....


36 posted on 05/14/2007 9:38:07 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Banning Bread and Circuses is the New Bread and Circuses....)
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To: MIgramma
Several M1s have been destroyed by IEDs.


37 posted on 05/14/2007 9:38:55 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Brucifer

Armor ping


38 posted on 05/14/2007 9:45:42 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: robertpaulsen
Not even close to MY preferred design...

Mine would, of course, have repulserlifts to laugh at little Luke and his tow-line trick...
39 posted on 05/14/2007 9:50:26 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Satisfaction was my sin)
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To: RansomOttawa; scan59

Breaking out the sand channels for some deep sand recovery. Note the Lewis Gun behind the passenger side seat.

40 posted on 05/15/2007 12:17:32 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (Civilian Irregular Information Defense Group http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com)
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