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Pope Benedict's Comments on Abortion, Catholics Draw Strong Support
Life News ^ | 5/14/07 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 05/14/2007 4:07:51 PM PDT by wagglebee

The Vatican (LifeNews.com) -- Comments Pope Benedict XVI made last week about abortion and Catholic politicians are continuing to cause a stir around the globe. The pontiff told reporters during his plane ride to Brazil that Catholic politicians who back abortion have excommunicated themselves and shouldn't receive communion.

The pope followed up those comments during his speeches in Brazil, his first trip to Latin America, with more comments condemning abortion.

He continued to express the church's pro-life views in an address to Latin American bishops on Sunday, though he didn't reference the excommunication and communion comments.

He said laws that permit abortion and contraception are "threatening the future of peoples."

In reacting to the excommunication and communion remarks from last week, John Allen, author of several books on the Catholic Church, said the pope appears to have a personal view that is stronger than the official Catholic position.

"What seems to be clear is that the pope personally thinks that Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should not receive communion," he told Reuters.

"This clearly emboldens bishops who have taken a hard line against Catholic pro-choice politicians, but it remains to be seen if there will be a disciplinary follow-through or whether individual bishops still decide who can receive communion," Allen added.

George Weigel -- senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center in Washington and leading U.S. Catholic theologian -- seemed to agree.

"Catholic politicians who think they can remain part of the church after supporting abortion are putting a lie on top of the original offense against justice," he said.

Meanwhile, Fidelis President Joseph Cella, a leading pro-life advocate, says his group is pleased with Pope Benedict's comments.

“We are deeply grateful to Pope Benedict for his comments on the Catholic legislators in Mexico City who voted to legalize abortion," Cella told LifeNews.com.

"The Holy Father’s message serves as a powerful teaching moment for all pro-abortion politicians, including those in the United States, especially those who are Catholic and running for President in 2008," he added.

He said those pro-abortion Catholic candidates -- including Senator Joe Biden, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Chris Dodd, Congressman Dennis Kucinich and Rudy Giuliani -- should "consider the larger message of Pope Benedict, and their obligation as Catholics to defend the sanctity of all human life."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; benedictxvi; catholic; elections; giuliani; moralabsolutes; prolife
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He said those pro-abortion Catholic candidates -- including Senator Joe Biden, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Chris Dodd, Congressman Dennis Kucinich and Rudy Giuliani -- should "consider the larger message of Pope Benedict, and their obligation as Catholics to defend the sanctity of all human life."

Nope, they're pro-abortion liberals first and foremost.

1 posted on 05/14/2007 4:07:54 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Mr. Silverback; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 05/14/2007 4:08:24 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480

Catholic Ping


3 posted on 05/14/2007 4:08:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ..
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


4 posted on 05/14/2007 4:09:19 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; Jim Robinson; Liz
My favorite part: ' "The Holy Father’s message serves as a powerful teaching moment for all pro-abortion politicians, including those in the United States, especially those who are Catholic and running for President in 2008," he added. '

Oh, dear. Does he mean Rudi?

I think ol' Rudi had better not show up for Mass in my state. The two bishops here are very...ummmm...assertive on the matter.
5 posted on 05/14/2007 4:17:35 PM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: George W. Bush

I wish Rudi and a bunch of others WOULD show up at Mass next Sunday, or any other Sunday or Holy Day, and be denied Communion.


6 posted on 05/14/2007 4:23:52 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; rogernz; victim soul; Rosamond; sfm; G S Patton; Gumdrop; trustandhope; MarkBsnr; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic Ping List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

7 posted on 05/14/2007 6:07:15 PM PDT by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)
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To: wagglebee

(John Allen...said the pope appears to have a personal view that is stronger than the official Catholic position. “What seems to be clear is that the pope personally thinks that Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should not receive communion,” he told Reuters.)

Mr. Allen, open up a catechism, this is the “official Catholic position” ... if anything, the Pope understated it!


8 posted on 05/14/2007 6:12:05 PM PDT by baa39
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To: wagglebee

Even if Rudy were “pro-life” he still is ineligible for reception of Communion because he’s living in an adulterous state of mortal sin.


9 posted on 05/14/2007 6:15:16 PM PDT by baa39
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To: wagglebee; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

10 posted on 05/14/2007 6:17:29 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: baa39; wagglebee

i am glad that the Pope came out with this now. hopefully, rudy won’t have the audacity to attempt to receive communion during the campaign, in light of this public airing of the Church’s position.


11 posted on 05/14/2007 6:20:52 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: baa39
Even if Rudy were “pro-life” he still is ineligible for reception of Communion because he’s living in an adulterous state of mortal sin.

Gee you sound like a fun person to be around.

12 posted on 05/14/2007 6:35:45 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: wagglebee

See what Berdardin set in motion. It was his ilk that allowed Cuomo to indulge in the sophistry of “personally opposed during the Notre Dame speech.


13 posted on 05/14/2007 6:40:21 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: xsmommy

If he wants to make a point of being seen going to Mass, he could do what Kerry did, just find one of these old, lefty-type priests who is sympathetic to him who will agree him beforehand to let him receive. I believe Pelosi and others have done the same. There may be enough heretic priests around, and passive bishops, that if Giuliani or others are determined to pull a P.R. stunt they can find a church.


14 posted on 05/14/2007 6:42:07 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Jorge

Yes, I tend to sympathize with the abandoned wife and children and not the woman who picked him up in a bar; sorry if that offends you.


15 posted on 05/14/2007 6:43:47 PM PDT by baa39
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To: George W. Bush

Rudi was remarried in a civil ceremony (and his previous marriage was not annulled, which means he has two strikes against him), so he’s not supposed to be receiving communion anyway.


16 posted on 05/14/2007 6:46:40 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: baa39
And I tend to sympathize with any victims of your personal sins.

Unless of course you claim to be sinless?

17 posted on 05/14/2007 6:50:16 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Jorge

You’re the one making this “personal”...why are you attacking me? I’m not going to take the bait, sorry.


18 posted on 05/14/2007 6:51:53 PM PDT by baa39
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To: baa39
You’re the one making this “personal”...why are you attacking me? I’m not going to take the bait, sorry.

Your the one condemning Rudy for his "mortal sins" on this board.

And I can't even ask you if you're sinless?

19 posted on 05/14/2007 6:58:22 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: RobbyS
See what Berdardin set in motion. It was his ilk that allowed Cuomo to indulge in the sophistry of “personally opposed during the Notre Dame speech.

No, that was set in motion long before Bernadin. Robert Drinan and his Jesuit cohorts were the ones who told the Kennedys and other Catholic politicians that they could get away with the 'personally opposed, but', position, and with the help of liberals in the media, and linguini spined Bishops, they have, so far.

The younger Bishops have seen what this has done to our country, and with Pope Benedict behind them, I hope they'll be able to do something about it.

20 posted on 05/14/2007 7:12:01 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

It was Bernardin’s seamless garment program that provided the real cover. Somehow the killing of a few hundred thugs every year, in a country where the legal process could drag on for decades, was allowed to balance the summary execution of millions of children.


21 posted on 05/14/2007 7:17:12 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

The ‘Seamless Garment’ came out of the whole ‘Social Justice’ movement, which was started to provide cover for those Democrat politicians who wanted to support abortion, but wanted to point to some other ‘social good’ to counteract that support. That’s when they started pointing to pro-life Republicans and discounting their being against abortion since they were not ‘for the poor’, since they didn’t support government programs to help those folks.


22 posted on 05/14/2007 7:21:51 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Jorge

According to Church teaching, Rudy is not eligible to receive communion because he did not receive an annulment for his previous marriage.
His current marriage is not recognized, so he is considered to be in a state of grave sin.

Again...according to the teaching, those in a state of grave sin who do not repent and who do not reconcile with the Church are not eligible to receive communion.


23 posted on 05/14/2007 7:22:26 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: baa39

Exactly. It’s just like those who say they’re Catholic but support a woman’s right to choose/support murder of a baby for whatever reason, or vote for politicians who support abortion., the whole Catholics for Choice nonsense. One is not a practicing Catholic if one supports the Choice/abortion and should not receive Communion.

I like Pope Benedict more and more.


24 posted on 05/14/2007 7:26:32 PM PDT by Twink
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To: Salvation

A great day for the Pope! He has all the right enemies.


25 posted on 05/14/2007 7:28:15 PM PDT by Diago (What was Urban Moving Systems?)
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To: SuziQ

I agree. The basic problem was that so many bishops were raised in Democratic homes and were strong for the labor unions when they had been rule by the likes of George Meany. The bishops could not get through their heads that when the socialists took over the Democratic Party in 1972, and gladly embrached Roe v. Wade in 1973, that their place in the Democratic coalition had been lost. Ten years later they still hadn’t figured that they had lost the pols and that the pols had no use for them except the “cover” you mention. I am sure that when Reagan took the Catholic vote in 1984 they were shocked. That’s because the Protestant Reagan was more authentically “Catholic,” by far than the ultra-WASPish Monday.


26 posted on 05/14/2007 7:31:51 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: wagglebee
"He said those pro-abortion Catholic candidates -- including Senator Joe Biden, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Chris Dodd, Congressman Dennis Kucinich and Rudy Giuliani -- should "consider the larger message of Pope Benedict, and their obligation as Catholics to defend the sanctity of all human life."

The problem is, they've all excommunicated themselves. They are no longer part of the Catholic Church.

27 posted on 05/14/2007 7:32:02 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Mitt Romney for President '08)
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To: Campion
With his views on abortion, and according to Pope Benedict's latest statement about excommunication, Rudy has already excommunicated himself.
28 posted on 05/14/2007 7:34:45 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Mitt Romney for President '08)
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To: Jorge

Like them or not, those are the rules of the church.


29 posted on 05/14/2007 7:36:26 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Mitt Romney for President '08)
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To: Jorge
Your the one condemning Rudy for his "mortal sins" on this board.

Rudy's "Mortal sin" is a public scandal. baa39 was not "condemning" anyone. baa39 didn't make the rules. The C[capital "C"]hurch says Rudy is living in moral sin.

30 posted on 05/14/2007 7:39:02 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: wagglebee

If I were the Eucharistic Minister (now called Extraordinary for some reason)serving that Mass, according to the Mandation ceremony and oath I took, I’d have to deny them Communion if they were in my line. I pray that never happens since I’ve never had to do that yet during Mass. I have had to do that during my hospital duty (bringing Communion to those in the hospital) because they were NPO or told me they weren’t Catholic (or Greek Orthodox)or were in dementia. I’ve had quite a few non-Catholics tell me they weren’t Catholic and still begged me for Communion. We’re told to protect the Eucharist but also to do what Jesus in our heart tells us so I’ve given dying non-Catholics Communion (they’re not even supposed to be visited by us, the whole Hipaa thing, we have lists, but sometimes they still ask me if I’m giving it to their roommate, etc.).

I’d probably look to the Priest, or ask him, if Rudy or any public figure were in my line. I’d deny them Communion and direct them to the Priest’s line.


31 posted on 05/14/2007 7:47:17 PM PDT by Twink
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To: SuziQ

boy oh boy - that social justice mentality got to be real big in my home parish.
They kept referring to that seamless garment nonsense.


32 posted on 05/14/2007 7:48:29 PM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

The ‘Seamless Garment’ idea is very popular in the Northeast where some Catholics truly don’t want to be lumped in with the ‘Religious Right”, because they consider anyone in that movement to be unsophisticated hicks or something. Now some Catholics who are even pro-life still have this attitude. Mainly, they are Democrats because their Mama and Daddy were, all the way back to whenever their families arrived in America. They are willing to just ignore what the Democrat party stands for today, and they hide behind the ‘Seamless Garment’ notion to put down Republicans for not being compassionate. That was one reason why the President pushed the ‘compassionate conservative’ idea, and he was successful among some Northeast Catholics who voted Republican for the first time in their lives.


33 posted on 05/14/2007 8:39:28 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: wagglebee
Pope Benedict's Comments on Abortion, Catholics Draw Strong Support

As they should. He is another Great Pope, in terms of getting the right message across, even if he unfortunately presides over a heavily protestantized and bastardized Catholic Mass post Vatican II.

34 posted on 05/14/2007 8:44:29 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: SuziQ
The ‘Seamless Garment’ came out of the whole ‘Social Justice’ movement

Yes...as I recall there was a traitorous priest who got elected to congress as a rat, from MA I think, who first came up with this treacherous thought. He either left the Church or was excommunicated, but a lot of our liberal bishops adopted his stance to give cover to their favored political party.

35 posted on 05/14/2007 9:14:53 PM PDT by rhinohunter (Even I have a better chance than Hagel)
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To: Twink
Sounds like you need to read Redemptionis Sacramentum for starters.
36 posted on 05/14/2007 9:20:19 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I don’t need to read anything. I go by what I was taught during the Mandating ceremony and the promises I made. After talking about this to priests in my parish, I’ll continue to adhere to their counsel. They know best imo.

My point was to convey that I would not, could not, give Communion to Rudy or any other high profile person who stated his views (because we all know those views unlike the ordinary person), pro abortion views, publicly. If he or Kerry or Kennedy or countless others happened to be at my parish church and in my line, I couldn’t give them Communion.

Are you an Extraordinary (formerly called Eucharistic) Minister at a Catholic parish in a Catholic Diocese? Are you mandated by the Diocese to give the Eucharist at Mass, to shut ins, and during hospital duty? Answer those questions and I may click your link and not view your reply as a snarky, uninformed reply by an uniformed person, who just wants to feel special by telling one she “needs to read something for starters”.


37 posted on 05/14/2007 9:45:08 PM PDT by Twink
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To: George W. Bush
The two bishops here are very...ummmm...assertive on the matter.

Hmmm...let's see... are you in Colorado or Nebraska?

38 posted on 05/14/2007 10:46:56 PM PDT by rhinohunter (Even I have a better chance than Hagel)
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To: Campion

Right, Rudi cannot receive the sacraments but he is still supposed to go to mass.


39 posted on 05/14/2007 11:07:01 PM PDT by Hound of the Baskervilles ("Nonsense in the intellect draws evil after it." C.S. Lewis)
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To: rhinohunter
He either left the Church or was excommunicated, but a lot of our liberal bishops adopted his stance to give cover to their favored political party.

He was neither. Father Robert Drinan continued to be a Jesuit priest until his death earlier this year. As he aged he looked more like a wizened old demon every day. After his death, he was treated by the media as some sort of secular saint. It was disgusting.

40 posted on 05/14/2007 11:23:46 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
Father Robert Drinan continued to be a Jesuit priest until his death earlier this year.

Oh yes... now I remember NPR did a big puff piece upon his death... imagine NPR doing a puff piece on a priest ... only if he is a son of Judas.

But I expect there to be traitors and I expect NPR to bow down in homage to the traitors. What I do not expect is for the Church to be silent. How can politicians be excommunicated for being pro-abort if we have priests who are openly pro-abortion? That makes no sense to me!

41 posted on 05/14/2007 11:48:53 PM PDT by rhinohunter (Even I have a better chance than Hagel)
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To: baa39

*(John Allen...said the pope appears to have a personal view that is stronger than the official Catholic position. “What seems to be clear is that the pope personally thinks that Catholic politicians who support abortion rights should not receive communion,” he told Reuters.)

Mr. Allen, open up a catechism, this is the “official Catholic position” ... if anything, the Pope understated it! *

john allen always seemed a little out of touch and-or quite liberal to me...


42 posted on 05/15/2007 1:01:40 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: rhinohunter; BlackElk
Currently, Nebraska. These Husker bishops were very conservative long before the bishop in Denver was appointed who cleaned up that infamous seminary. I used to live in Denver too, back when that thing was notorious, later with websites that documented the practices of that seminary.

What I've observed of these various bishops is that their firmness with their flocks is proportional how resolute they are in weeding unsuitables from their seminaries which is proportional which is proportional to the number of "normal" priests they produce which is proportional to how many scandals they have in later years which is proportional to how seriously the flock takes the shepherd's voice on voting on the pro-life issue.

As a Baptist, I prefer the obedient Roman Catholic bishops and priests to the corrupted ones. As a conservative, it's the same thing. So while there is no ecumenical appeal for me, I can readily discern which kind we have here in the state and the extent to which it appears to have kept my state all-Red at the polls.
43 posted on 05/15/2007 3:02:39 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: TAdams8591

“The problem is, they’ve all excommunicated themselves. They are no longer part of the Catholic Church.”

And so if they take communion they do so in an unworthy manner and so heap coals upon their heads. Not a good position to be in. I hope for the sake of their souls that they repent.

Mel


44 posted on 05/15/2007 3:05:51 AM PDT by melsec (A Proud Aussie)
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To: wagglebee

Though my proofreading is atrocious so early in the day, I thought I’d ping you to my previous post.


45 posted on 05/15/2007 3:18:11 AM PDT by George W. Bush (Election Math For Dummies: GOP ÷ Rudi = Hillary)
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


46 posted on 05/15/2007 4:19:11 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Twink
I don’t need to read anything.

From your statements in this thread it's rather obvious that you do.

They know best imo.

If they're instructing you that it's acceptable to give non-Catholics Communion then they obviously don't know best. Sounds as if they're more than happy to have someone else freeing them up from the responsibilities of their clerical office at the hospital. Send a letter to the CDF and see whether or not they disagree.

Are you an Extraordinary (formerly called Eucharistic) Minister at a Catholic parish in a Catholic Diocese?

No. Not being ordained I am not worthy to touch the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord with my hands. A view shared by Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, St. Thomas Aquinas and the Blessed Mother.

Are you mandated by the Diocese to give the Eucharist at Mass, to shut ins, and during hospital duty?

Irrelevant. I wouldn't accept Communion from Greeley or McBrien either unless I was near death and they were the only Priest available.

Answer those questions and I may click your link and not view your reply as a snarky, uninformed reply by an uniformed person, who just wants to feel special by telling one she “needs to read something for starters”.

You've obviously been poorly catechized, which is obvious from your lack of comprehension as to why an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion is called extraordinary. The Parochial Vicar at your parish should have given you a copy and instructed you to read it and then discussed its contents with you so you wouldn't be so poorly informed. Perhaps he was too busy on his day off while you were discharging his duties at the hospital and patting yourself on the back for being such a wonderful person.

Let me give you a clue, the authority of Rome spelled out in Redemptionis Sacramentum cannot be usurped by a Priest whom you mistakenly think, in your humble, relativist, extraordinary opinion, knows best.

47 posted on 05/15/2007 5:38:34 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Thank you for that reply. Having come from a Protestant background, it grates on my nerves to see the laity distributing the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord. You are right, only the priest should distribute, and we should receive only on the tongue and not in the hand. Even when I was Episcopalian, we were taught not to touch the Holy Eucharist. It was placed in our outstretched palm and we immediately lifted it to our mouth. No touching with the fingers. If people really believed it was the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord, they would be afraid of doing something sacrilegious. But so many people don’t believe - they treat it like Presbyterian wafers (I was Presbyterian growing up). People just don’t realize the implications of their lack of reverence. This is the Creator of the Universe we are talking about. The ancient Jews knew that if they looked on God, they would die (and were shocked when Moses didn’t) and yet we receive Him at every Mass. We have taken Him for granted and are totally flippant about our demeanor before Him.


48 posted on 05/15/2007 6:44:07 AM PDT by nanetteclaret ("Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine, there's always laughter and good red wine." Hilaire Belloc)
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To: rhinohunter
How can politicians be excommunicated for being pro-abort if we have priests who are openly pro-abortion? That makes no sense to me!

Good question, and it doesn't make sense to me, either!

49 posted on 05/15/2007 8:17:33 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: George W. Bush
What I've observed of these various bishops is that their firmness with their flocks is proportional how resolute they are in weeding unsuitables from their seminaries which is proportional ... to the number of "normal" priests they produce which is proportional to how many scandals they have in later years which is proportional to how seriously the flock takes the shepherd's voice on voting on the pro-life issue.

As a Baptist,

Well stated! I'm Catholic but we certainly see eye to eye on this.

50 posted on 05/15/2007 8:18:22 AM PDT by rhinohunter (Even I have a better chance than Hagel)
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