Skip to comments.'Explore as much as we can': Nobel Prize winner Charles Townes on evolution & intelligent design
Posted on 05/16/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
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You sound manifestly impressed by this reasoning. There is no such thing as pure empiricism. It has its virtues, but when it is the sole methodology, out goes a lot more than just holy books. You’d be done with literature, too. And history. And politics.
You may not remember, but I’ve “taken agin you” due to your snide assumptions. It’s impossible to have a conversation with you without your continually insinuating that I’m lying. I do Christians the courtesy to assume that their opinions are what they state they are, I find it annoying and frankly intriguing that the same courtesy is not returned to me.
Please do not address me again. And if you feel the need to read my mind while talking about me behind my back to another poster, don’t do me the favor of giving me a courtesy ping, just remove my name from your post and say “some people”.
There have been some interesting studies done (referenced somewhere!) about people who are undergoing brain surgery being prodded with electrodes. It seems that the mild current "brings back" memories in vivid detail, including tastes, smells, and particularities that would "never" have been possible. It seems that we are messy filers. We don't forget the data, we just forget where we filed it.
For those of us who are believers, the thought of a complete and exhaustive resuscitation of "who we are" on the final day, by simply recovering all our activities in thought, word and deed is interesting, if speculative.
Here are my two cents:
To the empiricist, all knowledge comes from sensory perception and reasoning.
If he holds a concept of God, and even if he has received that definitive divine revelation that Jesus Christ is Lord, he will nevertheless insist that God must comply with his own ability to comprehend Him.
On principle, whether he realizes it or not, He rejects the Spiritual insight that Gods ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts. He always anthropomorphizes God.
For instance, he would insist that God must comply with Aristotlean laws of logic, such as the Law of the Excluded Middle. Which is to say, in his mind God cannot speak two things which are to him mutually exclusive, e.g. do not kill, kill these. He will either reject such revelations in Scripture or seek to reconcile them by his own reasoning.
IMHO, some theologies look like pretzels because of this tendency to value sensory perception and reasoning above God's revelations.
Likewise, he would insist that God must comply with the physical laws and most especially causality, i.e. cause>effect. In his timeline oriented mind, God could not say that He hates Esau and loves Jacob before either of them were born.
That doesnt mean the empiricist is a lost cause, however. Like doubting Thomas, the empiricist will always have a tendency to put himself above God by demanding physical or logical proofs. He is an idol worshipper and the idol is himself.
But if God reveals Himself to him, as Jesus did to doubting Thomas - he'll know. Doubting Thomas was an apostle, too. And God favored Job as well by revealing Himself to him even though he had deigned to judge Him (chapters 38 to 42.)
In his Christian walk, hed be more like Martha in the story of Martha and Mary (Luke 10:38-42) cumbered about much serving, missing that good part which came so effortlessly to Mary. The physical doing would be more comforting to him than the spiritual being. In that respect, he would tend to be Spiritually unplugged - but not without hope if he takes in the full counsel of Romans 8 so that he will understand that he can let go and let God.
Thank you oh so very much for your insights on memory! It would be very helpful if medical science could facilitate recall - for patients suffering from memory loss or mental problems, investigations, etc.
Amen. Beautifully put.
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." -- Galatians 6:14
No ape or monkey(or any other animal, insect or plant) ever yet has shown signs of "worship" or anything like that.. Sooo, your saying that man evolved to a place/species that sought after "GOD".. MAN evolved to seek after God?.. For most do and have through out history..
Thats quite a "concept" Boopie.. Man evolved to seek after God.. Books could be written about that.. Darwin MISSED his biggest revelation.. Life force evolves to seek its source.. If, true, of course..
LOL DreamsofPolycarp!!! Isn't that the truth!
Thats WHY Jesus came to make ALL religion obsolete, and Did (even Judaism)..
Judeo-Christianity is not a religion it is a family.. Its not based on what you believe its based on whom you are..
"You MUST be born again"-Jesus...
Even some heretics are included if they are born again..
How do you get born again?.. Hmmmm.. try praying..
So then your personal character is superior to the God revealed in the Bible?.. You've eaten from the metaphorical Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.. As Satan in Genesis promised.. "You will be like God knowing good from evil".. and can pronounce God as inferior.. Well,,,,,, Duuuugh..
You don't find God he finds you.. (Jaws theme)..
Yes, I’m going to hell where you can laugh at my suffering forever.
I raised three girls that solved all or most problems by slamming their bedroom doors.. Pity their ol' man was a neantherthal primitive.. Took the lock set off the door for about 2 weeks.. and applied weather strip to the door jam.. i.e. door would not make any noise while slamming it..
If your in the family of God its O.K. to be a heretic..
Being a heretic seems to always cause personal problems..
Since ALL heretics have them..
I did not understand this to mean that man evolved to seek God, though certainly some may believe that is how Adam became the first ensouled man.
My comments about the origin of man - and Adam in particular - have been posted many times so I won't repeat them here. But I will assert that every Christian, individually, goes through a spiritual "evolution" which we call sanctification (Phl 2).
Thank you for sharing your extraneous reminiscence. *blink* I’ll keep that pointer in mind.
Hell may not be so bad.. What if you remained a spirit in a human body(updated form) forever?.. in a perfect world, no death, no sin, no disease, no gender, no money, no a lot of other things?... After 10,000 years it could get quite boring..
Course some like me would consider THAT hell being a servant, NO slave, to this/a very needy human body..
Preach it, Sister! I just went and read again Romans 8 - you’ve mentioned it a lot lately, so I’ve read it many times over the last week or so! I ended in tears. Yes, indeed! It will all work together for good: There is nothing that can kill or condemn us; we only rise, In Christ Jesus. Amen.