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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
That would be like removing the leg of man, subjecting it to rigorous research and then turning around and declaring that the observations made on the leg explain the whole man.;

This is an observer problem in an epistemological sense, which is other than the observer problem as described earlier where the behavior of phenomena is passive to the act of observation itself. I see two unique issues--or do I have that wrong?

142 posted on 05/30/2007 10:24:41 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: cornelis; betty boop
Indeed, they are distinct although related issues of the observer problem.

Examples of the one include the tendency to anthropomorphize God - and the tendency to project methodological naturalism as reality.

Examples of the other include the uncertainty principle - and that one cannot say something is random in the system when he doesn't know what the system "is."

Except for divine revelations, the observer is "in" space/time.

143 posted on 05/30/2007 10:50:27 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: cornelis; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
I see two unique issues--or do I have that wrong?

I don't think so, cornelis. In the first instance you cited, we are dealing with the expectation that a thorough analysis of parts (singly or in any combination) is capable of revealing the structure of the whole of which they are the parts. I think it's safe to say that neither A-G nor I puts much stock in such an expectation.

The second instance has to do with the supposition that somehow, reality is being conjured forth -- so to speak -- by an act of observation.

A-G and I have both been studying an interesting essay by Robert Lanza that seems to suggest that the latter case prevails. That somehow, reality is somehow "constructed" by human minds.

Certainly these are two different, and unique issues.

For myself, I think there's something to what Lanza is saying. But I don't think it can be "the whole story." So I take a page from Bohr here, and simply suppose that what Lanza is saying is "one half" of a complementarity; then go look for the "other half." (If that makes any sense.)

Am still looking!

Your thoughts, dear cornelis?

144 posted on 05/30/2007 5:00:47 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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