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Take a Stand!
custerwest.org ^ | 05/16/07 | drzz

Posted on 05/16/2007 11:00:42 AM PDT by drzz

Take a Stand with videos and articles on Custer's Last Stand.

New videos: "Custer's Last Prayer" and the "Reno Court of Inquiry", along with other Custer stuffs, testimonies on the Little Big Horn etc.

Visit also the French part of the website for extensive Custer paintings and pictures. A whole 2007 movie on Custer's Last Stand by the BBC is also available.

Enjoy.



TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: cavalry; custer; history; us
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1 posted on 05/16/2007 11:00:49 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

IB4Z.


2 posted on 05/16/2007 11:02:22 AM PDT by Dr. Ed Bravo
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To: drzz

Deja vu all over again?...........


3 posted on 05/16/2007 11:03:41 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Red Badger

It’s the name of a movie not that bad, actually. I posted the videos, not the website, and there are testimonies and articles on the subject.

Custer is a sickness, sorry, it’s hard to give up


4 posted on 05/16/2007 11:07:44 AM PDT by drzz
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To: Dr. Ed Bravo

and it means... ?


5 posted on 05/16/2007 11:08:29 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

Indians: 1
Custer: 0

The Home Team won.........


6 posted on 05/16/2007 11:11:06 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Red Badger

bTW, have you seen the BBC movie on Custer’s Last Stand? It’s all on the website if you want. It’s a 2007 movie with English actor Toby Stephens.


7 posted on 05/16/2007 11:11:44 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

It means: In Before The Zot!............He believes this post will be ZOTTED by the AD MODS......


8 posted on 05/16/2007 11:12:26 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Red Badger

No home, just teepees. Nomads.


9 posted on 05/16/2007 11:12:42 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz
Custer is a sickness, sorry, it’s hard to give up

I can't wait to see you explain this one...

10 posted on 05/16/2007 11:12:49 AM PDT by Dog
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To: Red Badger

Too bad. It’s just your history.


11 posted on 05/16/2007 11:13:46 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

12 posted on 05/16/2007 11:13:55 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: drzz

I read the spread in National Geographic a few years abck and the Discovery Channel (?) special on it. Plus there was a true forensic investigation (Smithsonian?) that followed the soldiers’ and armed Lakota positions, via shell casings’ markings. They concluded that from the start to finish of “The Battle” probably didn’t take more than 30 minutes.........


13 posted on 05/16/2007 11:16:05 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Dog
>Custer is a sickness, sorry, it’s hard to give up
>>I can't wait to see you explain this one...

It's all the sugar.
It changes your thinking and
makes you addicted.

14 posted on 05/16/2007 11:16:57 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: drzz
Too bad. It’s just your history.

Custer, if he had lived, would probably been court martialed.............

15 posted on 05/16/2007 11:18:24 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Dog

It’s called “custerïte”, and Robert Utley, in his latest book “An Historian Memoir”, explains how the sickness can spread anywhere, from Japan to the USA, because of Custer’s outstanding story.


16 posted on 05/16/2007 11:19:14 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz
NOMADS?

No wonder the Indians won!.......

17 posted on 05/16/2007 11:20:26 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: Red Badger

Too bad, because the latest National Park Service researchs found that 200 Indians were killed on the battlefield alone.

The battle, according to recent studies, lasted from 2 to 4 hours.


18 posted on 05/16/2007 11:20:36 AM PDT by drzz
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To: Red Badger
The Home Team won.........

Wasn't the first time or the biggest.

...Washington was accustomed to adversity, and after Harmar resigned in March, 1791, he commissioned Arthur St. Clair a major general and commander of the American forces in Ohio with specific instructions to be careful of "surprise." St. Clair, however, was disliked in Kentucky and had trouble recruiting an army. He eventually assembled 2,000 militia at Fort Hamilton (just north of Cincinnati) and moved north in the fall. Despite Washington's warnings, St. Clair was surprised on November 4th near the future site of Fort Recovery, Ohio and almost overrun by Little Turtle's early morning assault of 1,200 warriors. The confused retreat degenerated into a complete rout with the soldiers abandoning their weapons and wounded. The alliance lost 56 warriors in the greatest Native American victory over an American army, while St. Clair lost over 600 killed and 400 wounded from a total force of 2,000. The mouths of the American dead were found later filled with dirt, the only piece of Ohio they would ever get.

19 posted on 05/16/2007 11:27:23 AM PDT by fewz
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To: drzz
Click below for Dhimmi audio:


20 posted on 05/16/2007 11:27:32 AM PDT by pookie18 ([Hillary Rotten] Clinton Happens...as does Dr. Demento Dean, Bela Pelosi & Benedick Durbin!!)
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To: drzz

Heated battle couldn’t have lasted 2-4 hours. The ridge where Custer’s men were trapped was completely surrounded. The Indians had the advantage of ravines and knolls from which to shoot, unimpeded, at a completely outlined target. There may have been 200 Indians killed, but they were probably the ones in first charge. Custer’s defensive postion collapsed and the men retreated back down a small ravine only to be slaughtered before they reached the river............


21 posted on 05/16/2007 11:34:19 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: fewz

Yes, you’re right, it was the battle of Wabash. 600 victims.


22 posted on 05/16/2007 11:37:45 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

Still haven’t seen the title of this “book” you wrote.

You come here and make these claims, claims that history itself has debunked over the years, you claim that you wrote a book on it.

Fine, what’s the name of the book?

End story

Benteen and Reno both were marginal officers at best.

The Soldiers themselves were rookies.

They were armed with single shot carbines.

The Indians were armed with repeaters, bows and lances (none of which run out of killing power quickly).

The Indians were veteran warriors.

Custer didn’t listen to his scouts who told him that the village stretched up the valley of the rosebud for almost 5 miles (he insisted he could not see it).

Custer ordered his command split into 3 wings, 1 going off to prevent a suspected escape attempt. This wing also had the supply packs.

Custer, when he discovered his monumental screw up, tried to get Benteen back.

Custer tried to cross the river at what he thought was the North end of the village (it was actually the middle of the village) at Medicine Tail Coulee.

He was subsequently ran up the slope and down the ridge to the spot where his command was wiped out.

Not 2 hours, not 3 hours, not 4 hours, but an hour at the most to an hour and a half.

By the time Benteen regrouped with Reno on Reno hill, Custer’s fight was over. The ONLY thing those 2 officers could do was to dig in and wait for Terry’s column.

It’s good that you are so passionate about history, but your version of the facts is the same version that came out in 1876 and have been subsequently found to be incorrect.

The Reno inquiry that you keep claiming is the end all to the evidence, is/was nothing more than a political show piece to blame someone for that disaster.

Reno’s actions and his name were exonerated back in the 60’s. He is no longer considered by this government, or people who have REALLY studied this battle both on foot (at the battlefield) and in print, to be guilty of anything other than being a marginal officer.

Custer was failed by many things that day. But first and foremost he was failed by his own ignorance of the indian displacement and his estimation of what they would do.

He split his command, he faced a vastly superior force both in fighting spirit and in numbers and he got his ass handed to him on a Northern Cheyenne lance.


23 posted on 05/16/2007 11:40:03 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: Red Badger

No. Custer cut his troops in two commands, one with him, one with Koegh. Both put skirmish lines near the river and on the ridges in the area. Then, they moved towards Calhoun Hill, Finley Ridge and near Deep Ravine. They eventually went on Custer Hill.

The Indians were surprised and Custer was always on the offensive to buy time for Benteen (who eventually never came). Read “Lakota Noon” by Gregory Michno. Last researchs shows that Custer’s last stand alone (one the hill) lasted 30 minutes, with a fierce two-hours battle before the last stand.


24 posted on 05/16/2007 11:43:21 AM PDT by drzz
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To: Leatherneck_MT

The book : http://www.amazon.fr/Little-Big-Horn-Autopsie-l%C3%A9gendaire/dp/2914818106/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/171-6537238-1992215?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179341082&sr=8-1

For what you wrote, it’s totally untrue. “The men who studied” the battle have since long condemned both Benteen and Reno for betrayal, Robert Utley, Larry Sklenar, Arthur Unger, US general in chief Nelson A Miles and so on.

VIDEOS: US General in chief Miles on Little Big Horn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc

The Little Big Horn case (I): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKeTsG2JpQA

The Little Big Horn case (II) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwpHpq-iP0


25 posted on 05/16/2007 11:45:45 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz
two-hours battle

Benteen and all his men were deaf?........

26 posted on 05/16/2007 11:47:12 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: drzz

Links do not make proof.

I’m a Military Historian, I have studied this battle from many angles. Heard all of the conspiracy theories. They just do not hold water.

What you are continuing to post here is nothing more that wishful thinking at best and at worst a Lie.


27 posted on 05/16/2007 11:50:06 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: drzz

Guess I’ll have to find the book in English. I don’t read French.


28 posted on 05/16/2007 11:51:49 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: Red Badger

The entire sequence of events leading up to and including the “Last Stand” could have taken several hours. The “Last Stand” itself would only have lasted 30 or 40 minutes, but possibly longer and possibly considerably less.

Custer is often maligned for attacking before he had a full strength of support, but he was unaware of the true strength, both in numbers and armament, of his enemy. The native forces, at least some, were armed with repeating rifles, while Custer’s men had only single shot carbines. The enemy also had the advantage of familiarity with the surroundings and used the terrain to their best advantage.

But what the indians did to the bodies of the slain was absolutely atrocious in any context.

If you ever get a chance, be sure to visit the battle site.


29 posted on 05/16/2007 11:53:10 AM PDT by SolidRedState (I Love TEXAS!)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Bullshit. There is no conspiracy theories in all that and it’s obvious that you are not military historian at all. Your knowledge of the battle is poor, sorry. You obviously don’t know anything about Michno’s researchs or even the latest NPS researchs on the battlefield.


30 posted on 05/16/2007 11:55:51 AM PDT by drzz
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Nice synapsis. Well put.


31 posted on 05/16/2007 11:56:25 AM PDT by SolidRedState (I Love TEXAS!)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Larry Sklenar’s “To Hell with honor”

Gregor< Michno’s “Lakota Noon”

My book is only in French, but my website has an English link. It’s why I posted the address here.


32 posted on 05/16/2007 11:57:04 AM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz

Oh no I know nothing about it clown. I’ve only read every book I could ever find on the battle of the Little Bighorn since I was 10 years old.

I also live within driving distance of the battlefield and visit it frequently.

The only bullchit coming out of this thread is that which you are spewing.


33 posted on 05/16/2007 11:58:11 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: SolidRedState

Yep, it’s nice put, but it’s whole wrong.

Robert Utley is quoted in my website, with Gregory Urwin, US general in chief Nelson A Miles and Indian witnesses. That’s serious stuff, not opinion.


34 posted on 05/16/2007 11:59:03 AM PDT by drzz
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To: SolidRedState

Thanks :)


35 posted on 05/16/2007 11:59:08 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: drzz

“That’s serious stuff, not opinion.”

Opinion and conjecture only, by people who want something to be true. It’s not based on facts at all.


36 posted on 05/16/2007 12:00:07 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Historian Robert Utley on Little Big Horn
“Despite the consequences, the decision to attack on June 25 was sound. […]

“Benteen counted himself out, as timing factors shows. When he came back to the main trail, he was about half an hour behind Custer and Reno. When he neared the mouth of Reno Creek, he was one hour and twenty minutes behind. Had he moved at the same pace as Custer, had he RESPONDED to the messages brought by Kanipe and Martin [which were orders] with the swiftness that Custer expected, Benteen migh well have fought alongside Custer. […] that don’t excuse the laggard pace that kept one-fourth of the regiment out of the fight at the decisive moment.

Reno also failed Custer, as well as every test of leadership. […]

Could Custer have won ? […] Good arguments, however, do support a conclusion that, even against the Sioux and Cheyennes in all their numbers and power, he could have won. […]

[Benteen’s] swift march on Custer’s trail on receiving Kanipe’s report [or orders] might have brought him to Medicine Tail with the action still centered there. Had Reno held in the valley, Benteen’s timely appearance would have given Custer eight companies with which to storm into the village and perhaps carry the day.

But one conclusion seems plain : George Armstrong Custer doesn’t deserve the indictement that history has imposed on him for his actions at the Little Bighorn. Given what he knew at each decision point and what he had every reason to expect from his subordinates, one is hard pressed to say that he ought to have done differently.”

Historian Robert Utley, Cavalier In Buckskin, new edition 2001, pp.159-162


37 posted on 05/16/2007 12:00:09 PM PDT by drzz
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To: SolidRedState
But what the indians did to the bodies of the slain was absolutely atrocious in any context.

I don't think the Lakota treated the soldiers' bodies any differently than if they had been Crow or other Indian enemies. They plundered as has gone on after battles since ancient times. It's in the bible. Plunder of the enemy clothing, weapons and provisions is a normal event. Scalping, is mainly an American Native thing.............

38 posted on 05/16/2007 12:00:12 PM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: drzz

lol have a nice day drzz, it’s been amusing watching your attempts to rewrite history the way it wasn’t. But those of us who live in this country and who have visited this battlefield extensively know better.


39 posted on 05/16/2007 12:01:48 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Give something serious. I don’t care about what you feel on the event. Give me Indian testimonies, quotes by historians, quotes by witnesses, something strong.

It was a hotly contested battle.
Eagle Elk, Sioux oglala warrior (Michno, p.186)

I really wrote the book, just see the page “les auteurs du site” on the French version of my website.


40 posted on 05/16/2007 12:02:04 PM PDT by drzz
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To: Red Badger

“Scalping, is mainly an American Native thing.............”

actually it was taught to the indians by.......

Guess who??

The FRENCH!

:)


41 posted on 05/16/2007 12:02:50 PM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

What a joke. You have no idea what you’re talking about. I visited West Point, Little Big Horn, Black Hills, Yellowstone, most of the CW battlefield in the East.

And my quotes are by people studying the battle for 50 years, or more. Give something serious here. I am waiting, “historian”.


42 posted on 05/16/2007 12:03:41 PM PDT by drzz
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To: Leatherneck_MT

:-)

Too bad. I am not French.


43 posted on 05/16/2007 12:04:09 PM PDT by drzz
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To: Leatherneck_MT

For your information, scalping was done much earlier, Indians were scalping enemies centuries before Colombus came.

Sorry, the Frenchies didn’t teach anything :-)


44 posted on 05/16/2007 12:08:48 PM PDT by drzz
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To: Red Badger

Well, it wasn’t just plunder. They cut off their scrotums. Disemboweled the dead. All other kinds of acts. While it may have ben customary for some, it wasn’t customary for the times. Arguments can be made for atrocities of course all around in those times, however it was considered especially heinous even in those times. But I understand what you are saying.


45 posted on 05/16/2007 12:10:02 PM PDT by SolidRedState (I Love TEXAS!)
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To: SolidRedState

For your information, scalping was done much earlier, Indians were scalping enemies centuries before Colombus came. Mutilating bodies was Indian customs and Indian religion since the beginning.


46 posted on 05/16/2007 12:14:54 PM PDT by drzz
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To: drzz
For your information, scalping was done much earlier, Indians were scalping enemies centuries before Colombus came. Mutilating bodies was Indian customs and Indian religion since the beginning.

Knew that. All the more reason for the total anhilation of their "customs and religion".

47 posted on 05/16/2007 12:17:20 PM PDT by SolidRedState (I Love TEXAS!)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

The French?.......So that’s why they wore wigs!...........


48 posted on 05/16/2007 12:28:31 PM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
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To: SolidRedState

What’s sure is that Texas, your homeland, was destroyed by Satanta’s warriors in 1868-1869, scalping, raping men and women and selling Texan children on the Mexican boarders, to make them prostitutes.

Watch the Washita story and remember that it was what Texas suffered during these times:
http://custer.over-blog.com/categorie-10018053.html


49 posted on 05/16/2007 12:28:51 PM PDT by drzz
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To: Red Badger

Indians didn’t learn at all how to scalp or mutilate bodies. They were doing that for centuries.


50 posted on 05/16/2007 12:29:55 PM PDT by drzz
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