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Benedict backs excommunication for pro-abortion pollies
Catholic News ^ | May 10, 2007 | Pope Benedict XVI

Posted on 05/16/2007 1:57:14 PM PDT by malibu2008

Edited on 05/16/2007 2:32:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Speaking to reporters on his way to Brazil, Pope Benedict has backed Mexican bishops who have threatened excommunication for parliamentarians who voted to legalise abortion in Mexico City.

The Age reports that the Pope was responding to a reporter's question whether he supported Mexican Church leaders threatening to excommunicate leftist parliamentarians who last month voted to legalise abortion in Mexico City.

"Yes, this excommunication was not an arbitrary one but is allowed by Canon (church) law which says that the killing of an innocent child is incompatible with receiving communion, which is receiving the body of Christ," he said.

"They (Mexican Church leaders) did nothing new, surprising or arbitrary. They simply announced publicly what is contained in the law of the Church... which expresses our appreciation for life and that human individuality, human personality is present from the first moment (of life)".

Under Church law, someone who knowingly does or backs something which the Church considers a grave sin, such as abortion, inflicts what is known as "automatic excommunication" on themselves.

The Pope said parliamentarians who vote in favour of abortion have "doubts about the value of life and the beauty of life and even a doubt about the future".


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionrudy; cathholic; giuliani; mittmcpaul; prochoice; prolife; ronpaul; rudy; stoprudy2008
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1 posted on 05/16/2007 1:57:16 PM PDT by malibu2008
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To: malibu2008

He plays one on TV.


2 posted on 05/16/2007 1:58:42 PM PDT by TBP
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To: malibu2008

Why did you change the title of the story in your thread posting?


3 posted on 05/16/2007 1:59:28 PM PDT by jrooney (The democrats are the friend of our enemy and the enemy of our friends. Attack them, not GW!)
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To: malibu2008

Better tell Rudy that!

He thinks he is a Catholic and many believet too!


4 posted on 05/16/2007 1:59:33 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: malibu2008

Another “play by my rules or I’ll take my ball and go home” post.

Man, it’s going to be a long time until next November.


5 posted on 05/16/2007 1:59:53 PM PDT by PeteB570 (I vote, each and every single cotton picking time.)
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To: TBP

He stayed at a holiday Inn Express last night, too!


6 posted on 05/16/2007 2:01:03 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my SUV with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: nmh
Have all his marriages been annulled?
7 posted on 05/16/2007 2:01:08 PM PDT by DManA
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To: malibu2008

Unless you are his bishop or the pope you can’t say that.


8 posted on 05/16/2007 2:01:09 PM PDT by bnelson44 (http://www.appealforcourage.org)
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To: jrooney; malibu2008

Malibu is an official headline editor.


9 posted on 05/16/2007 2:01:14 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: nmh

Rudy is everything to everyone. He “creates his electorate”.


10 posted on 05/16/2007 2:01:53 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: malibu2008
Rudy will probably come out and say it is the Pope that is NOT Catholic enough, He'd make a better Pope.

And Hannity would agree with him.

11 posted on 05/16/2007 2:03:35 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: malibu2008

Shouldn’t you have posted this under the Religion topic?


12 posted on 05/16/2007 2:04:02 PM PDT by cloud8
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To: All; malibu2008

We should write letters to editors to religious newspapers to let readers know he is pro-abortion, including partial-birth infanticide.

Believe it or not, not everyone knows just how pro-abortion he is.

And speaking of Rudy, people misjudge him; he is bad on the war on terror, because he has a STRONG pro-ILLEGAL immigration history.

Also, is a pro-life candidate, who will later become president, not able to fight the war on terror? That’s what even some pro-lifers seem to think.


13 posted on 05/16/2007 2:04:40 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there.)
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To: DManA

?


14 posted on 05/16/2007 2:04:55 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: TexasCajun

Hannitys love for Rudy is getting a bit out of control. I wouldn’t be surprised to find pictures of them at a secret dinner holding hands.


15 posted on 05/16/2007 2:05:01 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: kinoxi

Yup!


16 posted on 05/16/2007 2:05:45 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: TBP

So his is a RINO and a CINO


17 posted on 05/16/2007 2:06:46 PM PDT by chaos_5
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To: nmh

Pretty simple question really.


18 posted on 05/16/2007 2:07:12 PM PDT by DManA
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To: cloud8

“Shouldn’t you have posted this under the Religion topic?”

No, this is an action topic. Please read the first sentence of my Post #13.


19 posted on 05/16/2007 2:07:27 PM PDT by Sun (Vote for Duncan Hunter in the primaries. See you there.)
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To: malibu2008

“Benedict backs excommunication for pro-abortion pollies”
I kinda like the original title. You should ask the mods to put the original back on your post as this cuts down on the duplicate posts. Hard to search to see if it has been posted w/out the original title. Editorial comments can go in parantheses after the title.


20 posted on 05/16/2007 2:07:53 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: PeteB570; malibu2008
Another “play by my rules or I’ll take my ball and go home” post. Man, it’s going to be a long time until next November.

Voters are supposed to demand that candidates play by their rules. That is what parties are about. Parties have platforms and the candidates are supposed to stick to them because the voters believe in the platforms and want them carried out. I know this is a hard concept for Rudybots to grasp but that is the way it works.

If you are a republican you are supposed to be conservative. You are not supposed to condone murder, you are not supposed to try to trash the 2nd amendment, you are supposed to uphold the laws of the country, I.E.: deporting illegals and securing the border.

Yep, if Rudy won't play by those rules I will definitely be voting for an independent if he gets the nomination, because it will mean the republican party has fallen to the liberals.

21 posted on 05/16/2007 2:07:58 PM PDT by calex59
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To: malibu2008

Catholics who advocate that the death penalty can be a just punishment are not really Catholic?


22 posted on 05/16/2007 2:08:56 PM PDT by HaveHadEnough
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To: malibu2008
he tacks along being a (2) death penalty advocate

This one's not inconsistent with Catholic teaching. The Vatican City itself had the death penalty on the books until 1969, so it's unlikely that all the popes and cardinals up to that point weren't Catholic . . .

I agree that Rudy is trying to square the circle with his absurd position on abortion. If killing children is wrong, then it's goofy to assert someone has a right to "choose" it. If I choose bank-robbery, is Rudy going to back me up?

The brilliant thing about Catholic theology is that it doesn't let you play Three-Card Monte with morality. If you're doing wrong, it just crushes you with the leverage of logic. (See Thomas Aquinas.) Everything has been thought through, and human nature doesn't change.

23 posted on 05/16/2007 2:09:21 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: malibu2008; Admin Moderator
abortion certainly distinguishes the former mayor from the rest of the GOP candidates - for sure.

Wait a minute. Did the Pope say that? Because the way your post is formatted you have attributed these comments to Pope Benedict.

24 posted on 05/16/2007 2:09:29 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (When toilet paper is a luxury, you have achieved communism.)
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To: PeteB570
Another “play by my rules or I’ll take my ball and go home” post.

Wow. You've actually got a problem with someone calling out a phony-baloney politician who is pretending to be something he clearly is not? Are you sure you're on the right website?
25 posted on 05/16/2007 2:10:12 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: Sun
he is pro-abortion, including partial-birth infanticide.

Now people are just makin' stuff up.

We've had a pro-life President for seven years now. Abortion must be illegal now, huh? What? You mean it isn't?

Why is this an issue that matters then?

26 posted on 05/16/2007 2:10:51 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: TBP

Excerpt from 2004 letter to Cardinal McCarrick:

Worthiness to Receive Holy Communion

General Principles

by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger

3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.


27 posted on 05/16/2007 2:11:33 PM PDT by Stingray51
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To: bnelson44
Unless you are his bishop or the pope you can’t say that.

Uh, the Pope did say it, just not in so many words.

Look up the phrase latae sententiae and get back to us, will you?
28 posted on 05/16/2007 2:11:34 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: TexasCajun
Rudy will probably come out and say it is the Pope that is NOT Catholic enough, He'd make a better Pope. And Hannity would agree with him.

LOL! Post of the day!
29 posted on 05/16/2007 2:12:44 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off an environmentalist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: SamuraiScot
If killing children is wrong, then it's goofy to assert someone has a right to "choose" it. If I choose bank-robbery, is Rudy going to back me up?

Yes and no. It's more subtle than that. I believe that gambling is wrong, but I understand that others disagree and that it should be up to the individual to decide if he wants to gamble.
30 posted on 05/16/2007 2:12:59 PM PDT by HaveHadEnough
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To: malibu2008
You NOT supposed to alter the Headline. You're new so maybe you don't know that. It's a copyright thing and can bring legal trouble.

You should hit the abuse button on yourself and and the Mods to correct the Headline.

31 posted on 05/16/2007 2:13:04 PM PDT by Condor51 (Rudy makes John Kerry look like a Right Wing 'Gun Nut' Extremist)
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To: DManA
Rudy is irrelevant to me.

I don’t keep up with his marriages or whether they are annulled or not. I put him in the category of the Clinton's.

32 posted on 05/16/2007 2:14:32 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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To: malibu2008
Very misleading title. Excommunication is the most serious ecclesiastical penalty levied against a member of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a seldom used punishment to discipline unrelenting defiance or other serious violations of church rules, especially by those who are accused of "spreading division and confusion among the faithful" -- meaning, in practice, that the option of excommunication is more likely to be enforced when the disobedient Catholic is a visible and presumably influential public figure (such as a politician), but only rarely in the cases of non-public figures. Excommunication is never a merely "vindictive penalty" (designed solely to punish), but is always a "medicinal penalty" intended to pressure the person into changing their behavior or statements, repent and return to full communion.

Last I knew, the Pope had not excommunicated Giuliani (or any other politician I am aware of) therefore Giuliani is still a Catholic.

33 posted on 05/16/2007 2:14:49 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.)
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To: HaveHadEnough

The Catholic Catechism provides for the death penalty in certain circumstances, so, yes, Catholics who are pro-death penalty are really Catholic. That same Catechism proscribes abortion.


34 posted on 05/16/2007 2:17:21 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Antoninus

-thank you-


35 posted on 05/16/2007 2:19:04 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Ben Mugged
...Giuliani is still a Catholic.

Read the reference in Antoninus's #28.

36 posted on 05/16/2007 2:23:34 PM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
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To: Ben Mugged
the excommunication is latae sententiae which means it is automatic, and hence there is no need for an official decree
37 posted on 05/16/2007 2:24:10 PM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Antoninus
Lets see. Agenda driven posters who have to have their candidate at the top and trash everybody else or people who will work for their candidate and then support the party at election time.

Let me think on that a while.

38 posted on 05/16/2007 2:24:27 PM PDT by PeteB570 (I vote, each and every single cotton picking time.)
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To: malibu2008

I understand your intent, but the title is not credible. The content of the post does not support the premise.


39 posted on 05/16/2007 2:24:28 PM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: TBP
He plays one on TV.

Keyboard cleanup aile 3!!!

LOL!!!

40 posted on 05/16/2007 2:25:05 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: malibu2008

I find it difficult to take you seriously when you don’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re”.


41 posted on 05/16/2007 2:27:00 PM PDT by ab01
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To: malibu2008

Rudy is not a Catholic? So? Have we now became a non secular country? Is the official religion of the USA Now Catholicism? (Rhetorical questions)


42 posted on 05/16/2007 2:27:19 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft
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To: malibu2008

Please allow me to add to this.

The Pope recently said, “unfettered capitalism and Globalization were creating a wider divide between the rich and poor”

Thru the many international business ventures including, his partnership in Bracewell/Guiliani LLC, one would assume Rudy is a Globalist. (strike 4?) and there’s more.


43 posted on 05/16/2007 2:28:23 PM PDT by wolfcreek (DON'T MESS WITH A NATION IN NEED OF MEDICATION !)
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To: Ben Mugged
Ok, I'll ask you, were all his marriages annulled?

therefore Giuliani is still a Catholic.

44 posted on 05/16/2007 2:29:10 PM PDT by DManA
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To: nmh
You fooled me since you posted on a Rudy thread.

Rudy is irrelevant to me.

45 posted on 05/16/2007 2:30:35 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
Have all his marriages been annulled?

No. According to the Catholic Church he is still married to his last wife and he is living as an adulterer with his new "wife".

46 posted on 05/16/2007 2:30:37 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: Prokopton

So he has sort of excommunicated himself.


47 posted on 05/16/2007 2:33:05 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
So he has sort of excommunicated himself.

That's the way it usually happens. The Church didn't leave Rudy, he left the Church.

48 posted on 05/16/2007 2:36:40 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: pgyanke
I do not profess any great knowledge in this area, however:

Pope John Paul’s 1995 encyclical on bioethics, Evangelium Vitae. When outlawing abortion is politically impossible, the pope held, a politician could vote for a law that permits some abortions, if it’s the most restrictive result feasible and the alternative would be a more liberal standard.

When it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality,” the pope wrote. “This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.”

49 posted on 05/16/2007 2:40:07 PM PDT by Ben Mugged (Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.)
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To: nmh
"He thinks he is a Catholic and many believet too!"

So do the following: Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, probably other politicians. Mitt Romney, Bob Bennett and Orin Hatch...all pretty straight up Americans...really can't say that for Kennedy or Kerry.

50 posted on 05/16/2007 2:40:39 PM PDT by yoe ( NO THIRD TERM FOR THE CLINTON'S!!!)
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