Posted on 05/17/2007 10:15:40 PM PDT by EveningStar
Recently, a friend of mine announced that dogs don't have souls. Inasmuch as I nearly always agree with her, I found it surprising that we were in opposing camps on this particular subject. Because I respect her opinion, I found myself questioning my own belief system somewhat more than usual. Is it possible, I asked myself, to have four legs, a tail, fleas and a soul? While I'm not absolutely certain what souls are, I finally decided that if they are what I think they are, dogs definitely have them...
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
ping
no
Why not?
If dogs don’t have souls, then I want what they have.
Why can’t we just be thankful to our Creator for providing us with such wonderful animal companions, and be good stewards of these animals, without pretending that the animals were created in the image of almighty God with immortal souls?
Study Kabbalah for the answer, Burt.
OTOH, I’m not all that certain that all humans have souls either.
Agreed, Nully. After watching the news every night, it makes one wonder. Dogs are so much more deserving of heaven than most.
Some time ago I saw a dog laying on the side of the road, obviously hit by a car. Another dog was laying beside the dead dog with her chin on him. Several hours later when driving back by there, the scene hadn’t changed.
It was heart wrenching.
To begin with, a soul, to me, is the thing within us that urges us to behave as decently as possible...
No it is the us.
From the Holy Bible, King James Version, the Book of Ecclesiastes, 3rd chapter:
17I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
18I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
or Thomas Aquinas.
Yes.
When people talk about their pets living with them in heaven at some point in the future, I firmly disagree.
To reach Christianity’s version of heaven, you must choose Christ as your savior. Animals are unable nor called to make such a decision; therefore they don’t go to heaven.
There are some good Christians would not regard it as Heaven, if they knew their beloved pets couldn’t be there with them.
Now I don’t don’t buy everything in the book, like the writers claim that pets have souls but it does give one great hope that you just may see your Pet again when you get to Heaven.
Evangelist Dr. David Jeremiah said in a multi part sermon on what Heaven will be like, that “Heaven will not lack one thing that will make you happy”. I feel that if having your old buddy back again at your side will be bring you unmeasurable joy then why would God deny you of that?
No matter what side of this issue you are on, I think you all agree Heaven will have animals. The Bible says the lamb will once again lye down next to the Lion. If these animals, [which will be immortal in a place of no death] will be there, then why not dogs? Why not your dog?
Works for me.
Truly heartbreaking.
This doesn't mean they don't have souls. They also have their existence in God.
*ouch* That’s gonna leave a mark...
Numbers 22:22-33. If that beast had a soul, why not a dog? Actually the Lord calls upon each of His creations to fulfill the measure of their creation, and that is according to how the Lord defines the measure of the creation, not how we humans are measured.
From the Book “HEAVEN” by Randy Alcorn from Christan Publishers.
“Will our pets be restored in Heaven? Actually this is not a stupid question as some would suggest. Why do people of all ages find such joy and companionship in their pets? It is because we possess a GOG-GIVEN affection for animals. Although we cannot say definitively, is it beyound God’s power to restore a pet to the New Earth? Of course not. Perhaps God will create some new animals. Perhaps he will bring some back to life, Or perhaps He will do a combination of these two possibilites. We must remember that Christ redemption covers not just humans but all of God’s creation.”
As a devoutly religious friend of mine often quips..., "Dog is but God spelled backwards"!
Then I guess your Heaven is also closed to people who die in infancy or are severely mentally retarded.
God’s original plan for this world was that it should be perfect...that mankind should be perfect and that we should live forever. The perfect plan also included animals, and in keeping with the longevity considerations of that plan, they too were made perfect and intended to live without ever dying. Neither people nor animals would age or suffer disease under God’s plan.
Heaven and the New Earth will be Perfect and just like Eden will have animals.
The Bible is concerned with teaching man what is necessary for men to live eternally with God, not with revealing the eternal fate of animals one way or the other. But we do know that God cares for all his creation (Matthew 10:29) If it is best for God's animal creatures that perish for God to raise them to an eternal life, He can and will raise them. I just can't say one way or the other.
It's true that men, not animals, are created in the image and likeness of God. But just because animals lack a soul that's created in the image and likeness of God it doesn't follow at all that animals don't have a soul of some kind that God can raise in the last day. We just know that God will do what's best for the welfare of all His creatures.
Your thoughts?
Yeah, but do chickens have souls?
You remind me of the man who asked our Lord about the woman who had seven husbands during her time on earth, and wanted to know which of those seven would be her husband in the hereafter.
The man simply could not accept the fact that the earthly idea of marriage doesn’t apply in the hereafter. Our Lord faulted that man for not knowing the scriptures.
Often the two, soul and spirit are used interchangable, but are not the same.
Well, just a quick response, which may not quite answer the exact question, but here’s the “short version” of man’s history...
1. Paradise (Adam & Eve)
2. Paradise lost (the Fall)
3. Paradise regained (All things made new, end of Revelation)
Things restored as they were in the beginning, in perfect harmony as it was then, on this earth. And what else was on this earth with man? Well, all our animals. So, man will live in harmony with the full complement of animals as God intended.
Do they have souls? Does the Bible indicate it or say so? I don’t know... But our animals will be there with us anyway....
While RIMMER is thinking about this, LISTER makes his getaway.
RIMMER: Well, what a sad, sad story.
He thinks about it, then a look of puzzlement spreads across his face.
RIMMER: Wait a minute! How did they open the car door?
The meanest creature on earth goes to Heaven, yet the noblest sentient creature from elsewhere is eternally locked out?
I meant meanest in the sense of most menial, not cruelest.
Okay, I’ll be answering this shortly..., just finishing up some other stuff..., I thought the last answer would be a quick one, but apparently there is something more to answer, so I will... :-)
The man simply could not accept the fact that the earthly idea of marriage doesn’t apply in the hereafter. Our Lord faulted that man for not knowing the scriptures.
We should accept what the scriptures teach. The Bible teaches that marriage is an earthly institution.
I only know what the scriptures teach. The opinions of men are worthless. We must limit ourselves to to the revealed words of God.
I do not know of any Bible passages that teach that animals will be raised in the last day.
I do not know of any Bible passages that say that animals will NOT be raised at the last day.
If I missed any Bible passages that teach what God will do with animals in the last day, please bring them to my attention.
All I know for sure is that God cares for His creation. (Matthew 10:29)
Behind the house, roped to a tree, was a dog. It was brown, mid-sized, I forget the breed. It was sitting in the summer sun, with no water dish. It was quite skinny -- ribs showing. I asked one of the people in charge of the house about feeding the dog, and I couldn't quite believe it when he told me that the food in the house was intended just for people. His argument was that dogs had no souls, so it really didn't matter what happened to the dog outside. His opinion was apparently shared by the others in the house. They were just letting the dog dehydrate and starve.
I took the dog some water, and although I was nearly broke at the time I purchased a large bag of dry dog food and asked that it be used to feed the dog. I have no idea what happened after I left. The people in that house did not seem to actively dislike the dog, he just didn't matter.
They were reasonable, friendly, generous people, just doing what they believed was the Lord's work.
I’m going to knock off for the night, looking forward to more conversation tomorrow
I agree with Will Rogers, who said, ‘If dogs don’t go to heaven, when I die, I want to go where they go’.
dandelion already quoted a verse on point.
While the bodies of both humans and animals die and decompose, the spirit of “beasts” does not “goeth upwards.”
All dogs go to heaven. Not sure about cats though.
I don’t believe animals have souls - only humans. But cruelty is always wrong; even if the animal doesn’t have a soul, you do, and what does it say about you that you tie a dog up in your backyard and let it starve?
The Psalms say that God is loving toward all He has made, and passages in the Bible describe God’s care of the animals. The chapters where God speaks in the Book of Job are informative on the subject. But most enlightening of all, I think, are Christ’s words: “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.”
So God cares for animals, but He cares for people much more. He created both us and them, and I think it’s obvious that He places a higher value on us. After creating all the animals, God then said He would create a creature in His own image - Man. This is one of the reasons I don’t believe animals have souls. We’re in God’s image, they’re not - and I highly suspect that when the Bible talks about us being in God’s image, it doesn’t mean physical resemblance.
But that is speaking of what happens upon death, not what is the ultimate result at the resurrection. John 11:23-24 show that these are different events. As far as I know, there are no scriptures stating what God will or will not at the resurrection concerning animals. All I know is that he cares for His creation and will do what is best for all that are not separated by sin.
I agree.
Our souls are in the image of God. We have an intellect and a will, which are a spark of the Divine Intellect and the Divine Will. Animals, on the other hand, are ruled by instinct.
If they truly believed that then they aren't "good Christians" because they would be guilty of valuing their pet more than God. A "good Christian" in heaven will be throughly and ultimately fulfilled in God. To suggest otherwise is to suggest that God isn't one's treasure and not 100% fulfilling....it's to suggest that God is inadequate to meet all our needs.
If the scripture in Ecclesiastes was not intended to elucidate for our understanding an essential difference between mankind and beasts after death, then it is meaningless. That scripture does not say the spirit of beasts “goeth down except for later some goeth upwards.”
And nowhere does the scripture speak of animals having a soul. Animals are not accountable to the judgment of God for all of the “thoughts and intents of their hearts.” In speaking of the resurrection and the second death, the scripture says the “dead, small and great, stand before God” and are judged. (Rev 21:8) The idea that an animal is, like a human, accountable to God and will be made to stand before God and be judged in the resurrection is not consistent with anything in the Bible, much less the Bible when read as a whole. And you cannot separate the resurrection and the judgment, the Bible speaks of the dead being resurrected to stand before God for purposes of the judgment.
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