Posted on 05/18/2007 5:41:57 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
One thing that Northeasterners no longer understand and are flabbergasted when they encounter it in the south -- a civil public society where people are expected to be kind and considerate of one another, and that includes most strangers in day to day contact. What southerners grow up understanding is that when most people in a society try to behave pleasantly and politely and kindly to one another in public, it rewards everyone with a more pleasant social space in which to operate. Northerners tend to find these kindnesses and politenesses given to strangers with suspicion. They think it has a personal connotation -- that is, that an individual is being nice to them because of some personal response to that individual. Thus, they think it is "phony." Imagine that? Good manners and decency are phony. People should be cold, brash and hard.
What people need to understand who don't quite get it is that when most people behave in a kindly, civilized manner to another another, their behavior is as much for the public good as it is intended as a personal response to a particular individual. Thus, it is not phony. It is one person's contribution to a better social environment for all. Why can't Yankees understand that?
“Polite has the same root as politics and police.”
What the significance would be, I don’t know, but it is apparently not so anyway.
From here: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=police&searchmode=none
polite
1263, from L. politus “refined, elegant,” lit. “polished,” pp. of polire “to polish, to make smooth.” Used literally at first in Eng.; sense of “elegant, cultured” is first recorded 1501, that of “behaving courteously” is 1762.
politics (n.)
1529, “science of government,” from politic (adj.), modeled on Aristotle’s ta politika “affairs of state,” the name of his book on governing and governments, which was in Eng. 1450 as “Polettiques.”
police
c.1530, at first essentially the same word as policy (1); from M.Fr. police (1477), from L. politia “civil administration,” from Gk. polis “city” (see policy (1)). Still used in Eng. for “civil administration” until mid-19c.; application to “administration of public order” (1716) is from Fr., and originally referred to France or other foreign nations. The first force so-named in Eng. was the Marine Police, set up 1798 to protect merchandise at the Port of London. The verb “to keep order by means of police” is from 1841; policeman is from 1829. Police state “state regulated by means of national police” first recorded 1865, with ref. to Austria.
Polite has a strictly Latin root, while both politics and police have different Greek roots.
Hank
“Funny, but growing up in this time, I did not find it stifling, or limiting. Quite the contrary, we found we had unlimited opportunities for play and work, and a bright future. Quite a contrast to the attitudes prevalent in today’s culture.”
Thank you for answering for me. It truly is impossible for anyone today that did not experience that age to understand it. Care to venture a guess at the age of Mr. Jeeves? I’m willing to bet a years salary he’s under 50.
Hank
Also, if you liked good beer, good luck finding it in the 1950s.
The key is not WESTERN civilization, which any monkey can adopt the superficial trimmings of. It is AMERICAN CIVILIZATION, which, IMHO, is something deeper.
BTW: The RUDEST and CRUDEST folks I ever met on earth were not from South of the Border. They were the feral spawn of the native born underclass.
“His data seems to undermine his own assertion ‘we can’t go back’.”
I’m not sure the argument has been made “we can’t go back,” but suspect it’s true nevertheless. While the 50s were certainly a partial return to the best of America’s Western civilization, it was imperfect. By the end of the 60’s a threshold of corruption was reached, that I believe is irreversible.
The resurgance of “civilization” of the fifties was exactly what you have attributed it to, the kind of people that dominated the society of the 40s and 50s, the kind of people described in this article.
The difference between the 50s and today, over and above the obvious decadence of todays society and culture and oppressive government is the country’s demography. The decadence of the present age is not like that of the 20s and 30s, which was born more of disillusionment and dispair—it is the result of a society comprised of people with little or no integrity or character.
Hank
Off topic tidbit: the tall man standing to the left of Vivien Leigh (Scarlett) is none other than George Reeves, TV’s Superman in the ‘50a. He played one of the Tarleton twins.
“Also, if you liked good beer, good luck finding it in the 1950s.”
Good grief, you are definitely showing your age. In this day of “light” this and this “light,” and every possible wimpy “rice” beer dominating the commonly available brews, anyone would criticize what was available in the 50s, just does not know what they are talking about. Men (and those real women who appreciated real brew) in the 50s mostly did not drink beer anyway, just because it was pedestrian and week. Ale was the drink of people of character. Most of them are gone today, just as are those people, ales like Pickwick, Dawson, Carling Red Cap, 12 Horse, and many more. The only Ale from the 50s (and before) still available is Ballantine. It’s not for wimps—I do not think you would like it.
Hank
42, so you win. ;)
But I also remember the 60's and 70's as stifling and limiting, especially if you lived in the rural Midwest. Culturally, a giant Presbyterian Sunday School...but I guess some people wish it still was.
Is civilization not ruled by laws?
Savages have no law other than the law of the jungle. Civilized society cannot exist without law.
People were jealous of their privacy which they regarded a recognition of one's own being as an independent individual. To have one's own privacy violated or to violate another's was tantamount to physical assault. One's thoughts, one's body, one's business were their own, to be shared or not by their own choice.
How is privacy to be enforced? Isn't it the right of a free person to try to find out information about other people? Isn't it it the right of a free person to communicate such information to others? To what extent should the violent force of government be used to protect privacy?
People minded their own business, and expected others to mind theirs—it was part of their decency.
Is it decent to claim that the right to privacy includes the right to murder the unborn?
Yes, it is so. Latin is Greek with a country accent.
The crime statistic is interesting, but most of the article smacks of selective memory and exaggeration. I suspect his view of the 50’s has much to do with his young age when he experienced it. Statements like “adults, a status that, in those days, had to be earned, and was not conferred simply because someone had lived a certain number of years” don’t even make sense. Or distinguishing the 50’s as a time when people had something to live for—this sounds like an unhappy man projecting his dysthymia on an entire generation.
It is true that a growing cultural irreverence, well-earned by our politicians during the Vietnam era, has led to a gritty indecency in popular movies and music, which has been emulated by many everyday people. It has lead to a well-earned disrespect for government institutions and leaders and a coarsening of political rhetoric.
I for one like the trend. Election to public office does not merit respect, and that people are willing without hesitation to call their public leaders to task is an advancement over the 1950’s. It might be better if it happened without cursing, screaming, and incivility, but the important thing is that it is happening. The times when people cowered before the title of “Senator” or “Governor” I hope are over. Tomorrow’s grandmother hopefully will not dream of her grandchild becoming President, but rather of doing something valuable with his or her life.
Part of the reason such reverence for the civility of the 1950’s falls on deaf ears is because of the 50’s skeletons in the closet—widespread racism and condescension of women. Saying “Thank you ma’am” in one breath and “back of the bus N*****” in the next is hardly endearing to someone with a modern more consistent view of human respect.
The 1950’s was also a time of 91% marginal tax rates, the golden age of American unions, injection of religious fundamentalism into government, and some of the worst sha-boom music the world has ever seen.
There is much to be praised about the 50’s to be sure—especially if “Leave it to Beaver” is nonfiction, but this guy’s article is really out of balance.
Yup!
And no pansies were cultivated at Fort Benning in the 40s & 50s
Ike had millions of illegal aliens deported and knew how to handle uncivilized people too
Today it’s “Oh! We can’t do that!”
“It’s too hard!”
“It’s impossible!
“It’s not fair!”
Probably because they let it go on for so many years until it’s overwhelming. Done consistently according to the law would have keep us in good shape.
Some wrote that; “it was a very stifling, limiting culture”. Don’t think people would have thought that at the time and the current women’s libbers would have blown their minds.
Doors left unlocked over night for the milkman delivery and kids free to roam all day with out fear of molesters, the good things are endless.
Consider the things people fear and worry about now-days!
Stifling & limiting?
I did not consider Pompano, Fort Lauderale, Miami to be “stifling!”
Doors at home unlocked - Right
Cars parked unlocked most times too
I could carry my carbine in the trunk of my convertible and park it in the HS lot
No illegal aliens were working off the books to take our after school and Saturday jobs
Crime was virtually non-existent and you could walk or drive anywhere safely
Don’t let your child go here or there alone, not safe!
Watch out for this business or that one because they will try to cheat you and give you bad service in the bargain.
Watch out for your politicians because they don’t care what the hell you think!!
Watch out for your Church Ministers because they are interpreting the Bible and setting their own rules, plus demanding tithes so they can build that football sized Church complex.
Lol, I’ll stop.
I don’t even think I locked my car trunk or glove compartment while parked at school or at work after school
My semi-auto scoped carbine was in a heavy fabric riflecase from Sears and loaded magazines and extra hollowpoints in my glovebox
Nobody ever touched the car or tried to steal my carbine
An armed society is a polite society
God made men and women
Sam Colt made them all equal
(some are much better with Sam’s iron than others)
Firehammer's overall point may or may not be right -- I couldn't finish the article -- but his reasoning in this statement is ludicrous: essentially, he offers the frivolity of the 20s as proof that the "spirit of the 50s" is now "lost forever." And yet, according to my calendar, the 50s happened after the 20s ... clearly it is possible to recover from frivolity. It's not even difficult to define the conditions under which that might happen: bad times and suffering often tend to bring out the best in people and societies.
But then, I've learned over the years not to take "The Autonomist" very seriously.
In Frontier days even kids walked around with guns - but they weren’t killing each other like the druggies and gangs of today.
So strange how the anti-gun people think!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.