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Heaven-sent for the non-believers
The Age.com ^ | 19/05/07

Posted on 05/18/2007 9:06:58 AM PDT by Jakarta ex-pat

ROOT OF ALL EVIL?

THE God Delusion - based on Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion - is the best documentary I've ever seen. And, I imagine, will ever see. No jokes. No smart-arse cracks. No witty asides.

Dawkins is a scientist and passionate atheist who has produced a stunning, thoroughly researched and expertly executed work that flatly denies the existence of God and illustrates what a destructive force religion is. Even in its mildest form. This provocative and entertaining ride will have some believers coming out the other end as atheists. And every Bible basher, Torah toter and Koran carrier calling the ABC to complain.

As I watched this masterpiece unfold, I couldn't remember the last time I had seen something so brilliant on the idiot box. Dawkins unapologetically refuses to treat religion differently to any other subject. There is no tiptoeing in fear of "offending" anyone (how you can offend people with truth is beyond me). Dawkins has harnessed his skill as a scientist, his hunger for truth and his rage to prove that God is a delusion that's infecting the world. He refers to "the process of non-thinking called faith" and bemoans "that the idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe". He liberates the viewer with the conclusion that "atheism is life-affirming in a way religion can never be".

Atheists will watch this show and feel as if they have died and gone to heaven as they see a bloke far more smarterer than themselves poke that animal in the cage. The fundamentalists, the evangelicals, the dabblers and the moderates all cop it. Dawkins dismembers the lot with a scalpel. It's intoxicating for born-again atheists like myself. I have taken the Flying Spaghetti Monster as my Lord and personal saviour. That's right. I am a Pastafarian.

Atheism is, it seems, the new black. Dawkins' offering will not simply be preaching to the converted but actually convert fence-sitters with truth and reason.

Dawkins describes the God of the Old Testament as "the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it. Petty, vindictive, unforgiving and racist. An ethnic cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide."

Then Moses cops it. Dawkins quotes a Bible story and asks: "How is this story morally distinguishable from Hitler's rape of Poland or Saddam Hussein's massacre of the Kurds or the Marsh Arabs?"

Dawkins' masterful command of the language and his glorious Britishness is a delight throughout: "So Jesus had himself tortured and executed for a symbolic sin by a non-existent individual. Nobody not bought up in the faith could reach to any verdict other than barking mad." He tells us that "killing for God is not just hideous murder but utterly ridiculous".

On Sunday night, if you listen carefully, you'll hear atheists all over Australia leaning back in their chairs, putting their feet on the coffee table and saying, "I'm with him." And I'll be one of them.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: atheism; christophobia; dawkins; dawkinsthepreacher; godhaters; misotheism; moralabsolutes; richarddawkins
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1 posted on 05/18/2007 9:07:00 AM PDT by Jakarta ex-pat
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

“Dawkins is a scientist and passionate atheist who has produced a stunning, thoroughly researched and expertly executed work that flatly denies the existence of God and illustrates what a destructive force religion is.”

So he’s writing hate speach?


2 posted on 05/18/2007 9:08:48 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

What gods did Stalin, Mao and the Khmer Rouge follow?


3 posted on 05/18/2007 9:11:23 AM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

What’s ironic is that atheism has killed more people in a century than Islam has in fourteen.


4 posted on 05/18/2007 9:12:26 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: GourmetDan

They practiced Communism as a religion. An orthodoxy had to be followed and grave consequences for those who didn’t.


5 posted on 05/18/2007 9:12:55 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

Before the sun becomes a red giant and consumes the inner planets, the Andromeda Galaxy will be here and will have collided with the Milky Way. Those who remain on earth at that time, if they care, will not see the band of light of the Milky Way as we see it now. They will see a roundish cluster of stars, about twice as many stars as the Milky Way by itself, and they will see it four times farther from the center as we are now. See spaceflightnow.com


6 posted on 05/18/2007 9:13:01 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

and here I thought money was the root of all evil


7 posted on 05/18/2007 9:16:01 AM PDT by 99Volts
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

I haven’t seen the documentary or read Dawkins’ book. If I want to waste time, I can find other more enjoyable ways to do it. But I have heard him on interviews, and his basic take on religious believers is that they are stupid and deranged.

As God is my witness, that’s about all there is.

Same for Sam Harris.

Profound! Brilliant! Stunning!


8 posted on 05/18/2007 9:16:17 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Fred Thompson 2008)
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To: driftdiver

I think this is the guy O’Reilly had on a couple of weeks ago and cleaned his clock.


9 posted on 05/18/2007 9:16:56 AM PDT by Marathoner 244
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
..that the idea of a divine creator belittles the elegant reality of the universe.

Simple logic tells one that the elegance of the universe argues very strongly in *favor* of an all powerful,divine Creator!

10 posted on 05/18/2007 9:17:50 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
What are answers to these three questions:

1. Where did the physical matter that comprises the Universe come from?

2. How far does it extend?

3. How long has it existed?

11 posted on 05/18/2007 9:17:51 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne (Compromise on your vote and you get a compromised government.)
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To: Marathoner 244

I saw the inteview and think Dawkins held himself pretty well. O’Reilly kept insisting that the only way to explain the tide going in and out was by reffering to a Creator and Dawkins told him that we know perfectly well why the tide goes back and forth.


12 posted on 05/18/2007 9:18:22 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
While we're on the subject however....check out the Headless Muffler Man in, of all places, Mecca, California!
13 posted on 05/18/2007 9:18:44 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican
and his basic take on religious believers is that they are stupid and deranged.

Projection.

14 posted on 05/18/2007 9:18:51 AM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

” Atheism is, it seems, the new black. Dawkins’ offering will not simply be preaching to the converted but actually convert fence-sitters with truth and reason. “

At least he agrees that all “religions” are not created equal. I applaude that he can discern and take exception on to his conclusions.

Hope he’s not too successful in his proselytizing.


15 posted on 05/18/2007 9:19:08 AM PDT by delphirogatio
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
Yes but, does Richard Dawkins actually exist ?

The Dawkins Delusion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QERyh9YYEis

16 posted on 05/18/2007 9:20:35 AM PDT by be4everfree (We're on a mission from God)
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

One of the fundamental logical errors that atheists make is in assuming that personal non-experience of a proposition equals the falsehood of said proposition.


17 posted on 05/18/2007 9:21:32 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

bump


18 posted on 05/18/2007 9:21:36 AM PDT by VOA
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To: delphirogatio

take exception on to his conclusions.

take exception onLY to his conclusions.

There, fixed it.


19 posted on 05/18/2007 9:21:38 AM PDT by delphirogatio
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
thoroughly researched and expertly executed work that flatly denies the existence of God

I guess this is not exactly a claim to "prove a negative" but it seems fairly close. And is therefore little more than mental masturbation. There's no point to the exercise, but it makes Dawkins feel good.

20 posted on 05/18/2007 9:21:52 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: Borges

Who is the god of communism?


21 posted on 05/18/2007 9:22:43 AM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

Let me hazard a guess regarding the main points:

1. God doesn’t play by my rules, therefore he does not exist.

2. Any belief system subscribed to by people who do bad things, in the name of it or not, must be false (bye bye U.s. Constitution).

3. Evolution is a fact, but man is the end-all, be-all of intellectual existence in the universe. Any rational entity deemed to be infinite (like those impersonal time and space thingees) is an affront to our self-esteem and must be false.

4. The fact that diverse cultures cannot agree on the nature and preferences of said entity is proof that one does not exist. In furtherance of this argument, it should be proposed that no student ever be marked down on any test question to which the teacher receives anything but a unanimous answer from his/her test subjects, as the lack of such a concensus clearly demonstrates that no single correct answer exists.

5. People who believe in such a being are simple-minded dupes in need of such a belief to sustain themselves. Examples of such simpletons include Dostoyevsky, C.S. Lewis, Solzhenitsyn, and multiple doctorate holder in physical sciences A.E. Wilder-Smith. Also included would be those mentally deficient folks who set out to disprove things such as Christ’s resurrection (Frank Morison) or Christianity in general (Josh McDowell), but strayed into belief somewhere in the midst of the evidences they were compiling.


22 posted on 05/18/2007 9:23:49 AM PDT by william clark (DH4WH08 - Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Simple logic tells one that the elegance of the universe argues very strongly in *favor* of an all powerful,divine Creator!

Everything in the universe is based on the prime number three. It's all based on a prime number code. That's not an accident.

This mans logic also eliminates the concept of quantum physics. Apparently, he thinks he's wiser than most of the worlds greatest physicists.

Yep. He's a liberal alright - Too stupid to realize how stupid he really is.

23 posted on 05/18/2007 9:23:56 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
What’s ironic is that atheism has killed more people in a century than Islam has in fourteen.

Give Islam time. Muslims are still having trouble with indoor plumbing.

24 posted on 05/18/2007 9:25:01 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: GourmetDan
Who is the god of communism?

Communism (and Nazism) have no theology. They are both positivist belief systems that enforce said beliefs. No one has ever been executed for not being enough of a dis-believer.
25 posted on 05/18/2007 9:25:22 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

Either you believe that chance created everything or you believe that the Creator did.

Either was it is an unprovable belief. I’d rather put my faith in a creator than chance and a huge cosmic mistake.

Dawkins is free to believe whatever he wants to believe. More power to him. But I don’t have to elect him President of the United States either.


26 posted on 05/18/2007 9:25:58 AM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
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To: Southside_Chicago_Republican

Isaiah 57:20

But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.


27 posted on 05/18/2007 9:26:38 AM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

Richard Dawkins, you`re so f*****g stupid it`s not

even funny.

So all of the Apostles,except John, suffered extremely

violent deaths for a lie !? Bartholomew was flayed alive,

Mark torn to pieces, Paul beheaded torn to pieces in the

the arena, etc.

So if Jesus lied and was not resurrected why die a

horrific death for it? All the apostles had to do was

say, “Hey wait ! I recant, it`s all a lie.”

Any man who was trying to perpetuate a con would

confess to avoid death.

But they didn`t because it is true.

So f**k you Dawkins :-)


28 posted on 05/18/2007 9:26:40 AM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: ClearCase_guy; Jakarta ex-pat
thoroughly researched and expertly executed work that flatly denies the existence of God

This statement means nothing. It is an expression of belief, not a proof, or even statement, of fact. So Dawkins' work *denies* the existence of God. So what? There are also works that deny the existence of the Holocaust, or the moon landing, or Elvis' death. Each would claim to be "thoroughly researched and expertly executed", and each would be essentially nothing more than nonsense supporting a nonsense proposition which is itself based on nothing but assertion.

29 posted on 05/18/2007 9:27:15 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: colorcountry
Either was it is an unprovable belief.

There fixed it.

30 posted on 05/18/2007 9:27:25 AM PDT by colorcountry ("You step in crap once and spend the rest of your life scraping it off.")
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To: Borges
"No one has ever been executed for not being enough of a dis-believer."

The Horrors of Tuol Sleng

http://www.edwebproject.org/sideshow/khmeryears/s21.html

31 posted on 05/18/2007 9:28:17 AM PDT by GourmetDan
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To: agere_contra
Give Islam time. Muslims are still having trouble with indoor plumbing.

Well, yeah, it's not as if the Muslims haven't been trying to play catchup...

32 posted on 05/18/2007 9:29:17 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
"atheism is life-affirming in a way religion can never be"

Just not eternal-life affirming.

I'm not saying Dawkins is wrong; he just left out this aspect that
does seem to be very crucial to practitioners of the Christian faith.
33 posted on 05/18/2007 9:29:59 AM PDT by VOA
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To: 99Volts
and here I thought money was the root of all evil

It's LOVE of money, not money itself.

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10 KJV

34 posted on 05/18/2007 9:30:51 AM PDT by Disambiguator (If it wasn't for bad puns, we wouldn't have no puns at all.)
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To: be4everfree

God that’s funny! Did you,by chance,catch the fact that the “interviewer” is doing an almost flawless imitation of William Hague,the former Leader of the Opposition in Britain?


35 posted on 05/18/2007 9:30:59 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism."-Karl Marx)
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To: darkangel82

“Projection.”

No, its not projection. He says as much in his article. He also says we are dangerous and a risk to all things living.


36 posted on 05/18/2007 9:31:14 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
Atheists will watch this show and feel as if they have died and gone to heaven

Gone where?? Shouldn't this read "... feel as if they have died and gone to a place which doesn't exist and whose existence only deranged, stupid people could accept" ... ? And why would an atheist want to go to heaven, exactly?

as they see a bloke far more smarterer than themselves poke that animal in the cage.

"bloke far smarterer" ... ah, that vaunted atheist intellect again.

37 posted on 05/18/2007 9:31:27 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Borges
No one has ever been executed for not being enough of a dis-believer.

Apparently you've never read the history of the gulags then, have you?

38 posted on 05/18/2007 9:31:40 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Run Fred RUN!)
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To: GourmetDan

The Khmer Rouge killed people for not beleving unreservedly in their system. I was reffering to theoretical paradigm in which belief in any given system is not enforced. This would exclude Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot. The United States is as close in human history as we’ve been to such a system.


39 posted on 05/18/2007 9:32:32 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Shhhhh, please don’t point out the paradox of Dawkin’s ascribing to a religion of disbelief instead of a religion of belief. You know how hardheaded those religious fanatics can be. :o)


40 posted on 05/18/2007 9:32:50 AM PDT by delphirogatio
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To: driftdiver

I wouldn’t waste my time reading his crap. Anyone who is that obsessed with what others believe has some problems(and I say that as an atheist myself).


41 posted on 05/18/2007 9:32:56 AM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
The fool has said in his heart there is NO God..
-OR- Al Gore is smart..
42 posted on 05/18/2007 9:32:56 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

See post 39.


43 posted on 05/18/2007 9:33:07 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges
No one has ever been executed for not being enough of a dis-believer.

With respect, I don't believe that's true. Mao and Stalin both committed democide against groups who didn't believe in Communism and Collectivisation - such as the Kulaks and the bourgois farmers.

44 posted on 05/18/2007 9:33:15 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
On Sunday night, if you listen carefully, you'll hear atheists all over Australia leaning back in their chairs, putting their feet on the coffee table and saying, "I'm with him." And I'll be one of them.

Only a fool saith in his heart there is no God.

45 posted on 05/18/2007 9:33:32 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: Borges

“The continuous disasters of man’s history are mainly due to his
excessive capacity and urge to become identified with a tribe, nation,
church or cause, and to espouse its credo uncritically and
enthusiastically, even if its tenets are contrary to reason, devoid of
self-interest and detrimental to the claims of self-preservation. We
are thus driven to the unfashionable conclusion that the trouble with
our species is not an excess of aggression, but an excess capacity for
fanatical devotion.”
— Arthur Koestler


46 posted on 05/18/2007 9:34:21 AM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

I wonder if Dawkins is a democrat?..


47 posted on 05/18/2007 9:35:06 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Exactly. I think it is very difficult to understand religious belief from the outside. I am an Orthodox Christian. A number of years ago I read an article in Christianity Today titled, "Why I am Not Orthodox" -- written by an evangelical who had lived in Russia for many years and had gone to Orthodox liturgies many times. His critique of Orthodoxy showed that he had no understanding of it whatsoever, and that's because he was looking at it from the outside, years of living in Russia and attending liturgies notwithstanding.
48 posted on 05/18/2007 9:36:00 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (Fred Thompson 2008)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat
...that flatly denies the existence of God and illustrates what a destructive force religion is.

OK, but what does the second part have to do with the first part? Big Religions with their fear-based belief systems and horifying imagery - all projections of the collective human ego - really don't have anything to do with the existence of a Creator or the belief therein. There are many people who believe in God, find that faith life-affirming and real, and at the same time have no use for the current crop of rent-seekers and divisive hate-peddlers who operate in His name and quote moldy, mistranslated, and misunderstood tomes to justify their actions.

Not everyone loves God against human beings.

49 posted on 05/18/2007 9:39:08 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Jakarta ex-pat

Yes, Atheism- the bet of a lifetime- Yup- I’ll throw away the ONLY chance EVER of spending time with God and wager my soul’s eternal existence on the slight chance that there might not be a God- BRILLIANT!

Are these Atheist people complete idiots? Hey Atheists- When you can explain to me what I’ve lost by acceptign a FREE gift from God that will have eternal consequences for my soul, and when you can detail exactly how denying God is a more sure bet in the face of the uncertain prospect of eternity, then Yall come on back- till then- Keep your moronic reasoning to yourself.


50 posted on 05/18/2007 9:39:50 AM PDT by CottShop
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