Posted on 05/19/2007 4:05:05 AM PDT by csvset
To focus only on the misuse of these dogs is to ignore their versatility
not only historically but also in the present.
They have use as farm and ranch dogs, as catch dogs for cattle and hogs,
for vermin control, for hunting, for companionship and for protection.
They are used as therapy dogs, in search and rescue, and as bomb and drug detecting dogs.
Hobbyists use them in weight-pulling, obedience, agility, shitsun and confirmation competitions.
In a well bred and maintained dog of this type
the combination of intelligence, strength, agility, courage, tenacity,
friendliness and gentleness towards humans is unparalleled in the dog world.
Don't judge a whole breed or type of dog
by the ignorant, irresponsible or just plain evil humans
that individual dogs have had the misfortune of coming into contact with.
The toddler, , wandered out the back door of the family's A Avenue home at 4 p.m. Thursday. He moved around to the side of the house, where he was attacked by the dog.
The family bought the adult male pit bull last month as a companion for the family's female pit bull.
"They don't have any reason to believe the child provoked the dog in any way," said Cindy Beavers, spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department. "The parents heard something going on and found the dog attacking the child."
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Is there a good way and a bad way to have your face ripped off? ;~D
So you think an angry black lab or golden retriever and an angry pit bull pose the same risk or can do the same damage to an adult?
Given an "angry" dog, much has to do with the size of the dog.
(as well as the size of the human)
The larger the dog the greater the potential for damage.
Some dogs that are called "pit bulls" are substantially smaller than Labs or GRs
and could possibly pose less risk.
Many dogs are substantially larger than "pit bulls"
and could possibly cause greater damage.
Be that as it may though...
If your face is ripped off, I would guess that
the least of your concerns would be which breed or type of dog did it..
Toddler mauled by neighbor's dog ...
"The surgeon told me that was the worst dog bite he's ever seen in his life"
Here's a recent one from my neck of the woods where there is a "pit bull" ban...
3-Year-Old Child Mauled By Dog
Or this one...Family Dog Shot After Attacking Boy
"...the dog attack was so violent that two adults had to take turns kicking the dog to get him off Josh."
If we want to see less dog attacks, owners must be aware that...
All dogs are capable of biting
Larger dogs can potentially cause greater damage than smaller dogs.
Instead of painting a breed or type of dog with a broad brush,
we would be more effective by analyzing individual dog attacks
and focusing on the factors common to attacks.
Once we have extracted them we can then address them
and offer preventive solutions to all dog bites.
I agree - ONCE the dog has attacked a human and drawn blood (in an attack not an accident) put it down. There are lots of good dogs who need a home.
He’s refering to Ceasar Milan. And the guy is good.
“friendliness and gentleness towards humans is unparalleled in the dog world”
Uhhh.... no. Try Labs, Setters, etc.
“Don’t judge a whole breed or type of dog
by the ignorant, irresponsible or just plain evil humans
that individual dogs have had the misfortune of coming into contact with.”
Once again... the BREED. True, human interaction can exacerbate an issue, but Pit Bulls were bred for fighting. If subsequent training allowed for some other limited or hobbyist uses, fine; but, that doesn’t change the fact that the BREED was bred to fight. Gentleness has to bred out of an animal for something like this.
But, seriously, you like ‘em, I hate ‘em. I won’t change your mind, you won’t change mine and I accept and respect that. But, unfortunately, I will judge this breed by a few bad dogs. I do so because I don’t hear about Collies or Labs, etc. turning on their owners or other people on a regular basis. If I see one in my neighborhood that comes on my property that even curls a lip — that dog is bought and paid for.
Hoss
Take a look at the headlines I posted just above,
notice anything unusual about them?
I won’t change your mind, you won’t change mine and I accept and respect that.
Fair enough, have a nice day!
You have annecdotes. Check out the raw numbers
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
1110 attacks doing bodily harm and 104 deaths from Pit Bulls from 1982 to 2006. Thats twice as many as from any other breed despite the fact that other breeds are more popular. The more popular golden retriever has caused 6 attacks doing bodily harm and one death during that period. It is clear that pitbulls are more dangerous that average dog and I don’t see the point of keeping a more dangerous dog around for any reason other than protection and think it is stupid to keep a dog that posses more potential danger around children.
From the report
“Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity
to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost
as frequently as children. “
” Pit bulls seem to differ
behaviorally from other dogs in having far less inhibition about attacking
people who are larger than they are. They are also notorious for attacking
seemingly without warning, a tendency exacerbated by the custom of docking
pit bulls’ tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. Thus
the adult victim of a pit bull attack may have had little or no opportunity
to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from any other dog. pit bulls’ tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. “
You might look at why an appellate court for the state of Ohio ruled in 2006 that breed-based dangerous dog laws were unconstitutional...The disagreement among experts, (which Clifton is not) as to how much factual information statistics provide is one reason for the ruling. But I like this one best:
"Our review of the record reveals no current statistics since 1996 were presented to support the notion that pit bulls have continued to be involved in a *disproportionate number* of attacks or fatalities."
I’m sorry. I should have said from the start that pit bulls are just as harmless as labs. Thats why drug dealers and street thugs prefer to have chocolate labs and golden retrievers.
See post #61.
Thanks for your post ARridgerunner.
I worked late last night and then stayed up even later composing
what I hoped were some thoughtful and well presented posts.
Then up early this morning and back to the thread again.
I was giving some thought to my reply to SmoothTalker's post
when I had to leave for my grand-daughters birthday party.
Sam was a big hit with everyone, well behaved and he got to go for a swim.
Everything went fine until a couple of young know-nothing inlaws and their friends
decided to start pontificating on how Bush was like Hitler,
bemoaning the lost of innocent lives in Iraq
(where were their bleeding hearts when Saddam was on his murderous rampage)
and saying that Harper received money illegally for his campaign from the evil Bushes.
I felt like I was privy to some MoveOn stink tank session.
Finally I blew up and to their surprise let them know
in no uncertain terms that I support Bush and the battle in Iraq
that I had voted for Harper and was a member of the Conservative party,
that they were full of excrement and I wasn't sticking around to hear anymore of it.
So anyways I came back here wanting to respond to SmoothTalker
but feeling tired and not very long on patience
and concerned that I might be less than polite.
Your post covered much of what I wanted to and more, and in a better manner.
I'd only add that as well as not being a dog expert Clifton is or is skirting the line
of a being an eco-freak and animal rights wacko.
He's the fellow, for one example, who puts out that...
Acid Rain Kills More People than AIDS...
annually 50,000 in the US and 11,000 in Canada.
His ideas about "pit bulls" rely on unsubstantiated conjecture and appeal to hysteria...
"seem to differ behaviorally....notorious...seemingly without warning"
And where does he get this business about..."the custom of docking pit bulls’ tails "
I know many "pit bulls" and have seen many pictures and videos,
including some of fighting dogs and 'gangsta' dogs
yet the only "pit bull" I know or recall ever having seen with a docked tail is my own
and that was done because he had a bad kink in it when he was born
and it would have interfered with his pooping.
Is it really a custom?...Am I missing something?
SmoothTalker, you may see my examples as only anecdotes but I see preventable tragedies.
Each as unnecessary and avoidable as any other.
I dedicate my time and energy to lessening these awful attacks.
I am not an advocate for "pit bulls" or "pit bull ownership".
I am well aware of the numerous studies of attacks, fatal and otherwise.
Too many people own them that shouldn't.
It takes a dedicated, knowledgeable and responsible person to be proper owner.
Well bred and maintained they are wonderful dogs.
I say the same about numerous dogs,
particularly medium and large breeds where the potential for danger
is greater than that for smaller breeds.
I am an advocate of responsible dog ownership.
Responsible dog ownership is key too reducing the number of attacks.
Unless your purpose is limited only to jihad on "pit bulls"
I hope you can join with me and others
in promoting responsible ownership and bringing down these attack numbers.
I don't think so, but I stay within my own circles, pretty much. I've never seen a pitbull with a docked tail. I don't know what he is talking about and I strongly suspect he doesn't either.
Jihad on pitbulls? Slow your roll chief and cut down on the caffeine. The fact is most pitbulls are nice dogs. The other fact is that when one gets aggressive it can do substantially more damage than the average dog. There is a reason you don’t read about border collies killing folks on a regular basis.
There is a reason folks use them for dog fighting and not labs or irish setters.The reason is they are powerful animals with very strong jaws and an abilty to be extremely aggressive. I think its very irresponsible to buy one if you have young children. Will there be a problem? Most likely not but there is a higher risk than with other breeds and its stupid to expose your kids (and others around you) to a higher risk if you can get just as much companionship from another breed.
LOL Okay!
It was more of an interrogative-conditional than declarative statement
but if that's as bad as I got then I won't berate myself too much.
Believe me after seeing some of the comments on these type of threads,
'jihad on pitbulls' isn't that far out of a characterization.
A responsible owner and parent, with a properly socialized dog
and properly supervised children should have no problem.
Where problems are likely to occur are in cases with factors such as the one in Post#62.
Unsupervised child with, what I think can safely be assumed, an intact male.
throw in a couple of braindead parents possibly breeding for a quick buck
and you got yourself the classic recipe for disaster.
Check out these cases from 1995-99
See how many involve an "Unsupervised child" or an "infant death".
All those children could be alive today if their parents responsibly supervised them.
Here what one study had to say about intact dogs...
"...an examination of the dogs involved in fatal attacks from Jan. 2000 thru Dec. 2005, reveal that the overwhelming majority of dogs involved were unaltered.Of the fatalities during this 6 year period, 92% of the dogs involved were unaltered (not spayed or neutered).Coincidentally, my dog met his first newborn today.
I have a pair of seven and nine year old grand-daughters.
He is fine with them but I never leave them unsupervised.
Personally I wouldn't want any dog while I had children.
Having the responsibility of one or the other is quite enough for me.
It was only after my children grew up that I was able to convince myself
that there was room in my life and heart for a dog.
God brought me my dog at just the perfect time in my life.
Be careful, there. A special dog can shred your heart in ways no human can. I had one, once. Still have dreams about her. (She was a pitbull.)
What’s shitsun? Sounds like a hot and smelly hobby.
Ahhh...that would be kanawa not checking the spelling before posting.
On the other hand...
Schutzhund (German for "protection dog") tests dogs of all breeds for the traits necessary for police-type work. Dogs that pass Schutzhund tests should be suitable for a wide variety of tasks: police work, specific odor detection, search and rescue, and many others. The purpose of Schutzhund is to identify dogs that have or do not have the character traits required for these demanding jobs.
~
Modern Schutzhund consists of three phases: tracking, obedience, and protection
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