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To: Stultis
Do you dispute the fact that al Qaeda, Bin Laden, Zawahiri, and like minded jihadists and radical Islamists generally, from Sayyid Qutb to the present, have prominently and repeatedly cited democracy as one of the major threats/conspiracies from the West?

Yes...I dispute that AQ has ever expressed any care about the form of government under which we Americans live. Do you have any links to AQ statements to the contrary?

40 posted on 05/21/2007 6:52:03 AM PDT by Irontank (Ron Paul for President)
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To: Irontank
Yes...I dispute that AQ has ever expressed any care about the form of government under which we Americans live. Do you have any links to AQ statements to the contrary?

See, for instance:

Al Qaeda Leader Fears American Democracy, Not Its War Machine ^
  Posted by rob777
On News/Activism ^ 07/24/2004 1:43:43 AM CDT · 25 replies · 841+ views


ChronWatch ^ | September 07, 2003 | Amir Taheri
''It is not the American war machine that should be of the utmost concern to Muslims. What threatens the future of Islam, in fact its very survival, is American democracy.'' This is the message of a new book, published by Al Qaeda in several Arab countries yesterday. The book’s title is ''The Future of Iraq and The Arabian Peninsula After The Fall of Baghdad.'' Its author is Yussuf al-Ayyeri, one of Osama Ben Laden’s closest associates since the early 1990s. A Saudi citizen, Al-Ayyeri, also known under the nom de guerre of Abu Muhammad, was killed in a gun-battle with...
 

Excerpt:

Al-Ayyeri argues that the history of mankind is the story of ''perpetual war between belief and unbelief.''

Over the millennia, both belief and unbelief have appeared in different guises. As far as belief is concerned, the absolutely final version is represented by Islam which ''annuls all other religions and creeds.'' Thus, Muslims can have only one goal: converting the entire humanity to Islam and ''effacing the final traces of all other religions, creeds and ideologies.''

Unbelief (kufr), however, has come in numerous forms and shapes, but with a single objective: to destroy faith in God. In the West, unbelief has succeeded in making a majority of people forget God and worship the world. Islam, however, is resisting the trend because Allah means to give it final victory.

Al Ayyeri then shows how various forms of unbelief attacked the world of Islam in the past century or so, to be defeated in one way or another.

[*SNIPPAGE* These are Modernism, Nationalism, Socialism/Communism, and Baathism which combined nationalism and socialism.]

And now the US and its British allies have destroyed Ba’athism in Iraq and may have fatally undermined its position in Syria as well.

What Al Ayyeri sees now is a ''clean battlefield'' in which Islam faces a new form of unbelief.

This, he labels: ''secularist democracy.''

Al Ayyeri asserts that this new threat is ''far more dangerous to Islam'' than all its predecessors combined.

The reasons, he explains in a whole chapter, must be sought in democracy’s ''seductive capacities.'' This form of ''unbelief'' persuades the people that they are in charge of their destiny and that, using their collective reasoning, they can shape policies and pass laws as they see fit. That leads them into ignoring the ''unalterable laws'' promulgated by God for the whole of mankind, and codified in the Islamic Shariah ( jurisprudence) until the end of time.

The goal of democracy, according to Al Ayyeri, is to ''make Muslims love this world, forget the next world, and abandon Jihad.'' If established in any Muslim country for a reasonably long time, democracy could lead to economic prosperity which, in turn, would make Muslims ''reluctant to die in martyrdom'' in defence of their faith.

He says that it is vital to prevent any normalisation and stabilisation in Iraq. Muslim militants should make sure that the U.S. does not succeed in holding elections in Iraq and creating a democratic government.

''If democracy comes to Iraq, the next target (for democratisation) would be the whole of the Muslim world,'' Al Ayyeri writes.

The Al Qaeda ideologist claims that the only Muslim country already affected by ''the beginning of democratisation'' and thus in ''mortal danger'' is Turkey.

''Do we want what happened in Turkey to happen to all Muslim countries?'' he asks. ''Do we want Muslims to refuse taking part in Jiahd and submit to secularism which is a Zionist-Crusader concoction?''

Al Ayyeri says, Iraq would become the graveyard of secular democracy just as Afghanistan became the graveyard of Communism. The reason is that most Americans are afraid of death while the overwhelming majority of Muslims love to die for the glory of Allah.

The idea is that the Americans, faced with mounting casualties in Iraq, will “just run away” as did the Soviets in Afghanistan. This is because the Americans love this world and concerned about nothing but their own comfort while Muslims dream of the pleasures that martyrdom offers in paradise.

''In Iraq today, there are only two sides,'' Al Ayyeri asserts. ''Here we have a clash of two visions of the world and the future of mankind. The side prepared to accept more sacrifices will win.''


41 posted on 05/21/2007 3:26:19 PM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Irontank
More:

Listen to Zarqawi: Our enemies do hate freedom. (agrees with Bush's view) ^
  Posted by baseball_fan
On News/Activism ^ 01/26/2005 10:21:24 PM CST · 4 replies · 382+ views


National Review Online ^ | January 26, 2005 | Jonah Goldberg
...Washington Post's Richard Cohen wrote, "As the late Susan Sontag bravely pointed out in a New Yorker essay published right after Sept. 11, 2001, those terrorist attacks were in response to American policy in the Middle East — not, as Bush has said repeatedly since, because Islamic radicals cannot abide freedom." … Patrick Buchanan — allegedly on the other side of the ideological spectrum — has declared countless times, "Osama bin Laden and his crew up there in Tora Bora did not stumble on a copy of the Bill of Rights and go berserk that Americans are free in the...
 

Excerpts:

Earlier this month the Washington Post's Richard Cohen wrote, "As the late Susan Sontag bravely pointed out in a New Yorker essay published right after Sept. 11, 2001, those terrorist attacks were in response to American policy in the Middle East — not, as Bush has said repeatedly since, because Islamic radicals cannot abide freedom."

And Patrick Buchanan — allegedly on the other side of the ideological spectrum — has declared countless times, "Osama bin Laden and his crew up there in Tora Bora did not stumble on a copy of the Bill of Rights and go berserk that Americans are free in the United States."

[...]

But before the cackles could reach their crescendo, the naysayers hit an inconvenient snag. Musab al-Zarqawi, the "prince" of al Qaeda in Iraq, appointed by Osama Bin Laden, came out and agreed with President Bush. "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology," Zarqawi declared in a statement. "Democracy is also based on the right to choose your religion," he said, and that is "against the rule of God."

You can almost hear Cohen and Buchanan snapping their pencils "Darn it, stop stepping on my message!"

Zarqawi's declaration came after a statement by bin Laden himself in December, in which he pronounced: "Anyone who participates in these elections has committed apostasy against Allah."

Now, this doesn't mean that bin Laden and Zarqawi aren't motivated by less lofty — or merely different — principles than an Islamist rejection of democracy. To be sure, bin Laden's initial grievances included America's relationship to Saudi Arabia, Israel and all the usual complaints. But underlying these gripes was an ideology — and remains an ideology — opposed to freedom and democracy. The intellectual founder of Islamism, Sayyid Qutb, wrote in 1957: "In the world there is only one party, the party of Allah; all of the others are parties of Satan and rebellion. Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of the rebellion."

If you peruse the incalculably valuable website Memri.org — which translates articles, manifestoes, and broadcasts from across the Arabic world — you will find countless declarations from Islamist groups declaring that democracy is an "atheist" heresy that replaces the law of God with the law of man, and that anyone who advocates elections is ipso facto an infidel. In his December statement, Osama bin Laden "ruled" — as if he has any right to do so — that Iraqi forces who aid the upcoming elections "are apostates who should not be prayed over upon their deaths. They cannot inherit, and they must not be inherited from [after their deaths]. Their wives are divorced from them, and they must not be buried in Muslim cemeteries."

Sure sounds like someone hates democracy to me.

Those who pooh-pooh the notion that our enemies hate freedom believe that such ideologically totalitarian movements can exist within their own borders indefinitely. All we have to do is treat them like a hornet's nest and don't upset them (no matter that they topple their own governments and seek ever more conquests).

Unfortunately, we live in a world where a bunch of antidemocratic and homicidal zealots can make life dangerous for all of us. "Not our fight," the president's critics seem to say. But if they're wrong, thousands or millions could die as a result. And, like it or not, that fight is in Iraq right now.


42 posted on 05/21/2007 3:38:46 PM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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