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Don't Run for the Border - America needs immigration reform, but not a law enacted in haste
The Wall Street Journal ^ | May 21, 2007 | John Fund

Posted on 05/21/2007 3:39:25 AM PDT by Zakeet

It's understandable that the White House and its Senate negotiating partners want to rush through the compromise immigration bill they agreed to Thursday. Supporters acknowledge that the delicately balanced legislation could collapse if a single destructive amendment is attached to it. Its sponsors admit they want to minimize the political debate. "We all know this issue can be caught up in extracurricular politics unless we move forward as quickly as possible," says Sen. John McCain , a key architect of the bill.

But this is no way to debate the most sweeping change to our nation's immigration laws in two decades--especially since the last comprehensive attempt, the Immigration Reform and Control Act, failed so spectacularly. The new bill is set to pass with much less analysis in the Senate than the 1986 law, known as Simpson-Mazzoli, had. Senators did not even receive the bill draft until midnight Saturday. After a test vote scheduled for today, Majority Leader Harry Reid is planning a final vote on the bill this Thursday, only one week after the compromise was struck. Shouldn't senators have time to actually read the bill they're being asked to vote on?

Even a key supporter of the bill, Sen. Jon Kyl or Arizona, admitted to radio host Hugh Hewitt that "we don't have to rush the bill through the Senate in a week. . . . Hopefully, the majority leader would allow it to carry over beyond the Memorial Day recess so we could complete it."

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; illegalaliens; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; immigrationreform
What a change in position by the WS Journal!

For those who missed the excitement, on Saturday the Journal pretty much endorsed the Kennedy Release and Amnesty Plan ("KRAP"), as you can see here. Their readership flamed them in no uncertain terms for that position as you can see here. Accordingly, the Journal has backed down substantially by taking the position that we need to at least wade through the 1,000 pages of KRAP before we vote on it.

From time to time, forums like this, and the opinions of readers do make a difference.

1 posted on 05/21/2007 3:39:31 AM PDT by Zakeet
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To: Zakeet
From time to time, forums like this, and the opinions of readers do make a difference.

Way more than we might think. I see ideas from my blog show up in all sorts of places. At least, I think I do.

You sure at your Journal early. Good cub.

2 posted on 05/21/2007 3:44:34 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Thank you St. Jude.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

John McCain the main agent in the sale of America.

He wants to be President? I wouldnt vote for him for dog catcher.


3 posted on 05/21/2007 3:46:56 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I'm gonna vote for Fred. John Bolton for VP.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

This is the closest the WSJ can come to arguing that the people should decide and that there should be a public referendum on immigration. A step in the right
direction. Maybe even a realization that they won’t get their open borders?


4 posted on 05/21/2007 3:51:03 AM PDT by joeu (Chinese Translations and Interpreting)
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To: Zakeet
What a change in position by the WS Journal!

It's not a change in position. This is John Fund's column, not 'Review & Outlook'.

5 posted on 05/21/2007 3:51:08 AM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: Zakeet

Actually, we don’t need immigration reform and we don’t need a huge act of congress and we don’t need to be stuck with the status quo. What we need is to simply enforce the laws already on the books.


6 posted on 05/21/2007 3:53:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson (Our God-given unalienable rights are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: Zakeet

“What a change in position by the WS Journal!”

A betting man might suggest the change is little more than skin deep.


7 posted on 05/21/2007 3:54:52 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
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To: Zakeet
Their readership flamed them in no uncertain terms for that position

Perhaps there's a wee bit of hope for us yet.

8 posted on 05/21/2007 3:55:53 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: Zakeet

Good points... I’m really amazed that the Administration and GOP “Leaders” all seem so ignorant of the internet, to the point of being surprised when something stupid that they’ve done (Harriet Miers nomination) gets slammed and they are surprised. In many ways, they should be using the internet to float trial balloons and to identify real problems in policies that are being developed. Whether they like it or not, there really is “wisdom” in the Mob.

Rather than relying on their, I’m sure, competent staffs to review pieces of legislation like this, they should be watching the analyses emerging from various blogs and see the issues that generate the real contention and be prepared to address those concerns.

JMHO.


9 posted on 05/21/2007 3:56:02 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds ("You ask, 'What is our aim?' I can answer in one word: VICTORY - victory - at all costs...")
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To: sgtbono2002

Fred Thompson/John Bolton ‘08, I’ll buy that.


10 posted on 05/21/2007 3:56:05 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...call 'em what you will...They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: sgtbono2002

“John McCain the main agent in the sale of America.”

I’d say he’s number 2, right after Bush.


11 posted on 05/21/2007 3:56:39 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
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To: wgflyer

Bush has turned into his father.


12 posted on 05/21/2007 3:58:26 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Satan is working both sides of the street in World Socialism and World Courts.)
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To: Zakeet
Hopefully, the majority leader would allow it to carry over beyond the Memorial Day recess so we could complete it

It would be too much to hope that Republicans could filibuster it.

13 posted on 05/21/2007 3:59:34 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
“I’m really amazed that the Administration and GOP “Leaders” all seem so ignorant of the internet”

Closest the President get’s to a PC is Atari 2300.

14 posted on 05/21/2007 4:02:46 AM PDT by wolfcreek (DON'T MESS WITH A NATION IN NEED OF MEDICATION !)
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To: HAL9000

Algore gts aweay with saying the dbate is over on GW. Now McCain thinks he knows best. Anyone else see a pattern, here?


15 posted on 05/21/2007 4:06:20 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: sgtbono2002

Opposition to the Kennedy Immigration Bill is growing, and rightfully so. Here’s some good reading on the issue; stay informed, and spread
the word that this bill is bad for America.

“Don’t Be Fooled.”
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OWMwNDIyNjBmNDRjMTNjYWM3ODg5ZWU0OTZiMTMyZjg

Lots of good links and info
http://corner.nationalreview.com/

“No Matter What You Call It, It’s Amnesty.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MmViN2Y4NzYyMmVlNzE4OWNiN2M0YTIwMWQ2NDUxOTQ
=

Fred Thompson: “Scrap it.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjEzYTc5YjA2ZGNiZjlmZDJkMTllYmE4MjE3ZmY1OTY
=

“Bipartisan Fantasy.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NWQxN2JiNTEwNzU4NDY1Y2EzZjQ3N2Y1OGNlMDk0ZTg
=


16 posted on 05/21/2007 4:07:03 AM PDT by stopem (God Bless the U.S.A the Troops who protect her, and their Commander In Chief !)
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To: Jim Robinson
Actually, we don’t need immigration reform and we don’t need a huge act of congress and we don’t need to be stuck with the status quo. What we need is to simply enforce the laws already on the books.

Amen.

That should be the rallying cry against this Bill.

17 posted on 05/21/2007 4:08:03 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! -Abe Lincoln)
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To: PapaBear3625
Hopefully, the majority leader would allow it to carry over beyond the Memorial Day recess so we could complete it It would be too much to hope that Republicans could filibuster it.

I think it might die in the House, where public opinion has more effect.

18 posted on 05/21/2007 4:09:29 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! -Abe Lincoln)
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To: fortheDeclaration

One point that I keep trying to make is that it is the state and local governments, not the federal government, that are the problem in this. People complain about the Feds not deporting illegals - but how can they, when many of our biggest cities have laws preventing law enforcement, hospitals or schools from enquiring about immigration status or reporting it if it is not in order? Federal funding for “bilingual” miseducation has been massively reduced under Bush, yet individual states and municipalities have gone ahead and funded it anyway with local taxpayer dollars. Federal welfare dollars cannot be given to illegal immigrants; yet local government gets around this in any number of creative ways, mostly by never inquiring about immigration status. Voting regulations that do not demand ID or provide materials in languages other than English or permit non-English speakers to have “assistance” in voting are also local provisions.

So in many ways, I find the debate over federal law to be almost meaningless, simply because any law itself is going to be meaningless as long as states and municipalities can simply do what they want to thwart it. I sometimes find it ironic that Freepers, of all people, think the Federal government can wave a magic wand and everything will be alright.

This, of course, is directly the result of the Dem party, which sees this as a way of harvesting voters and works hard to keep its farm of captive immigrants. But except for one or two local initiatives I have read about recently, I have not seen anyone here complain about the level of government where these policies are actually happening.

I am in favor of a guest worker program, btw, because most Mexicans actually want to be able to legally go back to Mexico after they have earned some money here. But the state and local Dems have a vested interest in keeping them here, so regardless of what Congress does, I don’t think there will be any change.


19 posted on 05/21/2007 4:14:10 AM PDT by livius
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To: HAL9000

I agree with you. This is Mr. Fund’s opinion. I am sure it will be “noted” in the halls of power at the WSJ.

I gave up my 45 year subscription to the paper solely because of this issue. In addition, I stopped contributing to the Club for Growth because of its refusal to have a position on immigration.


20 posted on 05/21/2007 4:14:11 AM PDT by nygoose
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To: wgflyer

No matter how much you like George Bush ,and I do, His position on Illegals and immigration and dealing with Mexico are despicable.


21 posted on 05/21/2007 4:16:57 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I'm gonna vote for Fred. John Bolton for VP.)
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To: wgflyer
“John McCain the main agent in the sale of America.”

I’d say he’s number 2, right after Bush.

Tied for #2...


22 posted on 05/21/2007 4:24:54 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Zakeet
in the age of the Internet the people have to be consulted.

Before the age of the Internet we had an age in which our elected representatives had to go mounted over rough roads with icy streams that must be forded. Sometimes they were luckier, but only marginally so, if they could ride in a carriage. John Adams had to literally risk his life on our behalf in his midwinter ocean crossings to get back and forth from Europe. There was no Internet then, no telephone, no telegraph, and the post was at best irregular. Nevertheless, the country was superbly represented.

Today we have the option of seeing it all in print in real time on the Internet but our own elected representatives foreclose us. Not surprisingly, we are less well represented today than we were 250 years ago.

I believe the Republican Party and with it the conservative movement is sleepwalking toward electoral disaster in 2008 and something must be done to shake up the party and the whole process. If this immigration bill is passed intact, or if we lose the election, we will face a time in the wilderness which will approach Moses' exile. I think John Fund has offered us an opening here not only to derail this ill-conceived immigration bill but to change the entire electoral process itself. Where is Newt Gingrich when we need him to scream to high heaven about the high handedness of this elitism? This is right up his futuristic alley.

Convert this incoate disaster into a crusade against Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi and the entire elitist Democrat establishment. Here is our chance for a new contract with America. Is there not a reliable Republican who can write it?


23 posted on 05/21/2007 4:25:38 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("I like to legislate. I feel I've done a lot of good." Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: nygoose
I gave up my 45 year subscription to the paper solely because of this issue.

45 years as a subscriber - that's an impressive length of time.

In addition, I stopped contributing to the Club for Growth because of its refusal to have a position on immigration.

A lot of Club for Growth supporters haven't noticed that fact.

24 posted on 05/21/2007 4:26:29 AM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: sgtbono2002

“No matter how much you like George Bush ,and I do, His position on Illegals and immigration and dealing with Mexico are despicable.”

His illegal immigration stance is the tip of the iceberg, for me. I hope more stout supporters of this man might finally understand what he is doing to us internally.


25 posted on 05/21/2007 4:27:19 AM PDT by wgflyer (Liberalism is to society what HIV is to the immune system.)
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To: livius
One point that I keep trying to make is that it is the state and local governments, not the federal government, that are the problem in this. People complain about the Feds not deporting illegals - but how can they, when many of our biggest cities have laws preventing law enforcement, hospitals or schools from enquiring about immigration status or reporting it if it is not in order? Federal funding for “bilingual” miseducation has been massively reduced under Bush, yet individual states and municipalities have gone ahead and funded it anyway with local taxpayer dollars. Federal welfare dollars cannot be given to illegal immigrants; yet local government gets around this in any number of creative ways, mostly by never inquiring about immigration status. Voting regulations that do not demand ID or provide materials in languages other than English or permit non-English speakers to have “assistance” in voting are also local provisions.

The only reason the local governments are getting away with this is because the Fed's are letting them do so.

It is the responsiblity to make sure that the illegals don't get into America in the first place.

Those local areas are violating Federal law and are endanging national security.

So in many ways, I find the debate over federal law to be almost meaningless, simply because any law itself is going to be meaningless as long as states and municipalities can simply do what they want to thwart it. I sometimes find it ironic that Freepers, of all people, think the Federal government can wave a magic wand and everything will be alright.

They can do alot more than they are doing!

First, get control of the Border.

Second, get control of the student visa program.

The complaint by the Fed's is that they are short manpower and resources.

Alright, lets give them what they need, as we do our military and see what happens.

The local governments are not going to stand against the Federal government when it want something done that the majority of the people also want done.

This, of course, is directly the result of the Dem party, which sees this as a way of harvesting voters and works hard to keep its farm of captive immigrants. But except for one or two local initiatives I have read about recently, I have not seen anyone here complain about the level of government where these policies are actually happening.

I don't think anyone on this forum gives a free pass to those cities that are giving haven to the illegals.

However, the Federal government could end that very quickly by simply going in and taking them and deporting them.

The local governments could do nothing to stop that.

I am in favor of a guest worker program, btw, because most Mexicans actually want to be able to legally go back to Mexico after they have earned some money here. But the state and local Dems have a vested interest in keeping them here, so regardless of what Congress does, I don’t think there will be any change.

On that we agree.

I have no problem with a Mexican coming in as a legimate worker.

But they are not eligable for our social benefits, nor to become citizens.

Illegals have given up their ability to become U.S. citizens by ignoring its laws regarding immigration and employment.

26 posted on 05/21/2007 4:28:55 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! -Abe Lincoln)
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To: Zakeet

I bet the Washington D.C. lawmakers fondly wish for the good ole days before computers, like 20 or 30 years ago, when they could pass new laws like this without the public having a clue.

The only new laws we need are: 1.Eliminate immigrant welfare, and 2. Eliminate citizenship for anchor or border babies.


27 posted on 05/21/2007 4:45:41 AM PDT by redstates4ever
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To: Zakeet

Actually, I would like to have the opportunity to vote on this issue. Let them bring about several different bills, do a campaign of the differences, then let the American people decide. Lord knows our representatives are only interested in keeping their jobs, not doing what “We the People” want.


28 posted on 05/21/2007 4:50:37 AM PDT by redlocks322
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To: wgflyer
I’d say he’s number 2, right after Bush.

"That's right, I'm numero uno."


29 posted on 05/21/2007 4:50:56 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: Zakeet
Don't Run for the Border - America needs immigration reform, but not a law enacted in haste

Wrong, John. We need border enforcement. When globalists argue that we can't round up 12 million illegals they are admitting that they have no intention of enforcing laws against employing illegals. If illegals can't get jobs, no one will have to round them up - they'll leave on their own. Got that Bill O'Reilly?

30 posted on 05/21/2007 4:55:52 AM PDT by Nephi (Open borders is the flip side of the free trade coin. It's time for Protectionism.)
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To: Zakeet
Write, call, email, fax... and DO NOT STOP. Build the tidal wave that we need to KILL THIS BILL!

Links and contact info:


CONTACT YOUR REPS NOW

MORE CONTACT INFO

Stop Amnesty Now!

31 posted on 05/21/2007 4:58:51 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU ARE A SOCIALIST WITH NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.)
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To: wgflyer
I’d say he’s number 2

I'll say. McCain is number 2.

32 posted on 05/21/2007 4:59:54 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Zakeet

>>That’s like trying to eat an eight-course meal on a 15-minute lunch break,” said former senator Fred Thompson on ABC Radio Friday.<<

I would say it’s like trying to eat something that I wouldn’t think of putting in my hand, let alone my mouth.


33 posted on 05/21/2007 5:00:18 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
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To: Jim Robinson; All

TOUCHE’, Jim

There is not much of a need in many areas that require the legislating of NEW laws. Enforcement of laws already on the books is really all that is needed.

When will they get down to doing it, enforcing laws already in place?


34 posted on 05/21/2007 5:01:05 AM PDT by 66-442hot (It isn't smart to kill the golden goose........)
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To: Zakeet
First build Duncan Hunter’s border fence!

All 854 miles of it!

Only then should we worry about “immigration reform”.

And in the mean time, keep deporting illegals and end “catch and release” programs.

Also, defund any “sanctuary cities” of federal funds.

35 posted on 05/21/2007 5:01:20 AM PDT by airborne (Duncan Hunter is the only real choice for honest to goodness conservatives!)
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To: livius
I am in favor of a guest worker program, btw, because most Mexicans actually want to be able to legally go back to Mexico after they have earned some money here.
Already on the books!
USA VISA INFORMATION CENTER
The most common USA Visa is a "Nonimmigrant" Visa - this is for someone who intends to come to the USA "temporarily" and for a specific purpose. Typically on an H1B Work Visa, F1 Study Visa, L1 Intra-Company Transfer Visa, K and V Fiancee Visas.
An "Immigrant" Visa is for someone who intends to relocate to the USA, to live and work "permanently" (Green Card - Lawful Permanent Residents).

Temporary Workers
Employers who wish to hire foreign workers to temporarily perform services or labor or to receive training may file an I-129 petition. The I-129 is mainly used for nonimmigrant categories; thus, in most cases, workers who enter the United States under this petition must depart the U.S. when their maximum period of stay has been reached. Form I-129 may also be used to petition for an extension of stay or change of status for certain nonimmigrants.

36 posted on 05/21/2007 5:05:02 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: nathanbedford

Good post, I too think that this Amnesty bill may be a Waterloo moment that is awakening the anger of the large and mostly conservative american middleclass...the Heartlanders so to speak. Accountability can now be more than just election time sloganeering...


37 posted on 05/21/2007 5:11:43 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: Zakeet
As a long time subscriber to the WSJ, I was amazed at the readers response to the OJ pro-Immigration article. The only counter poster was the WSJ mole from Mass... McCafferty, who gets published every time they need an opposing/lefty poster...McCafferty sure was swimming against the tide on Saturday....friggin open Border idiots at the WSJ, just don’t get it!
38 posted on 05/21/2007 5:15:53 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: fortheDeclaration

The point that I am trying to make is that, unless we have a Federal police force that is going to be able to stop every passerby on the street, demand ID and take away those who are not legal residents, we are going to have to rely on states and municipalities to do their job. But they’re not doing it, and some of them are blatantly announcing that they won’t (the “sanctuary cities,” etc.).

The Ft Dix terrorists from Albania had been here illegally for something like 20 years, going all the way through the local school and healthcare systems, during which time it must surely have become obvious to somebody that they were not legal residents. But nothing ever happened to them, and it appears that there were never any reports of their illegal presence here - until their arrests.

Unless we have a level of federal surveillance and manpower that I don’t think anybody in this country wants, we’re going to have to know that local governments will monitor things and plan to enforce the law. But they don’t, and I see nothing that is likely to make them change. I don’t see anything in anybody’s suggestions that would be able to rein in the local governments without their claiming violation of their Constitutional powers. I think controlling funds to them for other things, dependent upon their cooperation, might help - but you know that’s not going to happen!

I do agree that the student visa situation, which could be monitored by the Feds, is completely out of control. These people have to apply to the Fed gov directly, report to authorities, etc., and yet they are allowed to simply disappear into the general population and do not seem to be actively pursued by anybody. Furthermore, I think it’s a real mistake to start issuing even more of these things. They’re just terrorist permits, particularly since we are actually increasing the quantities that we are issuing to the people and states that hate us the most. Even the proposal to admit only “more educated” workers is insane, because it means that we will be admitting more people dysfunctional Middle Easterners who have been “educated” to hate us even more.


39 posted on 05/21/2007 5:24:29 AM PDT by livius
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To: Zakeet

Plug the dyke FIRST. Then pump out all the solids that seeped through. (sorry for the plumbing metaphor but it’s how I’m thinking today) Build the fence, enforce the laws.


40 posted on 05/21/2007 5:35:41 AM PDT by showme_the_Glory (ILLEGAL: prohibited by law. ALIEN: Owing political allegiance to another country or government)
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To: Zakeet
Ouch! Flame them their readers did! Here's an eloquently in-your-face summation of the issue by one of WSJ's grossed out readers:

What Then?
Julie Mckinley - Austin, Texas

And after these 12 million elect a socialist-type government, as is the usual inclination in Latin America, and the U.S. has an unemployment rate like that of France (or Brazil), will the WSJ megabrains tell us how to fix the problem? Or will you all be living in gated compounds next to the Clintons in their new Dominican Republic retreat? And after you have succeeded in turning the U.S. into a Latin American plutocracy, where U.S. businesses have paid the "fines" for their indentured servants, a.k.a. Z visa employees, and the middle class has disappeared, will you have any shame at all? Hasta la vista.

41 posted on 05/21/2007 5:35:45 AM PDT by starbase (Understanding Written Propaganda (click "starbase" to learn 22 manipulating tricks!!))
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To: philman_36

Not only are there visas available for “guest workers”, there is already a “path to citizenship” available.

Many have taken it.


42 posted on 05/21/2007 5:37:11 AM PDT by EEDUDE (The more I know, the less I understand...)
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To: Thud

ping


43 posted on 05/21/2007 5:41:48 AM PDT by Dark Wing
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To: Zakeet

We (America, the people who have pledged our allegiance to the collection of individual states that make up this great union) do not need immigration code reform (codewords for a method whereby illegal trespassors are, by legislation, suddenly insulated from the effects of the legal system they have and continue to intentionally ignore and violate). We need illegal aliens’ legalization by deportation, litigation, not by legislation.

America can NEVER restore the rule of and respect for law by revising the law to fit the illegal and lawmakers who think revision is the only way prove they’re the utter fools. How do you make the illegal legal? by destroying the law.


44 posted on 05/21/2007 5:49:36 AM PDT by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

ping


45 posted on 05/21/2007 10:06:29 AM PDT by gubamyster
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