After Falwell, evangelicals at crossroads (younger generation ok with same sex marriage)

MSNBC ^ | May 22, 2007 | Alan Cooperman

[presently no screen name]

I expect this will be a non-issue

Only to those who could care less about God's Word and, thus, eternal life w/HIM.

[NYer]

They are forgetting the roots of evangelicalism. Those roots were to accept a belief on God and to have a personal relationship with the Lord by obeying His commandments and reading His Word, the Bible.

That is part of the problem.

"If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:15

Notice Paul indicates that the Church is the 'bulwark of the truth'. This means that all the truth Jesus left us concerning faith, morality and our salvation flows from a living Church which is built by Christ upon the rock of Peter and his successors. As the Catholic Church teaches, God has given us His truth in the form of the living word (written Scriptures and oral tradition) and the living teaching authority of the Church, endowed with the gift of binding and loosing. In fact, it is because the Church is the foundation of truth that we believe in the Bible. This is because the Catholic Church put the Bible together by determining which books were inspired and which books were not. The Church completed its selection of the "canon of Scripture" at the end of the fourth century. If the Catholic Church were not the pinnacle and bulwark of the truth, our belief in the Bible would be without foundation.

[presently no screen name]

Rev. Page sounds like a huge mistake on the part of the Convention. He follows people like Dr. Stanley, but he is a mistake - everybody is entitled to one mistake...

just masterful

Thanks for the compliment but it isn't warranted. You said he follows people like Dr. Stanley and then you went onto describe Dr. Stanley's view on narrow thinking - which Pages' is different than Dr. Stanley's; thus, my question. You know what you meant - I didn't and still don't. But let's just forget I asked - you seem too busy being in the attack mode.

[viper592]

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 “The experts in the law and the Pharisees sit on Moses’seat.
Mat 23:3 Therefore pay attention to what they tell you and do it. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they teach.
Mat 23:4 They tie up heavy loads, hard to carry, and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing even to lift a finger to move them.
Mat 23:5 They do all their deeds to be seen by people, for they make their phylacteries wide and their tassels long.
Mat 23:6 They love the place of honor at banquets and the best seats in the synagogues
Mat 23:7 and elaborate greetings in the marketplaces, and to have people call them ‘Rabbi.’
Mat 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And call no one your ‘father’ on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one teacher, the Christ.
Mat 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

[presently no screen name]

Maybe I didn’t say it just right.

I was confused because of 'Page following Dr. Stanley' and then describing Dr. Stanley's views - opposite of Pages'. I jumped on it because Dr. Stanley is a great teacher. I've been watching/listening to Dr. Stanley for 18 years. Great teacher indeed. Perhaps he will take Page aside and read him the riot act. Let's hope, anyway.

[Celtman]

      Actually, Dr. Falwell was not an evangelist, but a pastor.  He was not an evangelical, but a fundamentalist. 

      It seems to me that the mainstream media (who are basically clueless when it comes to reporting on anything about Christianity) use "evangelical" to refer to anybody outside of the "mainstream protestant" or Roman churches. 

      Dr. Falwell was, of course, a strong proponent of evangelism, but from a fundamentalist point of view, an evangelical is at least in agreement with the National Association of Evangelicals, who are regarded as somewhat weak on issues such as inerrancy and inspiration.  While Dr. Falwell has always been a Baptist, he did not affiliate with the SBC until about 10 years ago.

      Dr. Falwell will be sorely missed, but Thomas Road Baptist Church, Liberty University, and his other ministries will continue. 

[Unknown Pundit]

The world cannot live like Christ, until they know him. If all your doing is telling them to “stop it” and “behave” you are doing them the biggest disservice possible.

Very well said. It's a shame that so many lay Christians seem unable to grasp this concept. Unsaved people will do unsaved things, to expect and demand otherwise is folly.

[attiladhun2]

You are exactly right. California’s downward slide began when the state legislature legalized almost every sexual perversion about 30 years ago. If this nation embrace’s a perverted notion of homosexual “marriage”, I will give it less than a generation to survive.

[P-Marlowe]

Do you have an update of the condition of Rev. Kennedy?

Saved by Grace.

[gulfcoast6]

I wonder who took this survey, I do not know ONE young pastors who are for same sex marriage.

[Elsie]

(younger generation ok with same sex marriage)

Oh they are NOT!

[Elsie]

Polls suggest that evangelicals under 30 are just as staunchly opposed to abortion, and almost as concerned about "moral standards" in general, as their elders.

NIV Luke 18:7-8
7. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?
8. I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

[Elsie]

There is no compromise, and God never asked for Page’s opinion nor that of any teenager who believes homosexuals are harmless. It’s in the Book.

 

Ya think?? 

Genesis 13:13  Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

Genesis 13:13  Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

[evangmlw]

As a SBC ordained minister and pastor, I am deeply concerned with what has been said here. My Bible indicates that God is against sin (all sin). The Scriptures are quite clear on this subject. God is against murder, lying, stealing, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, adultery, pedophilia, envy, lust, hatred, racisim, slavery, anger, etc. This SBC preacher will continue to preach that God is against sin, man needs to repent, and Jesus Christ is man’s only hope. I also believe God has been preparing many conservative preachers to confront this last day onslaught of evil and liberal thinking prevalent in the church and society today. We will rise to the challenge in God’s time!

[Elsie]

The Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is sufficient for all, but it is only efficient for those who accept Him. Without Him, we are all doomed to Hell.

There ya go!

[evangmlw]

As with all denominations, there are many associated with movements. This does not necessarily in tune with Christ. Many have failed to put on “the mind of Christ,” opting rather for worldly minds that tickle “itching ears.”

[Elsie]

The problem is with those that call themselves believers or Evangelicals, a vast number attend church but have no relationship....this is particularly true in the southern states.

Nah... EVERYwhere!

Jesus was not surprised - HE knew there would be tares in with the wheat.

[Elsie]

Or there is a problem with biblical ignorance. Ignorance seems to be a big problem of the American people these days.

 

 

NIV Hosea 4:5-6
 5.  You stumble day and night, and the prophets stumble with you. So I will destroy your mother--
 6.  my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

 

 

NIV 2 Chronicles 7:13-15
 13.  "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people,
 14.  if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
 15.  Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place.

[Elsie]

...the framework is being set up for the anti-christ, and these are just signs we all need to be ready and prepared for Christ's triumphant return.

 

 

Actually....

 

THESE are the Scriptures that mention Anti-Christ:

NIV 1 John 2:18-29
 18.  Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
 19.  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
 20.  But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
 21.  I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
 22.  Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.
 23.  No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
 24.  See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
 25.  And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
 26.  I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
 27.  As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
 28.  And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
 29.  If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

 

NIV 1 John 4:1-3
 1.  Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
 2.  This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
 3.  but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

 

NIV 2 John 1:7
   Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.