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Evolution Opponent Is in Line for Schools Post
The New York Times ^ | May 19, 2007 | CORNELIA DEAN

Posted on 05/23/2007 8:19:05 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

The National Association of State Boards of Education will elect officers in July, and for one office, president-elect, there is only one candidate: a member of the Kansas school board who supported its efforts against the teaching of evolution.

Scientists who have been active in the nation’s evolution debate say they want to thwart his candidacy, but it is not clear that they can.

The candidate is Kenneth R. Willard, a Kansas Republican who voted with the conservative majority in 2005 when the school board changed the state’s science standards to allow inclusion of intelligent design, an ideological cousin of creationism. Voters later replaced that majority, but Mr. Willard, an insurance executive from Hutchinson, retained his seat. If he becomes president-elect of the national group, he will take office in January 2009.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; evolution; fsmdidit; schoolboard; scienceeducation
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To: cornelis
Oh, what a lovely idea! A small toast!

Thank you oh so much for your good wishes on my BD, cornelis!

41 posted on 05/24/2007 4:21:06 PM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

[For example?]

For example- your library, or more conveniently, the internet. Lemme know when you’ve explored the science.


42 posted on 05/24/2007 4:21:59 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: betty boop
There are several excellent cookie recipes in the bug zapper thread. Unfortunately, that thing was 18,300 posts, last time I looked. There are much quicker ways to find recipes :-) Happy Birthday! When you're done with the birthday, kindly send it to my granddaughter, who is scheduled to have one tomorrow.
43 posted on 05/24/2007 4:40:02 PM PDT by T'wit (Confidence in science rests on belief in God's order and will not long survive loss of belief.)
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To: CottShop
And how’sa your rebuttles to the SCIENCE I linked to going? Too busy making gneralized silly accusations about ID to take the time to eductate yourself on the issue?

What science link? I didn't see any Science in there.

But here's my rebuttal

1)Again, "I can't/won't see how xxxx evolved therefore it must be Jesus" is not a scientific arguement

2)Snowflakes

3)Regardless of the perceived moral implications (whether real or not) of the Theory of Evolution, that doesn't make it false anymore than the fact people have been pushed out of windows invalidates the Theory of Gravity

There apply one of the above to 99% of your links and there's your debunking

44 posted on 05/24/2007 5:04:47 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: betty boop; Coyoteman
"Please stop bashing the strawman and talk to me...."

But if he did that, it might require removing the artificial walls of his personally created world, and focusing his eyes on the real world; seeing a world where missing eyes, fingers, or feet grow back as they are commanded to by the human voice, under the power granted to us by our creator before he left the earth to sit by the right hand of the Father. At that point, the uncertainty evident in our understanding of biology becomes greater than our understanding.

Do you think he can withstand that? Perhaps you should allow him to remain where he's safe.

And Happy Birthday BB!!

45 posted on 05/24/2007 5:04:59 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: CottShop
For example- your library, or more conveniently, the internet. Lemme know when you’ve explored the science.,p> Well let's start with the two websites you posted earlier. I looked at them and, as I expected, they are nothing but an attempt to discount evolution. It's that way with all the ID stuff I've seen. You seem to believe that by casting doubts on evolution then ID automatically has to be correct, as if this were some binary question with only two possible results. Well suppose for the sake of arguement that evolution IS wrong. What evidence do you have that shows ID is the correct alternative? What are IDs theories and what evidence is there to support them? Let's start with the big one, the numero uno. Evidence of identity of the intelligent designer. Let's see what you've got.
46 posted on 05/24/2007 5:17:19 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Well let's start with the two websites you posted earlier. I looked at them and, as I expected, they are nothing but an attempt to discount evolution.

You sound so angry.

47 posted on 05/24/2007 5:54:26 PM PDT by bjs1779
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To: Coyoteman; editor-surveyor; CottShop; betty boop
You write, “This is a scientific matter, not a political one; or ought so to be regarded.” To this I respond, “This is a scientific matter, not a ***religious*** one; or ought so to be regarded.”

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Cyoteman,

Any subject that addresses the topics of the origin of man has profound **religious** consequences for all the children in the school. The origin of man brings into question the great metaphysical questions of:

1) Where did we come from?
2) Why are we here?
3) Where do we go when we die?

Is is any wonder that **you** get touchy about evolution, or that those supporting ID or creationism have strong opinions about how this topic is introduced to their children?

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that any government school can approach the topic of the origins of life without establishing the religious worldview of some, and crushing those of others. Government is forbidden by our First Amendment to do that! But,,in the Orwellian nether world of government schools human rights are suspended.

Solution: Begin the process of privatizing K-12 education. What is needed is complete separation of SCHOOL and state!

You can then have your religiously **non-neutral** madrassess, and the IDers and creationists can have theirs.

The government will then not be threatening parents and children with imprisonment and foster care, if they refuse to attend the government indoctrination camps. Citizens will not be under threat of sheriff’s sale of home and businesses (or imprisonment) if they refuse to support a government school religious agenda hostile to their metaphysical religious worldview. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)

48 posted on 05/24/2007 7:10:18 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime
Solution: Begin the process of privatizing K-12 education. What is needed is complete separation of SCHOOL and state!

You can then have your religiously **non-neutral** madrassess, and the IDers and creationists can have theirs.

The government will then not be threatening parents and children with imprisonment and foster care, if they refuse to attend the government indoctrination camps. Citizens will not be under threat of sheriff’s sale of home and businesses (or imprisonment) if they refuse to support a government school religious agenda hostile to their metaphysical religious worldview. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.)

Can you say Balkans, boys and girls? I knew you could!

49 posted on 05/24/2007 7:14:04 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Can you say Balkans, boys and girls? I knew you could!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can you spell bogeyman?

I was educated in Catholic schools. Do you see anything resembling North Ireland here in the U.S.?


50 posted on 05/24/2007 7:44:54 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Coyoteman
I just skimmed the thread; is it Internet Night at the Outpatient Clinic?
51 posted on 05/24/2007 7:51:39 PM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his tenth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: wintertime
I was educated in Catholic schools.

So was I.


Do you see anything resembling North Ireland here in the U.S.?

If you get your wish, you will see far worse than Northern Ireland.

Study some current events, world history, and geography. Start with "balkanization."

52 posted on 05/24/2007 8:03:40 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: wintertime
What you are advocating is government mind control.

I have more faith in the good sense of the American people. ( See my tag line.) I am sorry that you have so little confidence in our nation’s people and have such a pessimistic worldview.

53 posted on 05/24/2007 8:09:14 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Coyoteman
What you are advocating is government mind control.

I have more faith in the good sense of the American people. ( See my tag line.) I am sorry that you have so little confidence in our nation’s people and have such a pessimistic worldview.

54 posted on 05/24/2007 8:10:02 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

slowly but surely we are winning.


55 posted on 05/24/2007 8:12:34 PM PDT by balch3
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To: Coyoteman
To answer your point:

http://www.educational-freedom.org/vouchers.html

Won’t a lot of weird groups - witches, KKK, etc., and members of non-Christian religions, start schools that will ***Balkanize*** our country?

First of all, if you want others to respect your religion and values, you must respect theirs. That’s what this country is all about, not producing a cookie cutter mentality. Historically, civil unrest has arisen when one group tried to impose its religion and values on another. When all are free to pursue their lives as they think best, the threat of division and conflict diminishes.
Secondly, most people want very much to “fit in” to the society around them. Few parents would send their children to a school that would deter them from leading productive lives as American citizens. This argument of Balkanization is a red herring to cover up the real issues and to frighten people from changing the status quo that is already undermining our American society.

56 posted on 05/24/2007 8:16:01 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime
This argument of Balkanization is a red herring to cover up the real issues and to frighten people from changing the status quo that is already undermining our American society.

I disagree. While I agree that the liberal establishment is undermining traditional values, I think your solution is national suicide.

Look at Iraq. There are Sunni and Shiite (or however it is spelled) districts in the cities. And Kurds have their own territory. This is what you are advocating. Each particular group would gather into its own enclave, with its own madrasahs, and it would be downhill from there.

The idea of the "melting pot" is on its last legs. You are going to push it over the edge.

But be careful; your enclave might not be as warlike, as populous, or as well-defended as some of the others.

57 posted on 05/24/2007 8:30:43 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

anti macro-evolution is not anti-science. Are you a total idiot?


58 posted on 05/24/2007 8:44:30 PM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: caffe
anti macro-evolution is not anti-science. Are you a total idiot?

Yes, but that's Dr. Idiot to you, son.

Half my six years in grad school were spent studying evolution and closely related subjects.

I don't need you to lecture me on what macro-evolution and science are, nor what anti-macro-evolution and anti-science are.

Thanks anyway.

59 posted on 05/24/2007 8:50:12 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Dr. Idiot,

You spent six years in grad school? Did you take 16 yrs to graduate from college?

FYI, if you think my short comment was a lecture, no wonder it takes you so long to to get an education.

Again, not buying into all the fake science and lies of macro-evolutionary THEORY does not make one anti-science.

Comprez?


60 posted on 05/24/2007 8:56:30 PM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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