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Evolution Opponent Is in Line for Schools Post
The New York Times ^ | May 19, 2007 | CORNELIA DEAN

Posted on 05/23/2007 8:19:05 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger

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To: Coyoteman
I just skimmed the thread; is it Internet Night at the Outpatient Clinic?
51 posted on 05/24/2007 7:51:39 PM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his tenth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: wintertime
I was educated in Catholic schools.

So was I.


Do you see anything resembling North Ireland here in the U.S.?

If you get your wish, you will see far worse than Northern Ireland.

Study some current events, world history, and geography. Start with "balkanization."

52 posted on 05/24/2007 8:03:40 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: wintertime
What you are advocating is government mind control.

I have more faith in the good sense of the American people. ( See my tag line.) I am sorry that you have so little confidence in our nation’s people and have such a pessimistic worldview.

53 posted on 05/24/2007 8:09:14 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Coyoteman
What you are advocating is government mind control.

I have more faith in the good sense of the American people. ( See my tag line.) I am sorry that you have so little confidence in our nation’s people and have such a pessimistic worldview.

54 posted on 05/24/2007 8:10:02 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

slowly but surely we are winning.


55 posted on 05/24/2007 8:12:34 PM PDT by balch3
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To: Coyoteman
To answer your point:

http://www.educational-freedom.org/vouchers.html

Won’t a lot of weird groups - witches, KKK, etc., and members of non-Christian religions, start schools that will ***Balkanize*** our country?

First of all, if you want others to respect your religion and values, you must respect theirs. That’s what this country is all about, not producing a cookie cutter mentality. Historically, civil unrest has arisen when one group tried to impose its religion and values on another. When all are free to pursue their lives as they think best, the threat of division and conflict diminishes.
Secondly, most people want very much to “fit in” to the society around them. Few parents would send their children to a school that would deter them from leading productive lives as American citizens. This argument of Balkanization is a red herring to cover up the real issues and to frighten people from changing the status quo that is already undermining our American society.

56 posted on 05/24/2007 8:16:01 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime
This argument of Balkanization is a red herring to cover up the real issues and to frighten people from changing the status quo that is already undermining our American society.

I disagree. While I agree that the liberal establishment is undermining traditional values, I think your solution is national suicide.

Look at Iraq. There are Sunni and Shiite (or however it is spelled) districts in the cities. And Kurds have their own territory. This is what you are advocating. Each particular group would gather into its own enclave, with its own madrasahs, and it would be downhill from there.

The idea of the "melting pot" is on its last legs. You are going to push it over the edge.

But be careful; your enclave might not be as warlike, as populous, or as well-defended as some of the others.

57 posted on 05/24/2007 8:30:43 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

anti macro-evolution is not anti-science. Are you a total idiot?


58 posted on 05/24/2007 8:44:30 PM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: caffe
anti macro-evolution is not anti-science. Are you a total idiot?

Yes, but that's Dr. Idiot to you, son.

Half my six years in grad school were spent studying evolution and closely related subjects.

I don't need you to lecture me on what macro-evolution and science are, nor what anti-macro-evolution and anti-science are.

Thanks anyway.

59 posted on 05/24/2007 8:50:12 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Dr. Idiot,

You spent six years in grad school? Did you take 16 yrs to graduate from college?

FYI, if you think my short comment was a lecture, no wonder it takes you so long to to get an education.

Again, not buying into all the fake science and lies of macro-evolutionary THEORY does not make one anti-science.

Comprez?


60 posted on 05/24/2007 8:56:30 PM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: betty boop

WELLLL!

Happy Birthday to you!
Nice you’re not in a zoo.

NICER still that you are NOT
within an alligator in a zoo.

Anywhooooooo

God bless youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!


61 posted on 05/24/2007 9:00:56 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: caffe
Again, not buying into all the fake science and lies of macro-evolutionary THEORY does not make one anti-science.

Comprez?

A little French lingo there?

Doesn't impress me. Try bringing some evidence to the debate.

Good night.

62 posted on 05/24/2007 9:08:06 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: betty boop; marron; cornelis; hosepipe; MHGinTN
Hi Birthday Girl!

I'm sooo glad you are enjoying the book. And thank you for the wonderful excerpt! He does have a way with words.

To put it another way, there is a vast chasm between theory and what is experimentally possible. The experiments will always necessarily be inexact; what we draw from them can only be, at best, approximate, indeterminate, “uncertain.”

Truly said. Even the scientists who scribble "here there be dragons" on the edges of the map for their investigations cannot avoid the uncertainty within the map itself. As we are wont to mention: one cannot say something is random in the system when he doesn't know what the system "is."

Israel can sleep on a stormy night:

Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:37


63 posted on 05/24/2007 9:18:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

You have such a way with words ... and quotes!


64 posted on 05/24/2007 9:52:13 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger
"We don't do quagmires." - Donald Rumsfeld

"We don't do the supernatural." - the natural science community

"We insist you do the supernatural." - the Biblical literalist community to the natural science community

Good book on the Kansas and Pennsylvania cases just out, called Monkey Girl, by Edward Humes. Another recent book out on the Pennsylvania case is called Forty Days and Forty Nights, I don't recall the author. Both worth reading.
65 posted on 05/24/2007 9:59:18 PM PDT by omnivore
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To: MHGinTN

Thank you so much for your encouragements!


66 posted on 05/24/2007 10:11:16 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Non-Sequitur; qam1; caffe

[Well suppose for the sake of arguement that evolution IS wrong. What evidence do you have that shows ID is the correct alternative?]

What other alternative is there? Seriously? Either everythign happened at random and life came from non life naturally, which is biologically impossible, or life came from nothing and had a supernatural designer.

The only other half-way credible possibility scientifically speaking is that life was begun By God, and allowed to evolve from very basic origins- but again you run into severe insurmountable biological impossibilities. One would htink, that if science were truly objective, and truly looking for the correct answer, they wouldn’t shy away from, and indeed suppress information that attempted to explore ALL three possibilities- instead, what we see is a religious and dogmatic suppression, and an extreme bias that evidently can’t take any coutner evidences.

[as I expected, they are nothing but an attempt to discount evolution. It’s that way with all the ID stuff I’ve seen.]

Well I be less than impressed if that wasn’t there intention- My gosh, of course opposing science evidences will cast doubts- that’s the intention after all.

[You seem to believe that by casting doubts on evolution then ID automatically has to be correct,]

I do? Where did I ever say that? That is simply incorrect of you to say. Look- if a hypothesis has serious biological problems- I want to know- if somethign is impossible, I want to know- and if science were truly objective, instead of highly subjective, and if they were seeking truth instead of attempting to patch together anectotal evidences that slightly make a very weak case for evolution, then they would not be so vehemently opposed.

[Evidence of identity of the intelligent designer. Let’s see what you’ve got.]

Easy- 1: Design seen on every level of life- the fingerprint of a designer 2: Irreducible complexity 3: Specific complexity, and, for the big one, ID isn’t crippled by biological impossibility as is descent from common ancestor. Design is it’s own truth- every organism shows a design that highly suggests a designer- Now, if your side can prove nature is a credible designer, capable of assembling highly complex systems from nothing but a single cell, then more power to ya, but so far the evidence is severely underwhelming.

qam1: No science- lol - K thanks for making clear your arguing tactics early on- saves me a LOT of fruitless counter-arguing.

caffe: I would caution you against bringing any evidence that might show problems with macro-evolution to present to Coyote who’s fingers are firmly inserted in ears and who will repeatedly chant the mantra that ID is apologetics and nothign else, just as Qaml does. It’s a mind-numbing excersize in futility presenting any evidences to folks who are convinced macro-evolution can happen if just ‘given enough time’


67 posted on 05/24/2007 10:17:59 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: Coyoteman
The idea of the “melting pot” is on its last legs. You are going to push it over the edge.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The government schools are pushing themselves off the cliff. They don’t need any help from me.

Homeschooling is continuing its rapid growth. When charters open or vouchers offered, the waiting lists for these charter schools and vouchers are very long. Every child attending a private school, homeschool, or charter has parents, relatives, friends, and neighbors who vote. All it takes is for enough of these voters to elect representatives who will pull the money plug on the government schools.

I predict that government schools will collapse from the weight of their own incompetence.

68 posted on 05/24/2007 10:44:50 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: Coyoteman
Half my six years in grad school were spent studying evolution and closely related subjects.

Six?

69 posted on 05/25/2007 1:00:44 AM PDT by Hacksaw
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To: T'wit
Happy brithday to your daughter, T'wit!

Thank you for your birthday wishes!

70 posted on 05/25/2007 5:57:29 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Perhaps.

Thank you so much for your kind birthday wishes!

71 posted on 05/25/2007 5:58:43 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: Quix

LOL Quix, thank you for your birthday wishes!


72 posted on 05/25/2007 6:01:02 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: CottShop
What other alternative is there? Seriously? Either everythign happened at random and life came from non life naturally, which is biologically impossible, or life came from nothing and had a supernatural designer.

Well there's always the theological teachings of the Flying Spagetti Monster or the creation tales of any number of religions. If you say that evolution is false and creation by someone or something is the only logical alternative then what do you have to show that your version is the correct one? Surely you have something to support you other than to say "you're wrong and I'm right"?

73 posted on 05/25/2007 6:06:15 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: betty boop

Gosh, you scared me. For a minute I thought I was Alamo-Girl.


74 posted on 05/25/2007 6:28:18 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: caffe
You spent six years in grad school? Did you take 16 yrs to graduate from college?

I can tell you've never been to grad school.

75 posted on 05/25/2007 6:40:32 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: CottShop
believe a rat sized animal’s jaw, when compared to a hippos sized animal’s jaw suggests that the ‘ear bones were evolving’

You are patently ignorant of that whereof you speak.

76 posted on 05/25/2007 6:42:57 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: wintertime; Coyoteman; Alamo-Girl; editor-surveyor; hosepipe
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that any government school can approach the topic of the origins of life without establishing the religious worldview of some, and crushing those of others. Government is forbidden by our First Amendment to do that!

This bears repeating wintertime! Though your admonition all too often falls on deaf ears these days.

The public schools these days seem to be in the business of socialization, not education. I'd love to see more private alternatives. Coyoteman thinks this would lead to Balkanization. But I don't see that as a necessary consequence.

It's ironic that the public schools go whoopy over promoting "diversity," when they themselves appear to reject it when it comes to their own perceived self-interest.

Thanks so much for writing wintertime!

77 posted on 05/25/2007 7:29:09 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: betty boop
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that any government school can approach the topic of the origins of life without establishing the religious worldview of some, and crushing those of others. Government is forbidden by our First Amendment to do that!

Where does evolution describe the origin of life?

78 posted on 05/25/2007 7:36:06 AM PDT by js1138 (The absolute seriousness of someone who is terminally deluded.)
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To: betty boop

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

I don’t see “government must not mention topics in disagreement with student’s religious biases” here.

Establishment of religion means favoring one religion over others or promoting one to official religion status.


79 posted on 05/25/2007 7:44:45 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: Coyoteman
Look at Iraq. There are Sunni and Shiite (or however it is spelled) districts in the cities. And Kurds have their own territory.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I will add North Ireland.

Everyone of your examples is rooted in territorial disputes that have their origin in ancient warlord feudal societies.

These examples do not apply to the United States.

What we have now are bitter political disputes over government school curriculum and policies. Why is it so bitter? The reason: Because there can only be ONE winner. The prize is the hearts, minds, and religious belief of our next generation of voters. The winner gets to use the threat of government guns to impose its will upon the minority.

The solution: Get government OUT of education. We need complete separation of **school** and state.

80 posted on 05/25/2007 7:48:00 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: ahayes; js1138; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
I don’t see “government must not mention topics in disagreement with student’s religious biases” here.

Establishment of religion means favoring one religion over others or promoting one to official religion status.

What I object to is censorship ahayes. I am deeply committed to the idea of academic freedom and the free exchange of knowledge in good faith from all points of view.

If it were up to me, evolution theory, ID, and creationism would all be taught in the public schools. Technically speaking, none of these are religions anyway (though folks have been know to bring religious passion to the defense of their favorite view).

In any case, the First Amendment binds only the federal government. The public schools are generally the province of the states. The states ought to be free to arrange their own affairs in such matters.

You know technically, any state that wanted to could actually establish a religion. Only the feds are barred from doing this. But I don't see this happening anytime soon.

81 posted on 05/25/2007 8:05:04 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: betty boop
If it were up to me, evolution theory, ID, and creationism would all be taught in the public schools.

Lets teach this one:


The Creation of Men and Women

When the world was finished, there were as yet no people, but the Bald Eagle was chief of the animals. He saw that the world was incomplete and decided to make some human beings. So he took some clay and modeled the figure of a man and laid him on the ground. At first he was very small but he grew rapidly until he reached normal size. But as yet he had no life; he was still asleep. Then the Bald Eagle stood and admired his work. "It is impossible," he said, "that he should be left alone; he must have a mate." So he pulled out a feather and laid it beside the sleeping man. Then he left them and went off a short distance, for he knew that a woman was being formed from the feather. But the man was still asleep and did not know what was happening. When the Bald Eagle decided that the woman was about completed, he returned, awoke the man by flapping his wings over him and flew away.

The man opened his eyes and stared at the woman. "What does this mean?" he asked. "I thought I was alone!" Then the Bald Eagle returned and said with a smile, "I see you have a mate! Have you had intercourse with her?" "No," replied he man, for he and the woman knew nothing about each other. Then the Bald Eagle called to Coyote who happened to be going by and said to him, "Do you see that woman? Try her first!" Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died. The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him. "How did it work?" said the Bald Eagle. "Pretty well, but it nearly kills a man!" replied Coyote. "Will you try it again?" said the Bald Eagle. Coyote agreed, and tried again, and this time survived. Then the Bald Eagle turned to the man and said, "She is all right now; you and she are to live together.


82 posted on 05/25/2007 8:09:48 AM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: js1138; Alamo-Girl; ahayes; hosepipe
Where does evolution describe the origin of life?

Hi js1138!!!

It doesn't. But it seems to give an account of the origin of man.

Which in a certain way amounts to the same thing, and certainly has religious implications: Either God made man, or man descended from apes and, even further back, from a "common ancestor" of unknown origin.

83 posted on 05/25/2007 8:10:34 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: Coyoteman; js1138; ahayes; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe
Lets teach this one....

Okay!!! I don't have a problem with that at all!

But then I'm a huge fan of the myth.

You do realize, of course, that humans continue to create myths even in the modern period!!! It would be beneficial for students to understand what a myth is: It is the opposite number of the scientific method, so to speak. As Eric Voegelin has put it, "the myth remains the legitimate language of the movements of the soul."

84 posted on 05/25/2007 8:17:28 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: betty boop
If it were up to me, evolution theory, ID, and creationism would all be taught in the public schools.

At least we can be grateful the sections on ID and creationism would be comparatively brief due to the lack of substantive material.

You know technically, any state that wanted to could actually establish a religion. Only the feds are barred from doing this. But I don't see this happening anytime soon.

You're right, because people are fond of not having a national religion and wouldn't stand for a state one. My state constitution prohibits establishing a state religion.

85 posted on 05/25/2007 8:20:02 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: ahayes
My state constitution prohibits establishing a state religion.

Many state constitutions closely resemble the federal. That's true of my state's: John Adams wrote it. But if your state prohibits establishment, it has simply chosen to exercise its right in that particular manner. It would legitimately have been within its rights to do the opposite, and establish, subject to the approval of the people.

You wrote:

At least we can be grateful the sections on ID and creationism would be comparatively brief due to the lack of substantive material.

Oh, there's plenty of substantive material there, in both cases. It just doesn't fit your model of methodological (metaphysical?) naturalism.
86 posted on 05/25/2007 8:36:34 AM PDT by betty boop ("Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." -- A. Einstein.)
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To: ahayes

Actually, I have . It’s not that difficult to get a college degree nor a masters. Generally, an average student can obtain a graduate degree in two years.


87 posted on 05/25/2007 9:03:27 AM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: Coyoteman

I’ve debated this many times on FR so just go back and check out all the other debates over this issue and you’ll see my name. Comprez?

I know your a tad “slow” at comprehending so I have to stick with one or two sentences and try and make sure you understand my comments.


88 posted on 05/25/2007 9:06:01 AM PDT by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: ahayes

LOLOL!


89 posted on 05/25/2007 9:18:31 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: CottShop
Design is it’s own truth- every organism shows a design that highly suggests a designer- Now, if your side can prove nature is a credible designer, capable of assembling highly complex systems from nothing but a single cell, then more power to ya, but so far the evidence is severely underwhelming.

Who designed the Designer then?

qam1: No science- lol - K thanks for making clear your arguing tactics early on- saves me a LOT of fruitless counter-arguing.

Sorry but there's isn't any scientific work in your links

I would suggest going to Pubmed.com and typing in random words and just clicking on whatever links show up just to actually see what an actual scientific study looks like.

But if you feel I missed something, I'm willing to be enlightened, point me to one of the links in your link that is actually not covered by one of the 3 things I mentioned..

And I'll add a 4th to cover 99.5%, Define "information"

90 posted on 05/25/2007 9:24:12 AM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: caffe

We’re talking about doctorates, not master’s degrees, and we’re talking about the hard sciences, not the humanities. It should be nearly impossible to get a doctorate in two years, since that doesn’t leave sufficient time to take the necessary classes and make a significant contribution to a field of research (unless you are tremendously lucky). A straight-to-doctorate program in the hard sciences typically takes a minimum of 5 years (some fields 4-4.5, most 5.5-6.5, some even longer). Some people go to a master’s in two years and then continue on to a doctorate in about another three (again, five years minimum), but if you leave that institution with a master’s and try to start at another one for the doctorate you lose the research progress you’ve made and the clock starts over.

You should do some fact checking before you start insulting people.


91 posted on 05/25/2007 9:29:04 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: Alamo-Girl

I bet you’d be scared if you thought you were me! :-o


92 posted on 05/25/2007 9:32:28 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: betty boop; wintertime; Coyoteman; editor-surveyor; hosepipe
Thank you so much for your excellent essay-post!

The public schools these days seem to be in the business of socialization, not education.

IMHO, the publicly funded school system is in jeopardy because of the NEA alliance with gay/lesbian activism. Reports keep coming in from around the country of teachers telling their students - even elementary students - "now don't tell your parents" before they proceed to speak graphically of homosexuality.

Evidentally these gay/lesbian "teachers" wish to encourage gay/lesbian kids to come out of the closet, thinking of course that the parents would discourage such a thing.

The "don't tell your parents" is so great a breach of trust that I cannot imagine any responsible parent upon learning of such a thing, keeping their child in that school.

In the long run, I strongly suspect this behavior - more than fostering children to embrace socialist ideology or metaphysical naturalism - will cause a flight of the highest potential students, the ones with strong parental support, to parochial schools, private schools or homeschooling - thus once again abandoning the kids whose parents just don't care to further degrade both themselves and the public school system. Especially in the South.

My two cents...

93 posted on 05/25/2007 9:36:08 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: ahayes
LOLOL! Swapping bodies always makes for a good comedy (or sci-fi.)
94 posted on 05/25/2007 9:40:47 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; ahayes; js1138; hosepipe; Coyoteman
Thank you so much for pinging me to this wonderful sidebar!

You know technically, any state that wanted to could actually establish a religion. Only the feds are barred from doing this. But I don't see this happening anytime soon.

Very true but, IMHO, most people do not realize it.

I would have no reservations about Intelligent Design or Creationism or Creation Myths of various stripes being taught in public schools.

I have often suggested a compromise though, that publicly funded K-12s offer a "colloquium" elective where the kids pick the subjects, research them and present them trying to persuade other members of the colloquium. It would not be a debate class and the teacher would not pick the subjects or grade the kids on anything other than their efforts in research and persuasion.

The kids might pick Intelligent Design, Creationism, Equal Rights for Insects, Fashion, etc. - whatever interests them.

95 posted on 05/25/2007 9:48:45 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Coyoteman

“To this I respond, “This is a scientific matter, not a religious one; or ought so to be regarded.””

And when scientists teach our children that belief it God is a foolish sham, then they’re inviting religion into it.


96 posted on 05/25/2007 9:55:23 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: js1138; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
[.. Where does evolution describe the origin of life? ..]

Easy question.. if "we" evolved from apes what did apes evolve from on and on like that.. on back to our "father" the muddy pool of chemicals.. No proof.. but a buttload of oportunity for a religion.. The Religion of Evolution..

On the other hand, I used to be a primate but evolved and was born again into another creature.. so then evolution IS REAL.. God made primates to evolve into spiritual beings..

Pity, some never make it out of the primate stage..
Poor bastards..

97 posted on 05/25/2007 10:01:22 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: ahayes

oh really Ahayes? That’s funny- because it’s EXACTLY as I stated if you look at the illustrations that we are ALL taught in school- the only thing is- you wouldn’t know this to be fact UNLESS you investigated it further on your own. They MISLEAD us all by drawing the diagrams of the jaws the same size insinuating that the animals on the list were all very similiar when in fact they were anything but- it was deceitful and dishonest!!!


98 posted on 05/25/2007 10:14:47 AM PDT by CottShop
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To: CottShop

What source did you go to in your own investigations?


99 posted on 05/25/2007 10:22:56 AM PDT by ahayes ("Impenetrability! That's what I say!")
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To: qam1

“Who designed the Designer then?”

The Designer had no beginning. He always was - infinite, eternal, and unchangeable.

He is God.


100 posted on 05/25/2007 10:26:18 AM PDT by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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