Posted on 05/24/2007 6:03:30 AM PDT by Rebeleye
...he was stunned to see two large Confederate flags flying from trucks...emblazoned with the words "The South Shall Rise Again." I'm stunned, too, that people still think it is cool to fly this flag. Our society should bury these flags -- not flaunt them...because the Confederate flag symbolizes racial tyranny to so many... ...This flag doesn't belong on city streets, in videos or in the middle of civil discussion. It belongs in our past -- in museums and in history books -- along with the ideas it represents.
(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...
What would have happened to aggregate demand for cotton if all the textile mills in the US had closed?
I'd argue that the 5th A. prohibition against depriving a person "of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" was violated by slavery. Clearly, a person born into slavery, simply due to his paternity, is a deprivation of any due process for a crime. But, the hypocrisy of chattel, generational slaves being both people and property didn't seem to impinge on the Antebellum American mind.
Well this life that I've lead has took me everywhere
There ain't no place I ain't never gone
But its kind of like the saying that you heard so many times
Well there just ain't no place like home
Did you ever see a she-gator protect her young
Or a fish in a river swimming free
Did you ever see the beauty of the hills of Carolina
Or the sweetness of the grass in Tennessee
And Lord I can't make any changes
All I can do is write em in a song
I can see the concrete slowly creepin'
Lord take me and mine before that comes
Do you like to see a mountain stream a-flowin'
Do you like to see a youngun with his dog
Did you ever stop to think about, well, the air you're breathin'
Well you better listen to my song
And Lord I can't make any changes
All I can do is write em in a song
I can see the concrete slowly creepin'
Lord take me and mine before that comes
I'm not tryin' to put down no big cities
But the things they write about us is a bore
Well you can take a boy out of ol' Dixieland
But you'll never take ol' Dixie from a boy
And Lord I can't make any changes
All I can do is write em in a song
I can see the concrete slowly creepin'
Lord take me and mine before that comes
Cause I can see the concrete slowly creepin'
Lord take me and mine before that comes
The Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union might be of some help.
Never mind some of the things I’ve seen crop up on the “preview” bar!
Yet another essay which reveals that “States Rights” was simply code for “Expansion of Slavery”.
Hey Ney. Get over it.
To a great number of Americans the Confederate symbols are heritage not hate. In fact they weren’t associated with racial hatred until the 1960s when the symbology was hijacked by hate groups like the KKK.
My family were confederates from Arkansas. We never owned a slave ever. Didn’t believe in it. But we did give 13 members of the family to the cause.
You know how many times slaves, slavery, or slave-holding is mentioned in that document? 18. You know how many times tariffs, duties, or taxes are mentioned? 1.
I doubt it will help, although I appreciate the link.
Its been said many men are more firmly wed to their own ideas than to their spouse.
I’m seeing that in ‘real time’ on this thread.
Those who will not back victory in Iraq, or see deposing the Hussein regime as an unjustified act, should go back to their cave and email Mr. Bin Laden to tell him we ain't buyin' it.
Copperheads and Democtrats today have alot in common. So I have serious questions about whether that young soldier said he fought "cause you're downn here." It reeks of Copperhead propaganda to me.
What is true then is true now. To say that doing what is necessary will aid the enemy's recruitment is nothing more than providing aid and comfort to the enemy.
If thats what you believe, you’ll see it no matter what is posted to you, so the question becomes why have you asked for it multiple times, knowing you’ll never be convinced otherwise?
No problem. Somebody is bound to find it educational. :)
I already cited both the Republican Tariff plank of 1860, and the Democrat(ick) lack of any mention of tariffs in their platforms. How is this "strong pro-tariff"?: "12. That, while providing revenue for the support of the General Government by duties upon imports, sound policy requires such an adjustment of these imposts as to encourage the development of the industrial interests of the whole country; and we commend that policy of national exchanges which secures to the working men liberal wages, to agriculture remunerating prices, to mechanics and manufacturers an adequate reward for their skill, labor and enterprise, and to the nation commercial prosperity and independence."
Whole Republican Platform of 1860 here. Taken along with the two Dem platforms, it becomes quite clear what the burning issues of the election really were, and why the slaveholding elite triggered the secessions upon Lincoln's election. It wasn't tariffs that had them panicking.
Indeed, just not the two who learned everything they know from the public school system concerning the CW.
I appreciated it.
Have a good evening, my absence will be viewed as ‘running away’ as opposed to digging a french drain in the yard.....(chuckle)
In 1860 the Democratic Party was hopelessly split, between North and South, much like the Democratic Party in the 1960’s. The party platform may have reflected this split, unable to reconcile competing sectional interests.
the Confederacy never ‘died’ ...heck we are just taking a break ;^)
Platforms. Plural. Both the Breckenridge and Douglas factions ran on their own platform so reconcilliation wasn't a factor.
I'll gladly change my mind, given compelling evidence and a lucid argument. A cut and paste of an essay, with no input from the poster won't generally cut it.
Please point out where I stated it was ‘enough to cause secession’.
Post #239.
Non Seq: ‘Had the South done that [freed the slaves] what would they have had to secede over in the first place?’
Badeye: "States Rights, primarily."
Yep, the north has integrated so very well. Boston, Chicago, Philly, are all bastions of integration. No segregated areas at all in the northern cities and racial harmony truly prevails. Get off your high horse.
did you see anything like that posted by me you dip....?
Great video - thanks!
Take your time. It's waited 140 years to resolve, so I doubt another day will change things. Thanks for the civil discourse so far.
Only if you think the entire war was fought in Northern Virginia. In the Western theater from Kentucky to New Orleans, the Confederates were second to none in fielding incompetent commanders.
The big difference is that Lincoln canned the incompetents while Jeff Davis tended to just shuffle them around.
Lynryd Skynryd.
"States Rights, which prior to 1860 had been as important a part of northern beliefs as southern, were overturned."
~ Dean Sprague, Freedom Under Lincoln, p. 300
It gives me a warm feeling all over knowing my great grandpappy's wagons accompanied Sherman's boys on their march to the sea, but I doubt it was as warm of a feeling as the Confederate slave owners had when the Yankees burned down their plantations. :)
Damn, I knew I should’ve stopped by the Dixie Outfitters store in Lynchburg, VA on my way back down to North Carolina this afternoon!
}:-)4
After the Dred Scott decision, the states pretty much lost control over any decision over slavery inside their borders. Scott said among other things,
1. The Northwest Ordnance was unconstitutional (complete historical nonsense)
2. that individual state's personal liberty laws were trumped by the Constitution's provision requiring return of runaways (probably constitutionally correct, but something you think "States Rights" fundamentalists would have a problem with.)
3. That blacks (free or slave) were not people as defined in the Constitution and had no rights in any court in the land (Federal or State).
The "intent" in Scott was to protect slavery in any federal territory. But reading Scott, there is nothing that would have prevented a slave owner from taking his slaves into a free state and setting up shop there.
As Lincoln said in the House Divided speech, we were destined to become all one thing, or all to other.
I think "Confederate riffraff" is a good term for the people who would so welcome home a patriotic American soldier:
Uriah York was the son of John York of North Carolina. Uriah settled in the Pall Mall area of Fentress County, Tennessee. Uriah fought with Winfield Scott in the Mexican War at the Battle of Chapultepec. In 1863 he went north to Kentucky and joined Union forces there. He returned home after contracting the measles. Confederate forces in the area sought to capture him upon his return, but Uriah heard of their coming and hid himself and horses in a canebrake. Uriah evaded his pursuers, but contracted pneumonia from the exposure and died days later. His son, William York, married Mary Brooks and gave birth to Alvin C. York, the WWI hero and greatest infantryman this country has known.
I'm glad that Alvin got a more positive reception home. We can thank the defeat of the rebellion for that.
If the triumph of Lincoln and the Union was a great day for all Americans, it was even greater for the large number of Unionists in Tennessee who were forever liberated from the tyranny of the pro-slavery power.
I have two ancestors from North Carolina who were abolitionist Quakers. They joined a Union regiment of Carolinians. After the War they migrated north to Indiana, where they were active in the Grand Army of the Republic.
And Given that the Northwest Ordinance was the creation of the Founding generation, I'd take their opinion of matters a lot more seriously than that of Roger Taney and the Democratic hotheads of secession.
You mean like the Selfridge guy who kept sinking boats, but made Admiral?
There was a lot of independent people of high ideals in the South who overcame great hardships to even reach the US Army.
In contrast to the mass of more reluctant southerners conscripted into the Confederate army, these dedicated men did not desert in large numbers when the going got tough.
Nothing in that indicates to me he was incompetent and it does not appear that Lincoln made him an Admiral or was even aware that the guy existed. He didn't reach flag rank until many years after the war.
You need to look into the demographics of all those blue areas. You are proving our point, but you don’t know enough about the South to understand it.
Most Union support in the South came from higher ground. Those areas provided most of what Republican votes there were during the era of the Solid South.
You forgot the hoe cake.
True. Slavery was based on the absolute right to property guaranteed to the People by the Constitution. Where the People went, so did their rights.
Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government, which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his own.
James Madison's Essay on Property (1792)
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Scott said among other things, 1. The Northwest Ordnance was unconstitutional (complete historical nonsense)
Was it? Really? Could you please quote the Article and section of the Constitution that gives the federal government authority over the issue of slavery?
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2. that individual state's personal liberty laws were trumped by the Constitution's provision requiring return of runaways
Also true. One cannot have the legal ability to have property returned unless one had a right to that property to begin with.
(You DO realize the sign of an educated mind is the ability to understand a concept like slavery without actually agreeing with the owning of slaves, don't you?)
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3. That blacks (free or slave) were not people as defined in the Constitution and had no rights in any court in the land (Federal or State).
Also true. The Founders created our country with a social fabric much like that of the ancient Romans. There were 'civil' persons, or citizens of the several states, denizens, or people from other counties who had come here to live (i.e. today's 'illegals') and then slaves.
Before the 14th Amendment, it was the STATES who decided whether of not a denizen deserved to become a civil citizen.
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But reading Scott, there is nothing that would have prevented a slave owner from taking his slaves into a free state and setting up shop there.
Also true for reasons already expressed in #2
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As Lincoln said in the House Divided speech, we were destined to become all one thing, or all to other.
Since the combined tax rate (consisting of federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, vehicle taxes, property taxes, etc., etc., etc.) is over 50%, I'd say we wound up with 'the other'.
Congratulations.
Yes. Someone with a better grasp of both history and the English language.
“With what pretense of fairness, is is said, can you Americans object to the secession of the Southern States when your nation was founded on secession from the British Empire?” - Cornhill Magazine, “The Dissolution of the Union,” 1861.
“And don’t call me son, I’m not your son.”
This is why I think you have trouble with American English. In this context, I was being condescending.
That’s not all they thought on the subject. Otherwise, why allow Confederate agents to operate in their country?
They didn’t formally recognize over slavery, but to say they didn’t help or sympathize to an extent is not accurate.
“a federal fort that did not belong to South Carolina “
Call it “preemptive war”, if you will.
“Blaming it all on South Carolina because the firing started there makes no more sense than blaming it all on Lincoln because he insisted on retaining ownership of federal property.”
Who owns Federal Property?
“Which flag are we talking about being “co-opted”?”
Check your attributions.
Oh my, makes me sooo hungry. I cook all that good stuff, too. I put okra in everything from soups to roasts to rice and often fry it. Don’t forget chicken & dumplins’, pork neckbones and rice, ham hocks and fresh green beans, sawmill gravy and cheese grits.
What do you think those lyrics mean? They are a “hymn” stating that the Army of the Potomac was the Army of God and was going to stomp out the South. That’s EXACTLY what it means.
“Read Lincoln’s Second Inaugural and then ask yourself what the grapes of wrath is all about.”
He doesn’t address the hymn or those who supported the idea - popular in some avenues of the North - to so punish the South that it would amount to genocide. Of course, Lincoln didn’t agree with that, but that doesn’t change the attitude in others.
“He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored”
Killing the enemy is justified, as it’s God’s punishment.
“I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps”
God's judgement has been passed on the enemy.
“As ye deal with My contempters, so with you My grace shall deal”
If you kill the enemy, you serve God and go to heaven.
“I have read the fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel”
Not exactly Christian, here, either.
Certainly, no Christian hymn. Of course, it was written by the wife of a John Brown supporter in on the Harpers Ferry Raid.
We can debate the lyrics, but do so actually reading them in their proper context of 1861 and without the childishness. Words do mean things. Just like these words.
Many songs lose their proper context. “This Land is Your Land” was written by a Communist, yet some consider it “American”.
It’s a bit difficult to start a government in a war.
Oh, and the “well, your guy did it to” is not a defense.
“War of Northern Aggression”
Commonly called the “Civil War”, although it wasn’t one.
Ok,if you want to be technical about it,yes,Brown WAS a serial killer.
Which does not make him any MORE unworthy of scorn than many of the bandits and scoundrels of that pre-War period.
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