Posted on 05/24/2007 1:51:07 PM PDT by calcowgirl
KEENE, N.H. -- Rudolph Giuliani Wednesday sounded open to letting anyone who's not a criminal or mental patient carry a concealed handgun -- even telling a woman who packs a piece in New York that it's OK with him.
(snip)
Giuliani's days as a crusading anti-gun mayor are behind him now that he's running for president, and Wednesday he staked out a simple test for concealed-carry permits, which are tightly controlled in New York. He asked two questions -- Are you a criminal, and have you ever been institutionalized? -- and to the laughter of the audience, rendered his verdict when she said no to both.
"As far as I am concerned, you can have a concealed weapon," he said. "The Constitution of the United States in the Second Amendment gives you an individual right to bear arms; that individual right is as strong as your individual right to free speech, free assembly, being safe against unreasonable searches and seizures."
Outside the event, Giuliani said his test came from a recent federal court ruling overturning a tough District of Columbia gun ban, which set what he considered "reasonable" limits on gun ownership. He said he believes that individual states should decide who can carry weapons.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...
I don't believe him.
But, if I did believe him, this is just another 180 degree flip-flop on a fundamental issue. Will he do 180 degree flip-flops on other issues, if elected?
The man is not trustworthy, IMO.
If FR is a "Conservative Forum" why are posting articles about Rudy?
Are you not simply preaching to a NO choir?
Just curious to hear why.
Thanks
Sounds like a good litmus test to me. If I could believe him, I'd be willing to give him another look. That's a big 'if' however.
Problem is, we know what his previous stance was on gun control. Now he’s taking a new stance on it. Why should we believe he has really changed his mind? What is he going to do to prove it? Is he going to denounce his lawsuits against gun stores and gun manufacturers?
I am goning to vote against him in the Primary and if he’s the ‘Pubbie candidate in the General election, I’m going to skip that line.
Good call clacowgirl.
Rudy is like so many other politicos that will sell their soul to get the elected job they wnat.
No real beliefs but if you read his past stances he is for gun control, abortion, illegal immigration,and imho he is a RINO.
As long as he flip flops on guns for 4 to 8 years, that’s ok by me.
If Giuliani wins election after espousing more conservative positions, why do you believe he wouldn’t govern the same way? Even if he’s an opportunist, that would have proven to be the more popular position by virtue of his election, so it would be logical for him to continue in that direction.
The position that if the US Constitution doesnt grant the power to regulate something, then the state retains that right to itself is true and proper. However in the case of guns, it isnt so. The 2nd ammendment doesnt just prohibit congress from regulating guns, it prohibits anyone bound by the constituion from doing so. In other words, when the states signed the constition and ratified the ammendments the agreed to live by those rules and one of them was that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The states signed up to that text just as congress did, and should be constrained by them just as congress is (or would be if they didnt ignore the constitution as a matter of course).
So it is my contention that if that amendment precludes congress from legislating about firearm controls (as Rudy has said in his campaign) then it puts the same restriction on the states.
Well it hasn't worked that way with Jorge in the White House and there's no reason to expect any different from Rudy.
I've posted articles on Hillary, too.
Should I not do that? Should we not identify and discuss the liberal enemies that we want to defeat?
Agreed!
...and imho he is a RINO.
In my opinion, he has no basis for putting "Republican" anywhere near his name.
No no - just wanted to understand - fair answer.
I have no problem with your answer - just wanted to ask.
Hillary is simple - THAT VOICE - that’s our greatest ally.
Thanks for responding - I appreciate that.
That's what they said about Arnold. Get real.
Interesting turn, with Rudy pushing a little right on a Constitutional issue and hanging left moderate on social issues. If he starts using money on television and radio commercials with similar themes, he could easily turn the less politically inclined in his direction.
He is a lying carpetbagger.
Roooody thinks the sheeple are really stupid. He could be right. He is a lying piece of crap.
as .... Mitt Romney
But hey, if Rudy says it now, we should accept him at his word, right? His past doesn't matter, only whatever position he's come up with most recently.
/sarc
I don’t recall GW Bush running in 2000 as a conservative on immigration policy. Given the alternatives, if I had a wayback machine I’d still have voted for Bush over Gore that year, and Bush over Kerry in 2004. And I would vote for Giuliani over Hillary, Obama or Pony Boy in 2008. Doing otherwise would strike me as irresponsible.
RG’s team is poll watching...want to stop the downturn...
Time for Rudy to apply for a CCW.
That’s not what they said about Arnold, actually. Republicans in California knew exactly what they’d be getting, and they’ve got it. I’d still rather have him in there than somebody like Cruz Bustamante, for all his flaws. The reality in this state is that a true conservative cannot get elected to any statewide office. If they could, McClintock would have.
You're either profoundly stupid or you're being willfully ignorant.
Well isn't that magnanimous of you, Rudy! I didn't realize that I needed your permission to enjoy my rights as spelled out in the Constitution.
Idiot.
With luck, soon being pro-2nd A will be like being pro Mom and Apple Pie for anyone aspiring to public office.
Good place to bump the thread. But I still don’t trust the man and won’t vote for him. If he becomes the republican nominee, I will write in Duncan Hunter, the republican who deserves it. Straight republican ticket down the line.
If the CAGOP would support one, instead of undercutting them at every turn, they could.
“Say buh-bye, Rudy. You’re toast.”
Once the race tightens and becomes truly serious the media is going to crucify him. At some level he must want to commit political suicide. He had a lot of strikes against him before he entered the race, now he has more.
For the record, calcowgirl, I think it’s fine that you posted this thread. No harm in reviewing his screw ups. As a matter of fact, put them all together and you’ve got a manual for how NOT to run for president.
Agreed. These kind of statements will stabilize his campaign. Money will continue to come in steadily through the end of 2007 and serious spending will occur in the first quarter 2008. The aim of the Giuliani campaign will be to take big-state delegates in February, understanding that Romney and F.Thompson will end up fighting over smaller states like NH and Iowa, splitting them and weakening their positions for the convention.
Bush also ran on a pro-gun platform, but frankly, he strikes me as anything but.
The DOJ has given some lip service to pro-gun positions and filed some amicus briefs, but when push met shove—for the AWB renewal—Bush said he’d sign the thing. Not cool, dude. Not cool.
Mitt has the team and money to compete in the big state primaries. Time will tell on FDT.
Oh Spiffy - in fact I am profoundly intelligent, and profoundly well informed.
Just wanted to understand the motivation behind the thread.
The reply was honest and easy to understand - I appreciated it.
Intelligence is lost on some - but don’t worry about it, and don’t let it bother you.
Yes, he did say all those things. Many believed him. He lied (just as Rudy is doing).
"Let me tell you what being a conservative means to me. I'm a conservative because I believe communism is evil and free enterprise is good. I'm a conservative because Milton Friedman is right and Karl Marx is wrong. I'm a conservative because I believe government serves the people, the people don't serve the government. I'm a conservative because I believe in a balanced budget, not budget deficits. I'm a conservative because I believe money that people earn is their money and not the government's money. And when you look at the drivers' license outrage, I am a conservative because I believe in the rules of the law, not political pandering."--Arnold Schwarzenegger, California GOP Convention, September 2003
Thats what happens with amnesty. Gop is down the tubes in mexifornia.Next is arizona followed by texico.More to follow.
John Romney? Mitt Edwards? All the same to me.
Conservertive Lite is conservatine not at all.
Oh Goosey - in your dreams you're intelligent. You certainly have demonstrated that intelligence around here, your affectations of intellectual superiority notwithstanding.
Just wanted to understand the motivation behind the thread.
If you were so intelligent, as you allege, you would know the motivations behind negative threads about Giuliani. I'll refer you AGAIN to the link on the main forum page, just above the "Search Site" box and just below the list of featured links and keywords. That link says, "The Giuliani Truth File - Rudy: In his own words and deeds." It links to a number of articles containing negative truths about Rudy Giuliani as part of an effort to "swiftboat" his candidacy in an effort spearheaded by the owner of this forum.
This has been explained to you multiple times, yet you're so damned intelligent that you can't seem to figure it out.
Well it has served him well.
Needed a ticket to get elected N.Y. mayor. Others had the mantle of democrat challenger for that job.
Dude, when are you going to wake up and smell the roses.
I meant to say:
You certainly have NOT demonstrated that intelligence around here, your affectations of intellectual superiority notwithstanding.
I stand above those who are beneath me.
Proudly - and without apology. (yyy)
You really need to lighten up bud - you’re gonna die of anger.
Can I ask what "NO" stands for?
She’s preaching to you, Jake the Goose!
Get over yourself.
I am very skeptical but I’d like to believe it. It would give me someone to vote for.
I just don't know my friend.
I wake up every day - the sun shines - and I enjoy every waking moment.
Life is the best - and I am surrounding by great people 24/7.
What can I tell you - I'm lucky.
She is indeed - and that was what I hoped she would say.
No problem there.
Where are all the other Rudybots?
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