Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Judge Rules Any Religious Text Can Be Used for Courtroom Oaths
AP via 9&10 News ^ | 5/24/07 | AP

Posted on 05/25/2007 4:59:38 PM PDT by melt

A North Carolina judge has ruled that any religious text can be used to swear in a witness or juror in the state's courtrooms, not just the Bible.

State law currently allows witnesses preparing to testify in court to take their oath in three ways: by laying a hand over "the Holy Scriptures," by saying "so help me God" without the use of a religious book, or by an affirmation using no religious symbols.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued on behalf of a Muslim woman who wasn't allowed to take her oath on the Quran.

(Excerpt) Read more at 209.85.165.104 ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aclu; antichristian; bible; globalwarming; islam; islamiclaw; koran; mosqueandstate; muhammadsminions; relativism; religion; ruling; satanism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-63 next last

You mean, if Al Gore were to be elected President--- he could be sworn in on his DVD "An Inconvenient Truth"?

1 posted on 05/25/2007 4:59:39 PM PDT by melt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: melt

Creeping incrementalism.


2 posted on 05/25/2007 5:01:09 PM PDT by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt
The American Civil Liberties Union sued on behalf of a Muslim woman who wasn't allowed to take her oath on the Quran.

So when questioned, can the person swearing on a Quran be asked about the verse that permits lying to non Muslims?

3 posted on 05/25/2007 5:01:51 PM PDT by airborne (Duncan Hunter is the only real choice for honest to goodness conservatives!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: airborne
So when questioned, can the person swearing on a Quran be asked about the verse that permits lying to non Muslims?

Shhh.

4 posted on 05/25/2007 5:04:10 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: airborne
lying to non Muslims?

Or the passage that states all Infidels must die if they don't convert to Islam.

5 posted on 05/25/2007 5:05:01 PM PDT by melt (Someday, they'll wish their Jihad... Jihadn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: melt
Could a Wiccan use a "book of shadows"?

What if the religion doesn't have a written text - but is (or was) an established religion? Do they plan to discriminate against followers of Apollo? Of Mars and Jupiter? Of Skadhi?

Quite a can of worms, I think.

6 posted on 05/25/2007 5:05:37 PM PDT by neutrino (Globalization is the economic treason that dare not speak its name.(173))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mtbopfuyn

I can’t believe she said that re your tagline


7 posted on 05/25/2007 5:10:56 PM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: melt

Political Correctness strikes again. Thank you Bill & Hillary for forcing this down our throats.


8 posted on 05/25/2007 5:12:19 PM PDT by skimask ("Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated"....George Bernard Shaw)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

9 posted on 05/25/2007 5:12:35 PM PDT by LFOD777 (In 2006, Washington spent $2.7 Trillion and ran a $248 billion budget deficit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: airborne

No doubt a Rat appointed judge, probably Clinton.


10 posted on 05/25/2007 5:13:18 PM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: melt

I swear on a stack of L. Ron Hubbard’s Dianetics to tell the truth the whole truth....


11 posted on 05/25/2007 5:14:10 PM PDT by keepitreal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

-PJ

12 posted on 05/25/2007 5:15:12 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: airborne

What makes you think swearing on the Bible keeps a liar from lying.


13 posted on 05/25/2007 5:16:07 PM PDT by mimaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: melt

Inherit the Wind!Shades of the “Skopes Trial”?


14 posted on 05/25/2007 5:16:59 PM PDT by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt
From the searchable Koran, here's the first 10 (of 120) references to "unbelievers":

1. [2.19] Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.

2. [2.24] But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.

3. [2.34] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.

4. [2.89] And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.

5. [2.90] Evil is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.

6. [2.98] Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.

7. [2.104] O you who believe! do not say Raina and say Unzurna and listen, and for the unbelievers there is a painful chastisement.

8. [2.109] Many of the followers of the Book wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.

9. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

10. [2.254] O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers-- they are the unjust.

15 posted on 05/25/2007 5:17:25 PM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

What about the Book of Mormon?


16 posted on 05/25/2007 5:29:09 PM PDT by f150sound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

Maybe i have a different perspective on this because I’m jewish. But this seems like a common-sense ruling. For example, would you force a jew to swear on a King James Bible?


17 posted on 05/25/2007 5:33:10 PM PDT by NYIslander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

Maybe i have a different perspective on this because I’m jewish. But this seems like a common-sense ruling. For example, would you force a jew to swear on a King James Bible?


18 posted on 05/25/2007 5:33:11 PM PDT by NYIslander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LFOD777

If the Koran is acceptable, then why not "Mein Kampf"?

19 posted on 05/25/2007 5:33:42 PM PDT by melt (Someday, they'll wish their Jihad... Jihadn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: melt

I wondered....what would happen if you said no?


20 posted on 05/25/2007 5:33:47 PM PDT by CindyDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYIslander

Better that than being forced 50 years down the road to place your hand on a copy of the Qur’an. Or worse, be subjected to Islamic justice.


21 posted on 05/25/2007 5:37:48 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: melt

Uhhhhh.....

The Satanic Bible, too?

And here I just ate.


22 posted on 05/25/2007 5:50:05 PM PDT by combat_boots (She lives! 22 weeks, 9.5 inches. Go, baby, go!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt
The Gospel of Judas"?
23 posted on 05/25/2007 5:57:19 PM PDT by caveat emptor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mimaw

The Bible doesn’t condone lying.

The Quran commands it.


24 posted on 05/25/2007 5:58:19 PM PDT by airborne (Duncan Hunter is the only real choice for honest to goodness conservatives!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: NYIslander
Good point. I am a lawyer and I profess to be a Christian and this ruling is great. As others have pointed out: Some religions allow lying in pursuit of that particular religion’s goals. That is great material for cross examination. What do you want, folks taking a forced oath on a religious document they do not think carries any weight or folks taking an oath on a text they at least profess to believe in and on which they can be cross-examined?
25 posted on 05/25/2007 5:59:54 PM PDT by Tom D. (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benj. Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Political Junkie Too

The Green Bible.

26 posted on 05/25/2007 6:05:11 PM PDT by melt (Someday, they'll wish their Jihad... Jihadn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: airborne

BUMP


27 posted on 05/25/2007 6:22:47 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: melt

Reminds me of the movie “Animal House” when the Delta pledges are sworn in by fraternity president Hoover giving them the oath while holding a Chilton manual... “I swear allegiance to the frat, with liberty and fraternity for all, amen”.


28 posted on 05/25/2007 6:27:45 PM PDT by Lawgvr1955 (You can never have too much cowbell !!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sageb1

Islam is the political system of theocratic rule establish by the ancient warlord Mohammed and his decendents.

No different than Adolph Hitler’s dream of a thousand year Reich.

Among Islam’s laws are the approval to lie to the kufir. An “oath” does not have to be obeyed if it is not an Islamic oath.


29 posted on 05/25/2007 6:29:36 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: airborne

Liars lie no matter what book they swear on.


30 posted on 05/25/2007 6:32:30 PM PDT by mimaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Tom D.

I agree with your assessment, although there are difficulties. You said, “Some religions allow lying in pursuit of that particular religion&rsquos goals. That is great material for cross examination.” Would not the fact that one is allowed to swear on any religious book give all religious equal standing (equal protection)? If someone swore on the Book of Satan, would not cross examination of that fact be off limits? I am not a lawyer, just wondering about the practical implications of this ruling, even though I am in favor of it.


31 posted on 05/25/2007 7:08:50 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: johniegrad

“Creeping incrementalism.”

Incrementalism is supposed to creep.

If we going to insist people swear on something that’s holy to them in court, it only makes sense to use something for Muslims that’s like, holy.


32 posted on 05/25/2007 7:10:01 PM PDT by gcruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Czar

I didn’t know judges could make law.


33 posted on 05/25/2007 7:11:39 PM PDT by Plains Drifter (I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NYIslander

I think the ruling is reasonable. I cannot imagine why you should be asked to swear an oath over a book that contains the New Testament any more than I would swear an oath over, say, the Book of Mormon (I’m not picking on Mormons, I am just using this as an example). If you got several people together who claimed to believe in the Bible and questioned them about what the Bible means and what books it contains, you might get different answers: A Jew, a Catholic, a Protestant and a Mormon would all have different views to a greater or lesser extent as to what is meant by “the Bible.”


34 posted on 05/25/2007 7:17:41 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: melt

What advantage would be acquired by requiring a muslim to swear an oath on a book he didn’t hold sacred?


35 posted on 05/25/2007 7:44:56 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mimaw
What makes you think swearing on the Bible keeps a liar from lying.

Right - and actually, why do people submit to swearing on the Bible anyway? Jesus taught not to swear on anything holy but to let " your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:33-37)

I have often wondered what I would do if I had to testify in court and was told to swear on the Bible.

36 posted on 05/25/2007 8:03:17 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ( "...but you can't fool all of the people all the time." LINCOLN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: airborne

Very interesting this court ruling.


37 posted on 05/25/2007 8:04:39 PM PDT by X-Ecutioner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYIslander

Maybe just the Old Testament?


38 posted on 05/25/2007 8:07:48 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: tutstar

Yep, couldn’t resist the tagline. San Antonio is, of course, a sanctuary city.


39 posted on 05/26/2007 7:55:53 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: mimaw
Liars lie no matter what book they swear on.

I don't disagree. My ex is a perfect example.

But the Quran instructs the Muslim to lie as part of it's teaching.

40 posted on 05/26/2007 8:26:52 AM PDT by airborne (Duncan Hunter is the only real choice for honest to goodness conservatives!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Plains Drifter
"I didn’t know judges could make law."

You forgot the "/sarc/" tag...

41 posted on 05/26/2007 11:50:47 AM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: melt

Imagine a Scientologist taking an oath on a copy of “Battlefield Earth”.


42 posted on 05/26/2007 11:54:09 AM PDT by reg45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

Democrats could swear on a copy of “Das Kapital”.


43 posted on 05/26/2007 11:57:04 AM PDT by reg45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYIslander; Tom D.
"Maybe i have a different perspective on this because I’m Jewish. But this seems like a common-sense ruling. For example, would you force a jew to swear on a King James Bible?"

Has your Rabbi advised on the matter? I'm not Jewish but am an alien student (Noachide Chassid) of an Orthodox Rabbi. He suggested that we simply "affirm" without swearing on any text and told us how to go about it. So I will request that in court, if need be, and won't swear by any variation of the Septuagint (idolatry to me) or by the Tanach (B"H).
44 posted on 05/26/2007 5:23:09 PM PDT by familyop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: airborne

>>The American Civil Liberties Union sued on behalf of a Muslim woman who wasn’t allowed to take her oath on the Quran.


So when questioned, can the person swearing on a Quran be asked about the verse that permits lying to non Muslims?<<

I would think the rule would be consistent - is questioning about the Bible allowed?


45 posted on 05/27/2007 5:35:53 AM PDT by gondramB (No man can be brave who thinks pain the greatest evil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Plains Drifter

>>I didn’t know judges could make law.<<

Thanks for that - first good laugh on what looks to be a long day.


46 posted on 05/27/2007 6:29:45 AM PDT by gondramB (No man can be brave who thinks pain the greatest evil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: f150sound
LDS has always used the Bible!

Are you trying to instigate something f150sound?

47 posted on 05/27/2007 6:33:41 AM PDT by restornu (True Christian Soldiers Are More Than Weekend Warriors! ~ "Mitt Romney 08")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: neutrino

>>Could a Wiccan use a “book of shadows”?

What if the religion doesn’t have a written text - but is (or was) an established religion? Do they plan to discriminate against followers of Apollo? Of Mars and Jupiter? Of Skadhi?

Quite a can of worms, I think.<<

What are the other choices - to establish the Christian Bible as the official religious book of the government?

We live in a crazy world where people are claiming that allowing people to choose to pray in public is establishing a government religion. We supress freedom of religion and claim it that freedom of religion requires this suppression.

We don’t need to make it crazier by actually establishing a government religion.


48 posted on 05/27/2007 6:33:41 AM PDT by gondramB (No man can be brave who thinks pain the greatest evil)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: melt

What would an atheist use? - Nothing?


49 posted on 05/27/2007 6:40:14 AM PDT by FMBass ("Now that I'm sober I watch a lot of news"- Garofalo from Coulter's "Treason")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melt

Just wait. Someone will insist on being sworn in on their copy of “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Repair.”


50 posted on 05/27/2007 6:43:01 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-63 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson