Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

FL lawyer says Giuliani, Romney, McCain wrong on Schiavo case
OneNewsNow ^ | 5/28/07 | Jim Brown

Posted on 05/28/2007 9:33:12 AM PDT by wagglebee

The Christian attorney who fought to keep Terry Schiavo alive says the three leading GOP presidential candidates don't understand the important disability issues involved in the widely publicized 2005 case.

Hear This Report

During a recent Republican presidential debate in California, the candidates were asked whether Congress was right to intervene in the Terry Schiavo case by attempting to prevent the state of Florida from removing the disabled woman's feeding tube. The answers varied.

Mitt Romney, former governor of Massachusetts, said he thought it "was a mistake" for Congress to get involved and the matter should have been left at the state level. Senator John McCain said Congress "probably acted too hastily." And former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani called the case a "family dispute."

David Gibbs III of the Christian Law Association says the United States gives greater due process to convicted murderers than to innocent disabled people. The former attorney for Schiavo's parents argues that Congress did the right thing when it intervened to provide her those rights.

"Many of the candidates are following the political wind, if you will, instead of showing leadership and saying, 'You know what? That was good public policy back then. We need to stand up for the disabled. We need to stand up for the senior citizens,'" Gibbs says. "We need to have that compassion for vulnerable people as opposed to taking the mindset that those people that just don't matter," he notes.

It is disingenuous, the Christian attorney contends, for candidates to claim they are pro-life but not be willing to grant due process rights to the disabled. "If you're pro-life, you have to be pro-life at every step," he says.

"Please understand: our founding fathers understood that you don't have any liberty, our Constitution doesn't matter, if you don't protect the innocent life of the citizens," Gibbs explains. "That's why they talked about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness -- your free speech, your freedom of religion, your right to own a gun or [receive] due process of law," he says. "If the government can kill you, you have no true liberty."

When Rudy Giuliani visited Florida he initially said he was in favor of assisting Terry Schiavo but later backpedaled from those comments, Gibbs points out. And in the recent GOP presidential debate, he says, only Kansas Senator Sam Brownback and Congressman Duncan Hunter of California got the issue right when they were asked about the Schiavo case.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008election; davidgibbs; duncanhunter; gibbs; giulianitruthfile; johnmccain; mittromney; moralabsolutes; prolife; terridailies; terrischiavo
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 1,741-1,742 next last
To: Semper
You are severely factually challenged. It's almost like you just asserted it was ok to kill the woman because she was an Al-Queda colaborator.

There was no state money involved in this. The parents were paying the bills and personally responsible for her.

161 posted on 05/29/2007 3:24:41 PM PDT by mbraynard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: tickles
‘IF’ Terri really was not conscious then offering her food and drink through her mouth should not have been that awful since she would not ingest enough to keep herself alive indefinitely. Why was she not given that chance?

I bet you would have loved the spectacle of choking when she couldn't swallow, eh? Would you have said, "look at how cruel the Schindlers are!"? Somehow, I doubt it.

Besides, I am not arguing against her receiving morphine..that was her parents.

162 posted on 05/29/2007 4:03:27 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: retMD
I was under the impression it had never been documented in the medical record, which means it is disputed, especially when it first surfaces years later. Which is probably also the reason Carla Iyer’s claims were dismissed as “incredible.” Am I mistaken in this? Do you have a link to the relevant record?

How many years went by before Scott and Joan Schiavo's testimony was allowed in Greers court for the purpose of killing her? You err on the side of death every time. Besides, Carla was not the only one.

163 posted on 05/29/2007 4:11:49 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
I bet you would have loved the spectacle of choking when she couldn't swallow, eh?

Actually, the Greer court conceded that she could swallow. But he concluded that she could not swallow enough. It would only "prolong her death". Nice, eh?

164 posted on 05/29/2007 4:36:13 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779
You err on the side of death every time.

I would say instead I support the side of the medical documentation as the representation of what happened. If it's documented in the record, say so, and I'll reevaluate. From my perspective, it looks like some want to ignore the medicine, and believe anything that sounds like it might support what they want to believe, despite more evidence to the contrary. The classic statement that's been around in legal trials involving medical records: "If it isn't documented, it didn't happen." I can't imagine why they wouldn't document something like that - any nurse I know, would have.

165 posted on 05/29/2007 5:45:16 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

No, it’s the only one I’ve seen, and looking at that scan tells me there’s very little cortex left. To believe that this is the scan of someone who speaks meaningful words is to allow hope to color perception.


166 posted on 05/29/2007 5:46:55 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: retMD
I can't imagine why they wouldn't document something like that - any nurse I know, would have.

In your experience, how many nurses have had to request restraining orders against the patients primary caregiver?

167 posted on 05/29/2007 5:51:18 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

What does that have to do with documenting that a patient ate?


168 posted on 05/29/2007 5:53:40 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: retMD
From my perspective, it looks like some want to ignore the medicine, and believe anything that sounds like it might support what they want to believe, despite more evidence to the contrary.

Could you give us a brief background bio on Dr. Cranford?

169 posted on 05/29/2007 5:53:59 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: retMD
What does that have to do with documenting that a patient ate?

> Don't know what you mean. Some testified that she could. Maybe more if they were not intimidated. You and Greer did not support another swallowing test. That is about as simple as I can put it.

Do you want me to post an early example of a restraining order against Michael Schiavo? Long before Carla ever saw him as a matter of fact.

170 posted on 05/29/2007 6:03:12 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779
It would only "prolong her death". Nice, eh?

Considering the court decided that she wouldn't have wanted it prolonged, then that was a good decision.

171 posted on 05/29/2007 6:22:35 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

Again, what does that have to do with a nurse documenting in the medical record that the patient ate? As far as I know, there was nothing about her eating in the medical record. If there was, why wasn’t the record brought up at any point?


172 posted on 05/29/2007 6:25:09 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

What does that have to with the autopsy report?


173 posted on 05/29/2007 6:25:59 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
Considering the court decided that she wouldn't have wanted it prolonged, then that was a good decision.

Did any Judge ever see her?

174 posted on 05/29/2007 6:34:02 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: retMD
As far as I know, there was nothing about her eating in the medical record. If there was, why wasn’t the record brought up at any point?

The skinny is that Michael didn't want them to fed her. Read the affidavits.

I see you didn't reply to the Scott an Joan Schiavo testimony by the way.

175 posted on 05/29/2007 6:56:08 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 172 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

I’m not sure I know the testimony - is it medical? Bottom line, is that you seem to be trying to change the subject from the medical, because it does not support what you want to believe.


176 posted on 05/29/2007 7:04:14 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779; retMD
Did any Judge ever see her?

I'm not aware of any judge seeing her. But it goes back to the same basic question retMD asks: "What does that have to do with anything we're discussing?"

Judges don't see every person about whom decisions must be made--they rely upon experts. And there wasn't a single neurologist who examined her and said she was not in a Persistent Vegetative State (doctors who advertise in the National Enquirer don't count).

Some of the neurologists who examined Mrs. Schiavo and diagnosed her as in a PVS, with little hope of any recovery...

Note, these are neurologists...but also, her family internist gave the same diagnosis.
177 posted on 05/29/2007 7:05:20 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: retMD; Polybius; wagglebee
Thanks, retMD. I appreciate your take that "looking at that scan tells me there’s very little cortex left."

The CT has been discussed before. The following exchange last year opened eyes. I learned from it and I think others did. I trust Polybius won't mind if I quote this comment in full. (He's a radiologist.) He made several other valuable comments in this thread that I can try to link.

>> The scan on the left is a normal brain. The scan on the right was the remant of Terri Schiavo's brain:

>> Looks to me as if there wasn't much left to recover. [earlier post]

Reply by Polybius:

As a radiologist, the first time I saw those those two CT images used to make that point, I thought to myself, "Now there's a classic example of how the media can and will manipulate information."

The CT slice selected to illustrate "the normal brain" has been taken at the axial level of the frontal horns and the third ventricle.

The CT slice selected to illustrate "Schiavo's brain" was taken at the axial level of the lateral ventricles.

The ventricles are cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) filled cavities in your brain. (In purple in the drawing below.) They are supposed to be there. On CT, CSF is black.

The lateral ventricles are the very long, curved ventricles at the top of the ventricular system. The third ventricle is the little ventricle below the lateral ventricles. The frontal horns are the anterior tips of the lateral ventricles that are seen as little pockets of CSF when you clip them with a third ventricle level CT slice.

So, if you take the CT slice at the third ventricle/ frontal horn level, guess what? There are almost no CSF collections there.

But, when you take a CT slice at the level of the lateral ventricles.....WHOAAA!!!.....Big difference! These are mildly dilated lateral ventricles in a 76 year old.

To a layman, especially if they are shown a slice at the third ventricle level as an example of "what a normal brain should look like", the CT slice selected from the lateral ventricle level makes it look as if there were a huge hole in Granny's brain.

No need to try to euthanize Granny because of those lateral ventricles. She will just hit you over the head with her purse and tell you that she is cutting you out of her will as soon as she calls her lawyer in the morning.

There is no doubt the Schiavo had hydrocephalus (and cortical atrophy too) but I have had patients with just as much hydrocephalus with shunts in place walk in and walk out of our CT room.

Schiavo may have had other issues that would have made her a lost cause but, if I showed a layman third ventricle level CT images of a "normal brain" and then showed the layman lateral ventricle level images of any of your brains, I could very easily convince that layman that a significant chunk of your brain was gone.

94 posted on 07/03/2006 9:12:36 PM PDT by Polybius

The comment was in this thread (post #94)

178 posted on 05/29/2007 7:05:55 PM PDT by T'wit (Confidence in science rests on belief in God's order and will not long survive loss of belief.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: retMD
I’m not sure I know the testimony - is it medical? Bottom line, is that you seem to be trying to change the subject from the medical, because it does not support what you want to believe.

Is Dr. Cranford medical? You didn't even answer that question. Why do you avoid things like that?

179 posted on 05/29/2007 7:10:24 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: Gondring
I'm not aware of any judge seeing her.

Thanks. Any murderer is seen by a Judge before sentence, agree?

180 posted on 05/29/2007 7:13:57 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 1,741-1,742 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson