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FL lawyer says Giuliani, Romney, McCain wrong on Schiavo case
OneNewsNow ^ | 5/28/07 | Jim Brown

Posted on 05/28/2007 9:33:12 AM PDT by wagglebee

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To: Semper; Gondring
But that doesn't count because her husband actually went on with his life and neglected to sit by her side and grieve over her condition for years on end, expecting that any minute she would regain consciousness.

You mean like when Michael showed up and asked the nurses, "when will this bitch die?"

51 posted on 05/28/2007 10:51:08 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Gondring
Wow, what a surprise to see you here on a Terri-related thread! Maybe you were here by mistake because you thought it was a right-to-kill thread. Nope, it is a thread for us conservatives who think killing innocents is wrong.

You are even getting snotty at us before anyone says hello.

Hello.

52 posted on 05/28/2007 10:54:54 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: wagglebee
You may certainly disagree, but artificially receiving food and water for several years with little hope of change, is not really living - if not unconscious, it could be a severe form of torture. You might want to decide these matters for others but I do not.

Obviously, artificial administration of food and water is not the extent of our medical technology. My point involved more than just this individual case.

53 posted on 05/28/2007 10:55:13 AM PDT by Semper
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To: Semper
You may certainly disagree, but artificially receiving food and water for several years with little hope of change, is not really living - if not unconscious, it could be a severe form of torture.

So, if she can be tortured, you acknowledge that her brain injuries probably weren't permanent?

You might want to decide these matters for others but I do not.

No, I think God alone should decide when and how we die. Denying a person food and water is little different than putting a bullet in their head.

54 posted on 05/28/2007 10:59:49 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Semper

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Terri was very happy right up to the moment when they stopped feeding her and giving her drink. You must not have read the other posts to you. Eating and drinking are not artificial, although my sandwich tasted like it.

She was conscious and aware of her surroundings.

She may have liked to decide for herself, too, actually tried to, but they killed her anyway.


55 posted on 05/28/2007 11:00:03 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: wagglebee

thanks wagglebee


56 posted on 05/28/2007 11:05:07 AM PDT by jedward (Mission '08 - Take back the House & Senate. No Negotiations...No Prisoners.)
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To: 8mmMauser
Maybe you were here by mistake because you thought it was a right-to-kill thread.

Show me ONE place where I was in favor of a "right to kill" absent the right to die. I am STRONGLY against involuntary euthanasia, etc., because I care about each individual's RIGHTS and PREFERENCES, not just look at them like some statistic for whom I know best (Life-At-All-Cost'ers).

but I suppose demonizing my support of the Constitution and people's rights is easier than addressing my points, eh?

Hello. :-)

57 posted on 05/28/2007 11:11:04 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: wagglebee
I don’t know what the newest anti-FReepers are calling themselves, nor do I really care, but WAckos seems appropriate.

WAckos? WAaaaaaaa.... What do we call the salty river or whatever it is? I heard reference to it but do not want to think of things like that on a beautiful day.

58 posted on 05/28/2007 11:14:49 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: wagglebee

And there is SO MUCH ROMNEY pimpin’ going on the supposed “Conservative/Republican Media” that I can’t tell if it PAID, or truely grass-roots supported. If anything the debate showed me Romney is only willing to touch on “surface-isses” realted to cultural/traditional/social conservaitves, BOTTOM LINE: I don’t trust him (any farther than I can throw him, and I am not saying this as a ‘hit on him), but as a fact, untill proven otherwise: I DON’T TRUST Gov. ROMNEY, and WILL NOT SUPPRT/Vote for Him!


59 posted on 05/28/2007 11:17:35 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com.)
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To: Gondring

Can’t take a joke?? Terri’s killing was very involuntary euthanasia. I was outside on the grounds when Terri was inside and she screamed in horror when she found out they were about to snuff her. Right-to-die in liberal lingo means right-to-die.


60 posted on 05/28/2007 11:18:34 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser

right-to-die = right to kill. Ooops


61 posted on 05/28/2007 11:19:26 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Semper
The closest family member decided to stop the artificial prolonging of life

Oh he stopped it alright...MS had medical therapy to Terri suspended once he got his $$ medical settlement...she possibly could have learned to swallow on her own with therapy that MS purposely withheld along with other abuses to her. With 'closest family' like this who needs enemies.

62 posted on 05/28/2007 11:19:43 AM PDT by tflabo (Take authority that's ours)
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To: 8mmMauser
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Yes, it is. With only a little knowledge, one might misquote Pope. Better skip on the Pierian spring, my FRiend, 'til you can handle a full vessel.

She was conscious and aware of her surroundings.

Like heck she was.

If so, it wasn't from within her corporeal form. And she was pretty durn unhelpful to anyone trying to demostrate that--recall that her father berated her and thumped her in the forehead in frustration that he couldn't get a response from her. Unlike the claims against Mr. Schiavo (which are not backed up by the nine separate investigations conducted by the Department of Children and Families), there's video of Mr. Schindler's abuse of Mrs. Schiavo.

63 posted on 05/28/2007 11:20:26 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Semper

But..Her PARENTS wanted to take care of her..


64 posted on 05/28/2007 11:22:09 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com.)
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To: 8mmMauser

It must have been traumatic to find that the post-mortem examination showed that your preconceived notions of consciousness were wrong.


65 posted on 05/28/2007 11:22:59 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: wagglebee; All
We do seem to attract a few who don't like our efforts to protect human lives, I mean considering FreeRepublic is a pro-life site and this is a pro-life topic and that because this Terri topic is planted right in the middle of a popular troll crossing. So watch out, folks!
66 posted on 05/28/2007 11:23:38 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Gondring

You just quoted one of the most shopworn and disproven mantras yet. Is that all you can find in your box of lib talking points?


67 posted on 05/28/2007 11:25:17 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Gondring
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Yes, it is.

Thank you for the demonstration.

68 posted on 05/28/2007 11:27:46 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: MHGinTN

It’s a postmodern/liberal mindset: Instead of saying one thing and doing another; it would be nice if one actually did what they say they believe, and be consistent. Not try to have it ‘both ways’.

I am so sick of this ‘post-modern’ mindset, WHY Can’t things be simple again!


69 posted on 05/28/2007 11:30:12 AM PDT by JSDude1 (www.pence08.com.)
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To: CheyennePress

“I’m going to get blasted for saying this, but this should have been left at the state level. It’s unfortunate. I’m not wholly happy with how it turned out. But individual states have traditionally dealt with this issue.”

That’s what they said about slavery.

When a state gets so twisted around that it’s killing innocent people, it’s time for the rest of us to step in.


70 posted on 05/28/2007 11:30:51 AM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: CheyennePress

“I’m going to get blasted for saying this, but this should have been left at the state level. It’s unfortunate. I’m not wholly happy with how it turned out. But individual states have traditionally dealt with this issue.”

That’s what they said about slavery.

When a state gets so twisted around that it’s killing innocent people, it’s time for the rest of us to step in.


71 posted on 05/28/2007 11:30:56 AM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: Gondring; 8mmMauser
It must have been traumatic to find that the post-mortem examination showed that your preconceived notions of consciousness were wrong.

She was AWAKE, there are videos supporting it. Has it occurred to you that 13 days without hydration will sufficiently dry the brain to the point that it is impossible to determine when the damage took place?

72 posted on 05/28/2007 11:33:04 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Gondring
Hey Einstein... here's a link for you to read concerning eyewitness nurses caring for Terri and the care(less) treatment from the animal you so defend...MS. cut n paste

http://www.blogsforterri.com/archives/2005/03/former_nurse_re.php

73 posted on 05/28/2007 11:33:42 AM PDT by tflabo (Take authority that's ours)
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To: wagglebee

I would hate to find out what salt creek is. Rudy must be up salt creek these days without a paddle or paddling.


74 posted on 05/28/2007 11:34:12 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Semper

“You may certainly disagree, but artificially receiving food and water for several years with little hope of change, is not really living”

Well, it’s not dying.

“if not unconscious, it could be a severe form of torture. You might want to decide these matters for others but I do not.”

Not deciding meant not killing her. Killing her was deciding for her.


75 posted on 05/28/2007 11:35:15 AM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: 8mmMauser

I’m sure the NARAL WAckos will keep him company.


76 posted on 05/28/2007 11:35:57 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
She was AWAKE, there are videos supporting it. Has it occurred to you that 13 days without hydration will sufficiently dry the brain to the point that it is impossible to determine when the damage took place?

Obviously not...

77 posted on 05/28/2007 11:35:57 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser

“I was outside on the grounds when Terri was inside and she screamed in horror when she found out they were about to snuff her.”

Is that true? Can you substantiate that? Did you hear it?


78 posted on 05/28/2007 11:38:46 AM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: Gondring

“Like heck she was.”

Why in the world would you say that?

That’s like claiming...oh, I don’t know, that the Earth is flat. It’s one of those things that go beyond demonstrably false, all the way to ludicrous.

I am quite perplexed that anyone could pay the slightest attention to the issue and come away with that impression.


79 posted on 05/28/2007 11:42:12 AM PDT by dsc (There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. Edmund Burke)
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To: 8mmMauser

It’s also pro-Constitution, which includes the right to worship as we wish (and freedom from compulsion to worship), right to speak our political views (and freedom from compulsion to express our political views), right to life (and freedom from compulsion to live), etc.

I am pro-rights, including the right to life, and right of self-determination. I guess you don’t understand that.


80 posted on 05/28/2007 11:43:02 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring; 8mmMauser
It’s also pro-Constitution, which includes the right to worship as we wish

But you supported the right of the state to deny Terri Communion?

81 posted on 05/28/2007 11:45:40 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: tflabo
Also, our Terri Daily threads have run nonstop throughout and are a huge repository for sources of evidence, links, and eyewitness accounts including those of us who were on-scene. These mantras are shopworn and tired. Check the current Terri Dailies as well, topic being the book by Chery Ford, RN, and Dr. Craddock which presents a mountain of evidence on this case still held as a Cold Case in the Homicide division of the St. Petersburg Police Department.

Terri Dailies

82 posted on 05/28/2007 11:46:41 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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Comment #83 Removed by Moderator

To: dsc

When it ocurred I was outside talking with one of the monks, Brother Hilary, who was supporting the Schindler family. Suddenly an excited guy burst out of the hospice went straight for us and exclaimed that Terri just shrieked, as he understood it moments before, “I want to live!” He was thrilled that it had been witnessed by a cop and couldn’t be denied. A short while later, Attorney Waller made a statement to the press that it was said, approximately “I waaaaa...” Terri’s intent was clear to those who had ears. The press by none of our surprise smirked off the incident. Meanwhile, the cop underwent a sudden amnesia. What I witnessed was a first reaction by somebody there.


84 posted on 05/28/2007 11:53:02 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: tflabo
here's a link for you to read concerning eyewitness nurses caring for Terri

Ah yes... the "nurses" who weren't really nurses, but were just assistants. And then there's Carla Sauer Iyer, who was an LPN ("just a little dab [of therapy] 'll do ya") who claims to know more than the doctors and RNs who examined Mrs. Schiavo.

And let's not forget the investigations that found these claims groundless.

And let's not forget that getting terminated for stealing from a nursing home can make a person's later testimony a bit questionable.

And let's not forget that this nurse didn't document things when they supposedly happened--or even report the alleged mistreatment of Mrs. Schiavo--but then later made claims. Do you trust a nurse who wouldn't report a patient's abuse at the time?

85 posted on 05/28/2007 11:53:11 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Firebase Bastogne
Congress does not grant "rights", Congress can only grant privilege. Rights are inalienable and god given, they can't be granted or taken away.

You are absolutely correct and Congress was ignored when they tried to protect Terri's rights that Greer illegally infringed.

86 posted on 05/28/2007 11:53:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; Semper
Serious question...not trying to be antagonistic with this, honestly...

No, I think God alone should decide when and how we die.

If God tries to take your life by possessing a deer to run out in front of you, do you not swerve?

87 posted on 05/28/2007 11:55:44 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring
I am pro-rights, including the right to life, and right of self-determination. I guess you don’t understand that.

I sure understand it but you have not shown you understand the meaning of a right-to-die kill.

88 posted on 05/28/2007 11:56:28 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Gondring

Of course, we have God-given instincts, just like we eat when hungry, etc.


89 posted on 05/28/2007 11:56:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Gondring

You really need to open a new bag of mantras. These are indeed not very fresh and attract bugs.


90 posted on 05/28/2007 11:58:40 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Fudd Fan
I told them both that if the only things keeping me alive were food and water (like right now), they'd better not decide that I don't need 'em.

By those standards, since oxygen in the air is keeping you alive as well, anyone on a ventilator is not on artificial life support, and should never be disconnected. Air, food and water are not artifical life support, but the mechanism of delivery may be.

91 posted on 05/28/2007 12:21:46 PM PDT by retMD
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To: 8mmMauser
Terri was very happy right up to the moment when they stopped feeding her and giving her drink. ... She was conscious and aware of her surroundings.

The autopsy report does not support your assertions.

92 posted on 05/28/2007 12:25:11 PM PDT by retMD
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To: tflabo
she possibly could have learned to swallow on her own with therapy that MS purposely withheld along with other abuses to her.

According to the Guardian ad Litem's report, she had three swallowing studies, all of which showed she couldn't swallow. The autopsy report confirmed that she would not have been able to swallow safely.

93 posted on 05/28/2007 12:30:29 PM PDT by retMD
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To: wagglebee
She was AWAKE, there are videos supporting it. Has it occurred to you that 13 days without hydration will sufficiently dry the brain to the point that it is impossible to determine when the damage took place?

No, sorry. The videos were short bits edited out of many hours of random motions. You could do the same for many patients that were PVS. And no, the dehydration wouldn't keep the neuropathologist from accurately assessing the brain.

94 posted on 05/28/2007 12:34:10 PM PDT by retMD
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To: wagglebee
And the end result was that an innocent woman was MURDERED and any of these candidates would allow it to happen again.

The law says otherwise. Don't like it? Then change the law to remove the right of spouses to determine an incapacitated person's fate. Don't like that either? Then make sure people have living wills. We are a nation of laws, not emotions.

95 posted on 05/28/2007 12:35:58 PM PDT by montag813 (q)
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To: montag813; All
We are a nation of laws, not emotions.

As was Nazi Germany, that doesn't make all laws morally right.

96 posted on 05/28/2007 1:16:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; montag813
As was Nazi Germany, that doesn't make all laws morally right.

Godwin!

97 posted on 05/28/2007 2:00:22 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: retMD; tflabo

It sure doesn’t. The autopsy report doesn’t change reality at all so far as that goes. During those last days I was with Monsignor Malanowski each day right after his visits and he gave us progress reports on how Terri was reacting. Do I believe him or do I believe an autopsy report based on a brain starved for hydration for thirteen days, on whether she was aware surroundings?

I guess you are an MD. I do have twenty six years experience with our son who was worse off in that department than Terri and he was very much aware of his surroundings, and similar in many ways. During those twenty six years we received much solemn evaluation from MD’s who gave us gloom and doom about his life span and he proved them all wrong.

I am a conservative Catholic and Monsignor is a fine priest. Who do I believe?

Oh, my son was worse off than Terri for swallowing, too. He could swallow. Terri would have swallowed, too, if they would have let her. As an MD you must know, swallowing is fairly basic even to one whose brain had received the insult s Terri’s received.


98 posted on 05/28/2007 2:01:34 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: wagglebee

BUMP


99 posted on 05/28/2007 2:02:36 PM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping list - freepmail me to get on or off.)
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To: retMD

You seem to know about certain parts of Terri’s situation, yet spill out the standard line of Terri’s adversaries. Perhaps you can enlighten us on your perspective. Do you know any of the players in this travesty?


100 posted on 05/28/2007 2:06:15 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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