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1 posted on 05/28/2007 5:44:22 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot

“What’s wrong with Dr. Gonzalez? So far as anyone can tell, this rejection had little to do with his scientific research, and everything to do with the fact that Dr. Gonzalez believes the scientific evidence points to the idea of an intelligent designer.”

And it scares the heck out of the those that hope like heck there ain’t no God.


2 posted on 05/28/2007 5:46:07 PM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: SirLinksalot

For those who want to look at Prof. Guillermo Gonzalez’s Scientific qualifications, see here for his citation record among peer reviewed journals and other magazines :

http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200705/0761.html


3 posted on 05/28/2007 5:47:50 PM PDT by SirLinksalot
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To: SirLinksalot

>>“What’s wrong with Dr. Gonzalez? So far as anyone can tell, this rejection had little to do with his scientific research, and everything to do with the fact that Dr. Gonzalez believes the scientific evidence points to the idea of an intelligent designer.”<<

I’ve read a lot about this and I don’t think that is true.

His beliefs and credentials don’t seem to be in question. It is his position as a senior fellow in a group that works against science education. No science based department is going to want that association.

Now, we can discuss whether science related activities outside the classroom should be considered for tenure but if such activities can be considered, his are really big red flag.


10 posted on 05/28/2007 5:58:06 PM PDT by gondramB (No man can be brave who thinks pain the greatest evil)
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To: SirLinksalot
I read The Privileged Planet - a great work and backed up in every way possible.

I expect the Evolution Worshippers to show up on this thread anytime now.....

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13 posted on 05/28/2007 6:02:27 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: SirLinksalot

Well, let’s say for the sake of the argument that he is wrong.

A lot of scientists propose theories that turn out to be wrong. As long as they don’t fake or fudge their evidence, what’s so bad about that? If he can be proved wrong, then presumably it weakens the case for ID and indirectly helps to advance the science of astromy by eliminating one possible theory.

What is simply intolerable in this and similar cases is that he is being kicked out of his job like a criminal for proposing a politically incorrect thesis. That isn’t the way science is supposed to work. Various people propose various theories, and the better theories work their way to the top and the others are discarded. Or, alternatively, the book is simply ignored.

There is a kind of hysterical bigotry and intolerance on the part of the anti-ID people that is truly frightening, because it suggests that our scientific establishment has really gone onto ideological steroids and is unwilling to adhere to the normal rules of scientific discourse. Instead they turn to bullying, persecution, and activist judges to enforce their beliefs, and will tolerate no questions whatever of their views.


16 posted on 05/28/2007 6:04:25 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SirLinksalot
I’m guessing Iowa St. gets Fed funds.

is no tenure because of of beliefs a litmus tests ?

Could this go to the SCOTUS ?

17 posted on 05/28/2007 6:04:52 PM PDT by stylin19a (It's easier to get up at 6:00 AM to play golf than at 10:00 to mow the yard)
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To: SirLinksalot

Long story short, Gonzales is just another target and victim of the Godless left. We will see much more of this as the left continues its war on the core substance and beliefs of America.


19 posted on 05/28/2007 6:06:28 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: SirLinksalot

the time is gonna come when lots of the ID folks are
gonna build their own university, and do their
own research with own suppositions......I mean 1,000 or so
Ph.D.’s would make a formidable faculty....
The state run colleges/universities can’t stop them
from doing that.....


22 posted on 05/28/2007 6:09:24 PM PDT by Getready (Truth and wisdom are more elusive, and valuable, than gold and diamonds)
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To: SirLinksalot

Intelligent design is repeatedly attempting to play chess using checkers rules. If you want to play chess, you play by the rules of chess, or you aren’t playing chess, no matter how much you want others to think you are playing chess.

Science is the same way. It has very exact rules, and if you perform scientific experiments by those rules, you have performed a scientific experiment. Nothing more. It is a closed system. The problem comes when you either interpolate or extrapolate something else from a scientific experiment that is outside of the parameters of the experiment.

The only distinction science has over other studies is that if you follow the recipe of an experiment, anyone should be able to duplicate that same result, anywhere, if they follow the recipe, exactly. Adding nothing extra and taking nothing away.

And that is science. It intentionally ignores variables that might incidentally change the outcome of the experiment. This is because the vast majority of times, that strange variable won’t happen, so is not part of the recipe. If it does happen, then it is ignored, and the experiment is tried again until it makes the same predicted result that it is supposed to.

So why try to subvert the rules of chess, or science, except that you resent the clarity that both have. If you are a novice, you cannot beat a chess master if you play by the rules, so you try to change the rules. You cannot defy a scientifically conducted experiment, unless you try and alter or interfere with the recipe.

And this is why that professor was denied tenure. Because he was hired to teach and practice the very exacting rules of science. By advocating intelligent design, he as much as said that he does not follow the rules, or believe that in following the rules a scientific result will follow from a scientific experiment.

In a way, that is like a master chess player who tries to play by different rules against other chess players, because he believes in other rules. How can that be seen as other than cheating? If he does it so much as once in a formal setting, I could imagine him being stripped of his title.

Even if he is a master, he is not playing chess.


37 posted on 05/28/2007 6:31:14 PM PDT by Popocatapetl
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To: SirLinksalot
Sue the University Dr. Gonzalas.

Another scholar, Dr. Michael S. Adams at UNCW, who was also denied tenor, is doing just that. PDF.file

38 posted on 05/28/2007 6:31:22 PM PDT by TOneocon (The reason there is so much poverty is because of the uneven distribution of capitalism...Rush)
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To: SirLinksalot

i predict his detractors will end up in a large black hole that is very hot!


45 posted on 05/28/2007 6:43:40 PM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: SirLinksalot

“This most elegant system of the sun, planets, and comets could not have arisen without the design and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.” —Sir Isaac Newton, The Principia

These fools would deny tenure to Isaac Newton.

And Newton came to his conclusion without any knowledge of the incredible complexity of the simplest living cell. If he knew what we know now, he would have infinitely *more* reason to recognize ID.


78 posted on 05/28/2007 8:49:57 PM PDT by RussP
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To: SirLinksalot

Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us ... the atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into words. —Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)

And they’d deny Kelvin tenure too. Amazing what we have come to in this age of political correctness.


79 posted on 05/28/2007 8:52:56 PM PDT by RussP
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To: SirLinksalot

The more I study nature, the more I am amazed at the work of the Creator. —Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)

Pasteur too. Oh, well, he wasn’t much of a scientist anyway, was he. I guess he didn’t understand the “scientific method.”


80 posted on 05/28/2007 8:55:01 PM PDT by RussP
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To: SirLinksalot

Once again, there’s no evidence to support the claim that Gonzales was denied tenure because of anything related to ID.

And once again, the biggest problem with all this is with the tenure system itself. The tenure system should be outlawed.


87 posted on 05/28/2007 10:35:46 PM PDT by yahoo (There IS a solution to illegal immigration. It's called the Mexipult.)
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To: SirLinksalot; Cicero; EagleUSA; Rudder; Perdogg; gondramB; Getready; Coyoteman; elfman2; ...
"There is evidence for intelligent design in the universe."

Gosh, I love it when trial lawyers pretend to they can play scientist. He makes a claim about existence of evidence, and then fails to produce any. He'd better argue the law on this one, since he doesn't have any facts on his side.

Galileo, alive today, would recognize the "ID" con artists as of the same ilk that harassed him mercilessly.

"Instead they turn to bullying, persecution, and activist judges to enforce their beliefs, and will tolerate no questions whatever of their views.

That's a better description of the "ID" people than it is of the scientists. "ID" is a fraud invented to try to get around the Supreme Court rulings that prevent Creationism (religion) from being taught in public school biology classes, nothing more. The "ID'ers" are the first to use bullying and legal means to try to force their weird ideas on everyone else. You'll notice that this pro-ID piece at Townhall was written by ... a lawyer. A trial lawyer. For further explanation of the "ID" movement, see books including Monkey Girl by Edward Humes, or Forty Days and Forty Nights by Matthew Chapman.

It has nothing to do with any "Godless left." It has everything to do with his affiliation with the crackpot "Discovery Institute" which recently lost their "ID" case in Pennsylvania, and in the trial was exposed as just a bunch of Creationists.

"...time is gonna come when lots of the ID folks are gonna build their own university..."

Now that I'll agree with. There's huge money in the Creationism / "ID" racket, as Discovery Institute and Thomas More Law Center (funded by the guy who founded Domino's Pizza, very deep pockets and eager to throw away mountains of cash) have shown. They could build 20 universities if they ran their fundraising right.

Hats off to Popocatapetl who I think said it best at 37.
93 posted on 05/28/2007 11:21:52 PM PDT by omnivore
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To: SirLinksalot; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; Elsie; LiteKeeper; ...


You have been pinged because of your interest regarding news, debate and editorials pertaining to the Creation vs. Evolution debate - from the young-earth creationist perspective.
To to get on or off this list (currently the premier list for creation/evolution news!), freep-mail me:
Add me / Remove me



Sorry I'm a little slow getting this story out to everyone, but this is a pretty good summary. Very little surprise; this fellow joins Dr. Raymond Damadian, Dr. Richard von Sternberg and Francis Beckwith as victims of the tolerance train of evolution.

Some other links I've had waiting to pass along.

Intelligent Design Scientist Denied Tenure at Iowa State (what you can do to help!)

Iowa State Promotes Atheist Professor Who Equates Bible with Mein Kampf

Faculty Admits Intelligent Design was a Factor in Denying Tenure

World’s Premiere Scientific Journal Reports on Iowa State’s Denial of Tenure to Guillermo Gonzalez
175 posted on 05/29/2007 8:16:18 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (Don't go see Pirates 3! www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1839498/posts)
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To: SirLinksalot

Anthropogenic Global Warming is to Revelations as Evolution is to Genesis. You defy the powers that be, and you pay the price in the scientific world. What matters more and more isn’t whether something is truly scientific; what matters is who’s going to fund the work. He who pays the piper...


190 posted on 05/29/2007 9:59:40 PM PDT by TenthAmendmentChampion (Pray for our President and for our heroes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and around the world!)
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Darwins Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution The Battle of Beginnings: Why Neither Side Is Winning the Creation-Evolution Debate Science and Its Limits: The Natural Sciences in Christian Perspective
Darwin's Black Box:
The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution

by Michael J. Behe
hardcover
Molecular Machines: Experimental Support for the Design Inference
The Battle of Beginnings:
Why Neither Side Is Winning
the Creation-Evolution Debate

by Delvin Lee "Del" Ratzsch
Science and Its Limits:
The Natural Sciences in Christian Perspective

Del Ratzsch


200 posted on 05/30/2007 9:03:54 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 26, 2007.)
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To: SirLinksalot
Dr. Gonzalez believes the scientific evidence points to the idea of an intelligent designer

What scientific evidence points to this?

None that I've ever seen.

The most that we have here is a compelling philosophical argument.

206 posted on 05/30/2007 3:05:12 PM PDT by joseph20
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