Can Any Immigration Bill Be Saved?

hughhewitt.townhall.com ^ | 05/31/2007 | Hugh Hewitt

[potlatch]

LOL, looks like I’ll need a much bigger truck to pull it around, huh??

[ClaireSolt]

There is a lot of misinformation here. Opinions based on bad info are not woth holding or reading.

[potlatch]

Thanks Claire, I have not read through all the posts.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

It gets better: Drudge is reporting a Bush U-turn on global warming...

Bush is also pushing the LOST Treaty, something Reagan had categorically rejected and for good reason.

[Nonstatist]

I'm stunned that he chose not to read the tea leaves

He really does have a tin ear and is arrogant. Remember, he's a Bush.

[sarasmom]

Well, review my post #26 first.

No amnesty for anyone who illegally entered into this country.
Period.

That said, I have great compassion for all legal immigrant aspirants who have tried their very best to jump through all the ever changing bureaucratic hoops concocted by the union protected idiots, who pretend to be the competent and legal governing authority of the former INS, now termed the ICE.

Which is why I say secure the borders first.
Enforce all the laws against employers importing slave laborers.
Fix the immigration process system next.

We have plenty of room for legal immigrants, and also for those seeking temporary or permanent refuge here, from other socialist and communist nations.
The USA does not have a single room available for the economic refugees of failing socialist nations who rely upon their exported indentured slaves to send tithe money home, to support their home nation’s failed socialist governments.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Envision the Comprehensive Immigration Act of 2009.

It doesn't matter, as long as there are 41 GOP members in the Senate willing to stop democratic scams nothing will get through. Of course if they decide to "work" with them as they are now then we're all screwed.

[rolling_stone]

...A person who snuck into this country on December 31, 2006 (or December 31, 1996 for that matter) should be treated no better than one who applied legally on January 1, 2007. Can anyone offer me any reason why that should not be the case?....

In a just and fair world, those that broke the law would be behind those that didn’t, the Senate is backwards on this point.

[NVDave]

People calling for what you want are simply ignorant of the law and how absurdly widespread ID theft is. There is a third sets of lawbreakers in this larger issue:

The people who are cranking out false ID’s as fast as they can make them. A complete false-ID package, with Social Security card, driver’s license, birth cert can be had here in the southwest for (I’m told) about $2K. More if you want some additions to the package, like multiple DL’s.

How frequent is this situation? Well, let’s ask the SSA:

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/audittxt/A-03-03-13048.htm

Short answer: outlandish ID theft is happening in the US.

Currently, employers are required to obtain documents from applicants that prove eligibility for work in the US. The employer is supposed to furnish the SSN of the employee to the IRS on the I-9 forms.

The SSA/IRS now have a pilot program to allow employers to verify SSN’s and names as being matched. Let’s say that the SSN/name doesn’t match up. Let’s say that the SSN’s/names don’t match up for one racial group that keeps applying to your company for jobs.

And you keep turning down the applicants of non-matches. And the non-matches are 90%+ of one national origin or race.

Can you see the legal problem forming here?

It as much as says what you can’t do on the I-9 form:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

You can’t specify which of those documents you will accept. Most all of them are very easily forged.

Now, let’s say you don’t use the pilot program and cross-check the SSN/name. Let’s say you wait for the SSA/IRS to do this. You get a letter in the mail from the SSA “requesting more information” from the employe about the “discrepancy” in the SSN/name match.

The letter from the SSA says explicitly that you MAY NOT FIRE the employee because you’ve received this notice that the employee’s SSN and name don’t match up in the SSA’s records. You, as an employer, are supposed to give the employee time and support in “solving” their “discrepancy” of records.

There’s really only one reason why you, as an employer, would be getting one of these letters: the SSN you’ve been given belongs to someone else, with a different name, who has already submitted earnings and payroll taxes to the SSA. This means that the SSN you’ve received has been stolen from someone legit. The reason why illegals do this is because most employers don’t get these letters until two to three years of employment has passed. By the time the employer gets one of these SSA notices of discrepancy, the illegal alien he employed is down the road and gone.

You want to sanction employers? OK, fine, but let’s close ALL the loopholes. Here’s what has to happen:

1. Uncle Sammy creates a way for employers to be able to verify the SSN, visa/green card info for job applicants. If you’re supposed to report these numbers, then employers should be able to check these documents with the government and know that the documents they’re getting are good. The government should create a system whereby the employer is required to check the SSN/name validity before offering employment. On the I-9 form, the employer should be required to write in a log # of the session where the SSN/name was checked with the SSA database.

Likewise, the government should give employers other information at the same time: a NCIC check for felonies, wants and warrants would be nice too.

2. The law must require that the employer NOT offer a job until the background check comes back showing consistent ID status — ie, the ID documents jive with what is already known about this ID or person.

3. If the SSA/IRS comes back with a notice of the employee’s failure to match the SSN/name, or some other discrepancy in the documentation provided to the employer, then the employer is required to either (depending upon the time of the discovery) refuse to offer a job or fire the employee on the spot.

4. The employer refusing employment or terminating employment shall be indemnified against all civil claims of discrimination by employees so fired for providing bogus ID.

As to your last comment about outlaw business people being tax-evaders: check out that OIG report. When you read through all the SSA gobbledigook, you see that those employers are submitting payroll taxes and withholding for the IRS. The money submitted cannot be credited to the correct accounts because the ID irregularity.

In that OIG report from the SSA, go read Appendix G. Really read it, and understand what is being said in there. The employers were making a legally supportable effort to verify the documents. And the docs were still wrong. There was no opportunity for the enforcement action you so zealously want.

You’re going to have to admit that false ID is a big problem. If people really want illegal immigration stopped, we’ve got to withdraw the economic candy that attracts the illegals here. To do that, we’re going to have to achieve a much tighter control over ID documents and ID checks than we have now. Once the ID checks are enforced, and employers are allowed to summarily fire people for bad ID, then the illegal problem will simply deport itself.

BTW — the recent “comprehensive immigration” bill makes this situation only worse, not better. The best immigration bill I could envision would be:

a) a fence.
b) a huge revamp of ID documents for immigration and visa control.
c) a comprehensive employment eligibility verification system.

NB, there is nothing in my proposal about work visas, guest workers or Z visas. My three-point proposal would end illegal immigration in a very short amount of time. It would also cause those here illegally to deport themselves as their employment dried up.

[NVDave]

BTW, a better version of the report is to be had at:

http://www.ssa.gov/oig/ADOBEPDF/A-03-03-13048.pdf

[ClaireSolt]

Pretty good explanation. However, I9 forms are never submitted to the government. They are just part of an employee file. An unscrupulous biz won't use them and no one will ever know. I ran into that when I was hired to manage a company in Miami. When I found no I9 forms, I brought one from home. Oops. I was quickly fired.

The SS has lots of info that would help detectives investigate identity theft, but currently they can't get at it. I am for removing this wall.

[The_Eaglet]

Thanks for posting this.

[dragnet2]

Can Any Immigration Bill Be Saved?

When I find someone that speaks English, I'll ask them.

[theymakemesick]

Amazingly simple! And the senate thinks it takes 326 pages to put together an immigration bill.

[ChildOfThe60s]

the security voter-- has left the room

Duh. Ya think terrorists having an open border on the south damages Bush's credibility on national security? How many Americans will die because terrorists stroll over the border and make a big hit?

Legal citizens have to suffer DRE's to get on a plane, but millions of illegals can cross the border with impunity. These same illegals can stand in our streets and give us the finger with impunity (literally & metaphorically). Our law enforcement officials are told to leave them alone. The executive branch of the federal government refuses to enforce our laws.

Does the President want to know why we are fed up? Take a look Mr. Bush, this is why:

[sarasmom]

I wasn’t an F15 pilot either.
LOL!

But some of the finest men I ever met were...

[stevie_d_64]

But we already have enforcement and deportation laws and procedures...

They need to stop wasting time (with this reform BS) and get on the stick...

I’m really wondering why I feel compelled to make yet another call to both my senators to get with the program at hand...One’s 50/50 on this reform bill, and the other can’t wait to vote yea on it...I think both need to be fired for their position on this issue...

[Exton1]

I would add that the ICE is called after Emergency treatment.

[Exton1]

11. Enforce English only
12 Allow employers to discriminate against immigrants that do not speak English, or have proper ID
13. NO SANCTUARY CITIES. Any law enforcer should be able to check immigration status, and offenders immediately to be deported, no trial needed. If they need a trial they can sit out there time out of the country, and pay for there own way back in, with a short term 5 day visa.

[Exton1]

14 No amnesty for anyone who illegally entered into this country. No citizenship EVER.