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In Vermont, nacent secession movement gains traction
http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_g ^ | June3, 2007 | John Curran

Posted on 06/03/2007 1:39:50 PM PDT by television is just wrong

MONTPELIER, Vt. --At Riverwalk Records, the all-vinyl record store just down the street from the state Capitol, the black "US Out of Vt.!" T-shirts are among the hottest sellers. But to some people in Vermont, the idea is bigger than a $20 novelty. They want Vermont to secede from the United States -- peacefully, of course. Disillusioned by what they call an empire about to fall, a small cadre of writers and academics is plotting political strategy and planting the seeds of separatism. They've published a "Green Mountain Manifesto" subtitled "Why and How Tiny Vermont Might Help Save America From Itself by Seceding from the Union." They hope to put the question before citizens at Town Meeting Day next March, eventually persuading the state Legislature to declare independence, returning Vermont to the status it held from 1777 to 1791.

"The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable -- it's too big, it's too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens," said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession. "Congress and the executive branch are being run by the multinationals. We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war. If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire." Such movements have a long history. Key West, Fla., staged a mock secession from America in the 1980s. The Town of Killington, Vt., tried to break away and join New Hampshire in 2004, and Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas all have some form of secession organizations today.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Government; US: Vermont; Unclassified
KEYWORDS: secession; two
wait til Kalifornia wants to seceed and join Mexico.
1 posted on 06/03/2007 1:39:51 PM PDT by television is just wrong
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To: television is just wrong

oh, and Nevada, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah.


2 posted on 06/03/2007 1:40:31 PM PDT by television is just wrong (Amnesty is when you allow them to return to their country of origin without prosecution.)
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To: television is just wrong

There is already an existing thread.


3 posted on 06/03/2007 1:40:36 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: television is just wrong

indeed...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1844160/posts


4 posted on 06/03/2007 1:41:03 PM PDT by xcamel ("It's Thompson Time!")
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To: television is just wrong

Go ahead; uh huh. Go ahead!!!


5 posted on 06/03/2007 1:42:04 PM PDT by no dems ( Dear God, how much longer are you going to let Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd live?)
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To: television is just wrong

Howie Dean would probably have to leave the DNC, Bernie Sanders and Pat Leahy would definitely have to leave the Senate...

...Get ‘er done!


6 posted on 06/03/2007 1:42:40 PM PDT by RichInOC ("YEEEAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!")
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To: television is just wrong
Would this mean getting rid of Bernie Sanders too?

I don't know. This is awfully tempting.

7 posted on 06/03/2007 1:44:22 PM PDT by JCEccles (“Politics ain’t beanbag” Finley Peter Dunne)
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To: television is just wrong

Go ahead. And take Massachusetts with you.


8 posted on 06/03/2007 1:46:09 PM PDT by lesser_satan (FRED THOMPSON '08)
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To: lesser_satan

there won’t be much of the US left. and they don’t want Mass. they (Mexico)wants all americans to move into the 13 original colonies. so that they just take it all back.


9 posted on 06/03/2007 1:52:25 PM PDT by television is just wrong (Amnesty is when you allow them to return to their country of origin without prosecution.)
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To: lesser_satan

And Marin County.


10 posted on 06/03/2007 1:53:46 PM PDT by CAWats
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To: television is just wrong

They need to get in line.


11 posted on 06/03/2007 1:58:41 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: television is just wrong

Can’t we just dig it up with one of those tree movers and move it to Mexico.”Here take Vermont and stay home from now on”


12 posted on 06/03/2007 2:06:09 PM PDT by ontap
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To: CindyDawg

I will trade Vermont for Alberta.


13 posted on 06/03/2007 2:16:13 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: television is just wrong
I would have guessed New Hampshire would'a been first to start beating the drum.

Any porcupines with comments on getting beaten to the starting line?

14 posted on 06/03/2007 2:37:49 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: RobbyS

I see you and raise you Saskatchewan


15 posted on 06/03/2007 2:38:38 PM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: television is just wrong
I would have guessed New Hampshire would'a been first to start beating the drum.

Any porcupines with comments on getting beaten to the starting line?

16 posted on 06/03/2007 2:39:23 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: gr8eman

Throw in Manitoba and I will give you the rest of New England. Ole Teddy would be much more at home in Ottawa.


17 posted on 06/03/2007 2:57:26 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: television is just wrong

What about Vermont’s share of the National Debt?

That was always a big topic up here whenever Quebec talked about separating from Canada.

Debt calculated per land area seceeeded, or per population?


18 posted on 06/03/2007 2:57:52 PM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: y'all
"Congress and the executive branch are being run by the multinationals. We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war. If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire."

Well, its pretty hard to argue with the overall thrust of the argument, which is much the same as the ones made by conservative opponents of big government.

But secession is not needed '- to preserve what's left of the Republic and to peaceably take apart big bro gov't'.

The people of a State have enormous powers [even the duty] to ignore unconstitutional federal acts, and to appeal obeying them through our court system. Civil disobedience would work is a State refused to cooperate with fed schemes, - on constitutional grounds.

19 posted on 06/03/2007 3:26:45 PM PDT by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: television is just wrong
...taking with it America’s reserve of antiques.
20 posted on 06/03/2007 4:06:50 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: television is just wrong

In chance they can take Ithaca and Berkeley with them?


21 posted on 06/03/2007 4:10:16 PM PDT by Wheee The People (Go FRed)
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To: television is just wrong
Let the liberals have their utopia. This is a great ‘fly paper’ strategery to draw liberals from all over the country to create their State of Social Justice. Life there will be amazingly good, and everyone will make more money than they ever did under greedy capitalism. They have the chance to set up the best socialist government ever devised. They will be so wealthy that each person will be supplied according to his needs. Each citizen will gladly pay the tiny tax according to his abilities to earn.

Crippled children will quickly walk, thanks to amazing medical research coming out of embryonic stem cell research. There will be very few crippled children to do this research for. Any child that has the slightest imperfection while in the womb will quickly be aborted.

I hope that the Left wants to take Vermont out of the Union. I can’t wait to hear the public debate on the legality of secession, which can only occur with great conflicts in the Left’s understanding of Lincoln. But we know that if the Left wants something bad enough, that no prior myth is too big for the left to want to talk past, in fast spin mode, in order to justify what they want today.

22 posted on 06/03/2007 4:24:31 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: television is just wrong

I feel sorry for the old Vermont natives who have gotten their State hijacked by every left-wing moron in the northeastern United States. Case in point: Howeird Dean.


23 posted on 06/03/2007 5:29:39 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: television is just wrong

I’m voting for the people of Vermont to put out the left-wing trash.


24 posted on 06/03/2007 5:31:00 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: BlazingArizona

and maple syrup.


25 posted on 06/03/2007 6:01:20 PM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: canuck_conservative
"What about Vermont’s share of the National Debt?"

There are laws against peonage that should apply to State as well as man. The National Debt is perpetual, of the nature that Jefferson warned us about. It is illicit and against Natural Law. Repudiating the national debt should be on the table provided Vermont is serious about implenting truly honest money the Common Law way.

Vermont should not secede. Vermont should simply ask the United States to please leave Vermont peacefully. All other states should do the same. This would have the effect of restoring the Republic without breaking it up into confederacies.

26 posted on 06/03/2007 6:49:01 PM PDT by Jason_b
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To: television is just wrong

Hmmm…Let me see. We down South made this case over 140 years ago. We believed that it was the right, when the (federal) government did not serve our citizens needs, that it was “our right to alter or abolish it.”

Mr. Lincoln and a bunch of folks up North — including VERMONT — killed hundreds of thousands of our forefathers and burnt down or stole everything they owned to keep us from achieving what the good citizens of Vermont are now increasingly demanding.

Surprisingly, I FULLY SUPPORT Vermont’s right to secede. Yea, I am THRILLED by it. We didn’t want to be in a Union with them for at least 14 decades. If they get out — and other blue states, for that matter — so much the better.

Either way, the day of “the Union” is coming to an end — not because I desire it, but because the partners in this political, shotgun marriage just can’t agree or get along. I’d rather have an amicable divorce than a murder-suicide.


27 posted on 06/04/2007 6:59:06 AM PDT by patriot preacher (To be a good American Citizen and a Christian IS NOT a contradiction.)
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To: patriot preacher

quite frankly, I support Vermont,

I do not support the seccession of the Southwest, because it is a HOSTILE take over on the part of the Mexican government.


28 posted on 06/04/2007 7:06:36 AM PDT by television is just wrong (Amnesty is when you allow them to return to their country of origin without prosecution.)
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To: canuck_conservative

Exactly. While it could be argued that the constitution and declaration represent a voluntary association, most recognize that secession as a practical matter ended in 1865.


29 posted on 06/04/2007 7:18:17 AM PDT by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

We are not the nation we were in 1856. Or even in 1956. Imagine, for the sake of discussion, that a state does secede from the Union, by passing resoulutions.

Would the anti-war Democrats now suddenly change their spots? Would the editorial board of the NY Times which has oppposed “Bush’s adventure” in Iraq now be OK with, say Obama using the US Army against it’s own citizens?

And suppose Vermont does not even field any military. They simply keep passing laws. How would that be fought? Would Federal Prosecutors be used to arrest and jail the State legislature.


30 posted on 06/04/2007 10:57:31 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: television is just wrong

I support them. Goodbye, have fun, best of luck.


31 posted on 06/04/2007 10:58:52 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Famously frisky)
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To: Jack Black

Or put another way, a lot of things don’t work the first time but eventually do. The Federal Reserve bank was the third or fourth attempt at nationalizing banking under a private cartel.

I don’t think the example of the Civil War is the end of the story.


32 posted on 06/04/2007 10:58:55 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: television is just wrong

“The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable — it’s too big, it’s too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens,”

I agree with this too.


33 posted on 06/04/2007 11:01:17 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Famously frisky)
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To: Jack Black
Would the anti-war Democrats now suddenly change their spots? Would the editorial board of the NY Times which has oppposed “Bush’s adventure” in Iraq now be OK with, say Obama using the US Army against it’s own citizens?

Be realistic. We all know libs view consistency as the hobgoblin of little minds. Not only do they engage in double standards, they usually engage in triple or quadruple standards. I've even meant some honest libs who freely admit it.

Case in point: compare and contrast, in 500 words or less, the allegations against Clarence Thomas with the multitude of proven sexual offenses Slick Willie engaged in.

Another example, what was the attitude of the usual lib suspects to Clinton's Kosovo (Serbian) war? They loved it! It does not bother them a bit that there are still US troops there protecting Muslim terrorists who are committing genocide against Christians.

So, as usual it will come down to ends justifying the means.

If it's a leftist secession, libs will be all for it. If it's a conservative secession, expect to see the seceding states/region burned to the ground.

34 posted on 06/04/2007 11:16:42 AM PDT by Martin Tell ("It is the right, good old way you are in: keep in it.")
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