Posted on 06/03/2007 9:32:03 PM PDT by lowbridge
Posted by Lynn Davidson on June 2, 2007 - 13:52.
Maybe Michael Moore should listen to people who actually have socialized medicine—at least those who are allowed to disagree with their government’s policies. Singer Elton John’s partner David Furnish slammed Michael Moore and his latest docuganda “Sicko” for misrepresenting the quality of the US health care system. On June 02, Furnish stated, ”[America] was the only place to get good treatment”(emphasis mine):
Elton John's partner David Furnish has hit out at filmmaker Michael Moore for criticising the US healthcare system.
The star - who lives in England - insists new movie Sicko is inaccurate, and has praised America's medical services - branding it "the only place to get good treatment".
He says: "I completely disagree with Michael Moore. With my own father, when he was ill, the only option was to hire a jet and fly him to America. It was the only place to get good treatment."
Furnish flew his father, who lives in Canada, to America for the fast, advanced quality care that he does not believe can be had elsewhere.
According to Canadian journalists who saw “Sicko,” Moore gave “lavish praise” Canada’s socialized health care system in comparison to the US, but once Canadian journalists challenged those claims, Moore changed his tune about Canada's medical utopia and began bad-mouthing the country’s program. Although he now criticizes the Canadian system, he still states that it is better than ours, although to “insult” it, he claimed, “The Canadian system…if not that far above us…The French system is the best in the world.”
If Canada is that much better than the US, why would Furnish leave the country? If socialized medicine that better than the free-market system, then why didn’t Furnish take his father to the UK or France for the “best in the world” level of treatment? Instead, he chose the US. It could have even been free of charge in France.
I wonder if Michael Moore will call Sir Elton’s partner a greedy corporate dupe for spreading the capitalist lie that American health care is better than the rest of the world's. Surely, he’ll chastise Furnish for not dutifully waiting in line for months for treatment, even though survivability rates for many diseases like breast cancer (fatal to 46% in UK vs. 25% in US) and prostate cancer (fatal to 57% of Brits, 25% of Canadians and 19% of Americans) are significantly lower in Canada and the UK than in the US.
David Furnish and Elton John are a popular celebrity couple in the UK and Europe. Any time that a celebrity bashes Bush or the US or supports Moore, the media are quick to cover it. Will they cover this celebrity attacking “Sicko” and Michael Moore? So far, not in America, and only minimal coverage in Europe. It is still early, so it is possible.
Contact Lynn at tvisgoodforyou2 AT yahoo DOT com
Former PM Silvio Berlusconi came to Ohio for heart treatment. There is a reason.
>>The French system is the best in the world.<<
Funny, I seem to recall thousands (15 thousand?) of elderly French died from heat stroke a couple of years ago. So many died that the government had trouble finding air conditioned chambers to hold all the bodies.
And when Moore finally has his heart attack or stroke, he will seek the best aid money can by, not in Cuba or even France. It will be right here in the USA. Book it.
Castro’s doctors nearly killed him he had to fly in dovtord to save his life. Too bad he had doctors that would save him.
Doncha’ just hate it when the douche bags fly!/s
Free medical meant no orthopedic doctor to look at the ankle, a 1950's style plaster cast, and pick a pair of crutches the barrel. To top that the nurse tried to reuse a needle from another patient to give him a shot.
If you wanted a fiberglass cast and properly fit crutches that costs extra.
Don’t bet on this story appearing in the NY Slimes....
i’m not buying it
And those fawning Mooreons at Cannes continue to kiss his ass.
Docuganda? I love it.
>Furnish flew his father, who lives in Canada, to America for the fast, advanced quality care that he does not believe can be had elsewhere.<
Take note, America. Tonight you saw EVERY democratic candidate for president just salivating over the prospect of ruining our current healthcare system.
In Mark Steyn’s book he said there are more MRI machines in Philadelphia than in all of Canada. No wonder you don’t have to pay for it there, there is a good chance you don’t have access to what you need.
I concluded that politicians can't be trusted to run something. They are always interested in the hot issue of the day and will let something like a power plant or medical equipment go in favor of whatever is new and sexy. Also, they were all running around in chauffered limosines and paying themselves controversial salaries while services suffered. Give me free enterprise any day.
Years ago the Queen of Saudi Arabia came to Arizona for medical treatment and stayed for several months. Michael Moore is an idiot.
I like the term “crockumentary” to describe Moore’s cinema screeds.
I believed the cr@p about the wonderful European health care UNTIL I LIVED IN SWITZERLAND. True, more things are covered by insurance, and all that, but the care, oh my L-rd.
All of the hospitals except the American clinic had bathrooms DOWN THE HALLS, none in the patients’ rooms.
The doctors were like gods because they could not be sued, ever. One gynecologist had his patients strip in a dressing area, then parade NAKED through his wood paneled office to the examining room, WHILE DOC WAS SITTING AT HIS DESK.
They have never heard of paper privacy gowns there. Also no fresh paper covers for the examining tables, which often smelled heavily of the sweat from the previous patient. At one clinic you were supposed to put on a cloth gown you retrieved from a closet, and then return said gown back to the closet and back onto the hanger, ostensibly for the next patient. Ugh.
While I did have some wonderful doctors while there, I had some ghastly ones who got away with such terrible things that would never have allowed them to continue medical practice in the USA.
I never understood how Cuba could possibly have good medical care when they don’t even have soap. I could be wrong, but I always thought soap was a pre-requisite for quality medical care.
Years ago the Premier of the Province of Quebec, Robert Bourassa, had cancer and he immediately flew to the Mayo Clinic. Now, I wonder why he did that? Probably the same reason that his successor, Jacques Parizeau, educated his children at Oxford.
I won’t tell any more Elton John and Furnish jokes.
...and I know some good ones...
but, now have some respect for the man.
Of course not. They are self-serving. The ones who claim to be altruistic are the least. Self-interest hums just beneath the surface in the actions of all policians. Furthermore, they are particularly dangerous because they are skilled in the techniques of manipulation.
The amazing thing is that millions of people are struggling to increase the power, scope, and reach of these self-serving, manipulative politicians and the Frankenstein's monster government that serves them and their interests!
Our Canadian friends (now living in the US) said Canadian health care is great...... as long as you don’t get sick.
For me, the most effective arguments against socialized medicine are the same arguments used against...socialism.
I believe in Free Market Capitalism.
Nothing motivates people like money. Money can buy a roof over your head, food for the table, clothes for your back and a vacation in Tahiti if you have enough of it.
Consequently, the desire for more money can drive a lot of positive behavior in systems that effectively supress the negative behavior that is often manifested by greed.
I have worked in the Health Care Industry since 1985, and I use the term “Health Care Industry” deliberately. When it is frankly referred to by that phrase, people are often offended or horrified. But there is no need to be.
Competition drives costs down, and while there is not competition for health care the same way there is competition for your money that is spent on food, clothes and computers (due to the way reimbursement for services takes place, a GIANT money suck in itself) there is competition at the hospital level.
Unless you have worked intimately with it, you would be surprised by the cutthroat competition hospitals have with each other in a region to get customers, usually by taking them away from your competitors.
Hospitals have to cut costs by streamlining processes to make them more efficient, providing better pre and post-operative care in order to minimize length-of-stay. Hospitals have to shop for the best deals on pharmaceuticals, contrast agents and other materials such as catheters, needles and other consumable items.
Most importantly, hospitals are forced to stay competitive with salaries in order to attract and keep qualified, motivated top of the line personnel. Hospitals, like many other entities in a capitalistic environment, have found that the worst thing you can do is to allow your pay scales to drop below the market norms. It is a cut-throat business, hospitals stealing employees from each other, jacking up salaries to attract those employees. If you don’t pay...your competitor will. Your best people will leave and go to the hospital that is paying well. Their morale and performance at that institution will go up, yours will go down.
The end result is: patient care will suffer. If you have not managed your health care business appropriately, your patients will receive worse care than your healthy competitor.
Your patients will be subjected to rude, stressed, overworked employees.
Your patients will wait longer for a nurse to visit them in their bed.
Your physicians, nurses and technical staff will work longer, more stressful hours for less pay than their competitors, and will be more prone to making a mistake.
Your Information Systems will atrophy and not be upgraded. You will not be able to afford a new digital radiology system and will still work from traditional film. Your competitor WILL put in a new digital radiology system, as well as speech recognition software for dictation AND digital mammography units, and will trumpet that advantage in the advertisements they will pepper the media with in your locale.
Your institution will have a higher post-op mortality rate, there will be more critical mistakes, and the state and federal regulating agencies will notice, and come to inspect your hospital. Articles will appear in the daily newspaper, and you will see your hospital logo on the evening news referring to the poor patient care.
Nursing unions will go on strike, good physicians will leave for greener pastures, and sometimes, the hospital, often a community icon, goes broke. Those people in that community have to now drive 20 miles to a different hospital. Trauma patients have fewer places to be taken to, and stories appear about needless deaths due to ER’s being shut down or on diverson.
THAT is what happens to hospitals that do not run their institutions like a BUSINESS. What makes it a business is money.
But just because you have to run it like a business does NOT mean you have to treat people like widgets on an assembly line. If you do a good job running the business end, pay well, provide a stable, modern environment, people are more efficient and happier, deliver better care, and patients are the beneficiaries.
Sure. Our medical care in America is expensive. And it is not perfect. Just as there are a lot of horror stories about socialized medicine, there are many about horrible mistakes in American medicine. But we do deliver the best care in the world for the most people. Nobody is ever denied care because they cannot pay in this country. That is a myth. You walk into an ER, you get care. You make an appointment to see a doctor and you are uninsured, you get a session with a financial counselor. You may sign a paper in a non-emergent situation stating that you are responsible for paying for treatment, but you still get the care, and in nearly all cases, the quality of care is blind to the amount of money you can pay.
You may have to pay $5 a month for the rest of your life, but it can be done and is done.
If you take money out of the situation, all the benefits of competition disappear. Everyone gets lousy care. Or, sometimes you don’t get that care.
Capitalism works. It is the engine that has driven more prosperity and good for mankind than nearly any other movement. It works in industry. And it works in Health Care. It doesn’t work perfectly, by any means. But it works a heck of a lot better than Socialized Heath Care!
Socialized medicine is terrific as long as you don’t really need it...
For the most basic of services, I’m sure that it’s just fine. The basic health needs that are often ignored by people here in the US until things get out of hand and require more immediate medical care... Or those who simply decide to use emergency services as their “primary care” (guess who they tend to be?)
But once you need specialized care, socialized medicine breaks down. Because medical care is inherently a personalized service, yet socialism, in all its guises, is for “the people.” So there’s a bit of a contradiction there.
Mark
I’m certain the quality of everything is better when you have Elton John’s money to spend on it.
But it was quite obvious to me that the personnel KNEW that their pay came from the insurance provided by MY employer. I was given the run of the place and was invited to help myself to coffee from the stand at the nurses station. MY satisfaction was as important as that of my wife. They made it as pleasant an experience for both of us as I could imagine.
I didn’t know Elton was a Chickenhawk, but I’m not surprised.
I like the health care I have. I don’t want or need The Shrews “Free” health care.
One of the best bumper stickers re National Health care asks a question along these lines:
“Do you really WANT going to the doctor
to be like going to the DMV?”
The Canadian system is also screwed up in regard to what is necessary and what is elective surgery. I have a cousin who had to wait 9 months for surgery to remove pre-cancerous tumors becuase she was told that such surgery is elective?!?
When my liberal coworkers talk about the busloads of Americans going to Canada to buy cheap drugs, I always respond that they must be passing the busloads of Canadians coming to America for lifesaving “elective” surgeries. Shuts them right up!
And why did Elton John and John Lennon decide to live in the US?
Lower taxes.
Yes, it does. A doctor has an incentive to treat (sometimes overly so) where his or her living depends on it. Where health care is viewed as a fixed quantity to be rationed out, a doctor has a disincentive to treat. It isn't complicated.
It is only complicated to people who think that health care should be free.
Everything has costs, and how those costs are managed has a direct effect on the quality of care.
Poorly managed (government) costs mean poor care.
A business that must be self sufficient is going to attempt to keep renewing and improving itself to attract customers. If they don’t, they will be out of business and customers will not have to experience poor service.
A “business” on the dole that is going to get a fixed amount of money regardless, has no incentive whatsoever besides an altruistic one. Hey, that gives me an idea.
Let’s let the altruistic libs pay for and manage their own health care system, while the conservatives manage and pay for our own.
Let’s see who get sick firstest and longest.
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