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Polynesians Beat Columbus To The Americas
New Scientist ^ | 6-4-2007 | Emma Young

Posted on 06/04/2007 5:58:20 PM PDT by blam

Polynesians beat Columbus to the Americas

22:00 04 June 2007
NewScientist.com news service
Emma Young

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Prehistoric Polynesians beat Europeans to the Americas, according to a new analysis of chicken bones.

The work provides the first firm evidence that ancient Polynesians voyaged as far as South America, and also strongly suggests that they were responsible for the introduction of chickens to the continent - a question that has been hotly debated for more than 30 years.

Chilean archaeologists working at the site of El Arenal-1, on the Arauco Peninsula in south-central Chile, discovered what they thought might be the first prehistoric chicken bones unearthed in the Americas. They asked Elizabeth Matisoo-Smith at the University of Auckland, New Zealand, and colleagues to investigate.

The group carbon-dated the bones and their DNA was analysed. The 50 chicken bones from at least five individual birds date from between 1321 and 1407 - 100 years or more before the arrival of Europeans.

Two-week journey

However, this date range does coincide with dates for the colonization of the easternmost islands of Polynesia, including Pitcairn and Easter Island.

And when the El Arenal chicken DNA was compared with chicken DNA from archaeological sites in Polynesia, the researchers found an identical match with prehistoric samples from Tonga and American Samoa, and a near identical match from Easter Island.

(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agriculture; aintnobodyherebutus; americas; animalhusbandry; chickens; columbus; dietandcuisine; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; huntergatherers; polynesia; polynesians
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I believe sweet potatos from South America made it out into the Pacific Islands well before the date of these chicken bones.(?)
1 posted on 06/04/2007 5:58:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; Coyoteman
GGG Ping.
2 posted on 06/04/2007 5:58:56 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Kon Tiki, Aku Aku, Thor Heryrdahl, etc.


3 posted on 06/04/2007 6:02:30 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: blam

The polynesians, the vikings, the chinese, the atlantians, the celts? The only ones who count are the ones who made a go of it....namely the indians.


4 posted on 06/04/2007 6:04:29 PM PDT by pissant
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To: blam
I'm still wondering how the Polynesians made it to Hawaii. Doesn't anyone else find it odd that some men would sail out into the middle of a huge ocean in a canoe and find land 2000 miles away; and they would take women along?. What were they doing? Why would enough Polynesians set out to have any statistical chance of even finding Hawaii? Are all Hawaiians supposedly descendants of one Polynesian pair, or were there several? People who question the conventional wisdom would like to know.

ML/NJ

5 posted on 06/04/2007 6:06:52 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: pissant

Casino licenses for everybody who might have gotten here before Columbus!


6 posted on 06/04/2007 6:06:56 PM PDT by Roy Tucker ("You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality"--Ayn Rand)
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To: blam
Ancient Polynesians were great explorers, but tended to settle only in uninhabited islands. It seems that if they found other people, they would usually turn around and go home, she says.

Good policy; probably protected them from diseases for which they had no immunity. I guess you CAN choose your neighbors after all.

7 posted on 06/04/2007 6:07:12 PM PDT by Dysart
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To: truth_seeker
Kon Tiki, Aku Aku, Thor Heryrdahl, etc.

DNA studies have found no evidence South American Indians settled Polynesia thus proving Heyrdahl's theories of the settlement of Polynesia from South America incorrect.

Interesting lesson though - because of the spectacular nature of his voyage, his flamboyance, etc. people haven't really noticed the key fact he was wrong, and some nerds in labs with DNA who aren't interesting were right.

8 posted on 06/04/2007 6:07:15 PM PDT by Strategerist
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To: Roy Tucker

ROFL!


9 posted on 06/04/2007 6:07:40 PM PDT by pissant
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To: blam

And the Vikings beat them anyway, also if the peace loving polys met them, there would have been village ruins.

Still the quote from Civilization 2 “Viking Scientists unlock the secrets of the Manhattan project” sends chills down my spine.


10 posted on 06/04/2007 6:13:53 PM PDT by Otaku6
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To: blam
Scholars swim in choppy waters: Did Polynesians visit Southern California many centuries ago? The evidence — some fishhooks, a boat design, and a few words in common — is limited. But to some those clues are tantalizing, even persuasive.

[snip]

11 posted on 06/04/2007 6:14:51 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: blam

Somebody got corn to the Americas or they got it to the Middle East.

“Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt, Jacob said unto his sons,Why do ye look one upon another? And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is corn in Egypt: get you down thither, and buy for us from thence; that we may live, and not die.”—Genesis 42:1, 2.


12 posted on 06/04/2007 6:15:29 PM PDT by BGHater
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To: Dysart

She needs to do some sailing in the Pacific, you don’t turn around and go home in the slug boats they had back then. Even modern sailing boats of today with GPS have a tough go to windward.


13 posted on 06/04/2007 6:19:47 PM PDT by gbs
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To: ml/nj
Those are all good questions. How 'bout: Where did they get the drinking water for this trek? The couldn't drink sea water. Did they carry their own? How? And how much? Esp. considering they didn't know of any islands along the way...or for that matter, they didn't know if there was anything anywhere out there.
14 posted on 06/04/2007 6:21:40 PM PDT by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: ml/nj
“I’m still wondering how the Polynesians made it to Hawaii. Doesn’t anyone else find it odd that some men would sail out into the middle of a huge ocean in a canoe and find land 2000 miles away; and they would take women along?.”

Seems obvious to me. Lose a war and run away. Their mission: simple survival.

Wars are endemic in more primitive societies. An excellent book on the subject is: War Before Civilization.

15 posted on 06/04/2007 6:21:52 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: BGHater
Somebody got corn to the Americas or they got it to the Middle East.

“Now when Jacob saw that there was corn in Egypt ...

"Corn" in England (where the KJV was translated) used to mean wheat.

16 posted on 06/04/2007 6:28:23 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: BGHater

Corn was the word the English used to use for grains. And the new world had maize, which English settlers called corn. So the “corn” in the Bible, which by the way is not the language the Bible was first written in, was not what we call corn today.


17 posted on 06/04/2007 6:28:52 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: blam
Polynesians -- And Their Chickens -- Arrived in Americas Before Columbus
(The National Geographic Version)
18 posted on 06/04/2007 6:28:54 PM PDT by blam
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To: Strategerist
The Clan Of Ina
19 posted on 06/04/2007 6:32:27 PM PDT by blam
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To: yankeedame

Drinking water - haven’t some shipwrecked people survived a long time on the flesh of fish? And nets full of green coconuts might come in handy. Anyway, if you could sail 100 miles a day (and it’s possible to sail 200) you could cross 2000 miles of ocean in three weeks. The Polynesians had some massive canoes, room for lots of coconuts. Finding the dots in the ocean is a whole other problem.

See the book The Last Navigator for some info on how the Polynesians did it.

Mrs VS


20 posted on 06/04/2007 6:39:55 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: VeritatisSplendor
See In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex by Nathaniel Philbrick. It’s the story that inspired Melville’s Moby Dick. Twenty sailors were shipwrecked in the Pacific by a whale and 93 days later only eight were alive. Still, that’s a long time under these circumstances. And considering that they’d not planned for anything, that’s an amazing testament to what can be done, especially if you don't mind what (or who) you eat.
21 posted on 06/04/2007 6:48:51 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: blam

I will buy this theory. That might mean that they were here before those that claim they arrived by the land bridge first. In other words the native Americans stole the land from the polynesians. Nah who would have thought LOL


22 posted on 06/04/2007 6:49:20 PM PDT by Shots (Loose lips sink ships)
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To: VeritatisSplendor; Coyoteman

The Chumash plank canoe, or tomolo, held up to a dozen people — and may hold a clue to pre-Columbian contact between Polynesia and the New World. (Photo courtesy Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History.)

"Scholars swim in choppy waters Did Polynesians visit Southern California many centuries ago? The evidence — some fishhooks, a boat design, and a few words in common — is limited. But to some those clues are tantalizing, even persuasive."

23 posted on 06/04/2007 6:50:06 PM PDT by blam
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To: Shots
" In other words the native Americans stole the land from the polynesians. Nah who would have thought LOL "

It's more than you think. Look Here:

Vintage Skulls

"The oldest human remains found in the Americas were recently "discovered" in the storeroom of Mexico's National Museum of Anthropology. Found in central Mexico in 1959, the five skulls were radiocarbon dated by a team of researchers from the United Kingdom and Mexico and found to be 13,000 years old. They pre-date the Clovis culture by a couple thousand years, adding to the growing evidence against the Clovis-first model for the first peopling of the Americas."

"Of additional significance is the shape of the skulls, which are described as long and narrow, very unlike those of modern Native Americans."

24 posted on 06/04/2007 6:54:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: Shots

Nope. The theory is that there was peripheral contact only 100 or 200 years before Columbus. Before that Polynesians hadn’t reached the eastern Pacific.


25 posted on 06/04/2007 6:55:49 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Offendo ergo sum)
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To: pissant
"The only ones who count are the ones who made a go of it....namely the indians."

It's not unfair to suggest that the Europeans have had a fair degree of success too.

Until we left the door open.

26 posted on 06/04/2007 6:57:45 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: muir_redwoods

I was only referring to pre-columbus days.


27 posted on 06/04/2007 7:00:21 PM PDT by pissant
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To: Strategerist

Thor was correct that such voyages were possible. He was incorrect about the direction.


28 posted on 06/04/2007 7:03:45 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sherman Logan
First Americans Were Australians
29 posted on 06/04/2007 7:03:57 PM PDT by blam
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To: elhombrelibre; wideminded
I’ve been to Queen Hatshepsut’s Temple at Dier el-Bahri several times and yes there is a mural there that includes corn and a pineapple. Both new world foods.

I’ll see if I can post the photos later.

30 posted on 06/04/2007 7:07:22 PM PDT by BGHater
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To: BGHater

The word “corn” in the Bible means “grain”, wheat etc. Look it up, it is not the corn we think of.


31 posted on 06/04/2007 7:11:38 PM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: fish hawk; BGHater
Corn and maize.
32 posted on 06/04/2007 7:16:33 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: marktwain

logical enough...

another arg is that colonization in the South Pacific accomplished 2 goals:
1. reduce conflict within the settlement.
2. reduce drain on limited resources.

I think Diamond’s “Collapse” mentions something on these lines. Either way, run for your life or voyage out to find new resources. In any event people were travelling more than we have imagined/


33 posted on 06/04/2007 7:17:16 PM PDT by Will_Zurmacht
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To: Will_Zurmacht
Just the other day, I was reading somewhere that DNA proves Aborigines were originally from Africa. And if you think about it, that’s a long haul somebody had to make long before jets. :-)
34 posted on 06/04/2007 7:20:37 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: elhombrelibre
Aborigines Came Out Of Africa, Study Shows
35 posted on 06/04/2007 7:23:49 PM PDT by blam
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To: BGHater

You see what happens when you try to interpret a book literally, that has undergone many translations.


36 posted on 06/04/2007 7:24:45 PM PDT by hunter112 (Change will happen when very good men are forced to do very bad things.)
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To: BGHater

Only in America does “corn” mean specifically maize, once called “Indian corn”.


37 posted on 06/04/2007 7:25:14 PM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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To: hunter112

please see post #30.


38 posted on 06/04/2007 7:26:39 PM PDT by BGHater
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To: BGHater
I’ll be looking for the photo. Studied a little Egyptology back in college, things don’t always look like what the archaeologists say they are.
39 posted on 06/04/2007 7:29:57 PM PDT by hunter112 (Change will happen when very good men are forced to do very bad things.)
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To: blam

Thanks,


40 posted on 06/04/2007 7:31:57 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

More info on the Hokuleia experiment.
http://www.k12.hi.us/~waianaeh/PolyVoyage/ealahoku/hokuleia/hokuleia.htm


41 posted on 06/04/2007 7:49:09 PM PDT by enots
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To: blam

I saw an article a while back, sorry no reference, about an abacus found in South America, made of native South American wood and so forth, and dated to around 1200 AD, that was basically identical to Chinese ones of the same time, in terms of style, number of rows of beads, and so on. The implication was that trading ships from China had probably made it to the west coast of South America around that time.


42 posted on 06/04/2007 7:53:25 PM PDT by omnivore
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To: omnivore
Many, many posibilities.

Transpacific Contacts?

It is written in China that 250,000 'took to the sea' at the collapse of the Shang Dynasty.

43 posted on 06/04/2007 7:57:48 PM PDT by blam
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To: omnivore
The Olmec And The Shang
44 posted on 06/04/2007 8:00:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: enots

Polynesian Navigation

45 posted on 06/04/2007 8:03:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
It is written in China that 250,000 'took to the sea' at the collapse of the Shang Dynasty.

Google "Japanese" "pottery" "Meggers" and "Ecuador" and see what you get.

46 posted on 06/04/2007 9:17:22 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman
Thanks. Got it.

"Her most crucial discovery to date is the relationship between the people of Ecuador and the people of Japan. She noticed that fragments of pottery from Japan were appearing in Ecuador, and theorized that the Japanese had traded trans-Pacifically."

47 posted on 06/04/2007 9:38:37 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

“Life boat” navigation uses a lot of the methods early islanders used as their primary navigation including wave reflection, bird and plant identification to name a few.

80’ feet at the water line, nice to be making way (just popped into my head so I typed it)


48 posted on 06/04/2007 10:05:28 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: Strategerist

“DNA studies have found no evidence South American Indians settled Polynesia thus proving Heyrdahl’s theories of the settlement of Polynesia from South America incorrect.”

Agreed. But in the bigger picture, he demonstrated the possibility of long distance ocean travel, previously not considered.


49 posted on 06/04/2007 10:42:42 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: blam

bump for later reading.


50 posted on 06/04/2007 10:57:37 PM PDT by Kevmo (Duncan Hunter just needs one Rudy G Campaign Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM)
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