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Polynesians Beat Columbus To The Americas
New Scientist ^ | 6-4-2007 | Emma Young

Posted on 06/04/2007 5:58:20 PM PDT by blam

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To: blam; TigerLikesRooster; DieHard the Hunter; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ..
Thanks Blam. To all -- two other, similar, slightly later topics made it into the catalog.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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51 posted on 06/05/2007 9:26:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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...and by a weird coincidence, Quetzalcoatl, the name of the deity or demigod who taught the Indians of Mexico about corn, translates as, “kernal sanders”.

Okay, I made that up.


52 posted on 06/05/2007 9:29:57 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: blam

Polynesian GPS? (Guidance Pickup Sticks?


53 posted on 06/05/2007 9:38:15 AM PDT by CJ Wolf
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To: blam

Now this is cool!

Hey, the question I’ve never seen addressed, which some of you might know, is when did the bow and arrow arrive? I believe the atlatl was what was being used until 600 Ad (the points are smaller than arrow points), which would give an early point for European contact.

But I might not know what I’m talking about, couldn’t find anything but tenuous references.


54 posted on 06/05/2007 9:54:37 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: ml/nj
I'm still wondering how the Polynesians made it to Hawaii. Doesn't anyone else find it odd that some men would sail out into the middle of a huge ocean in a canoe and find land 2000 miles away; and they would take women along?. What were they doing? Why would enough Polynesians set out to have any statistical chance of even finding Hawaii? Are all Hawaiians supposedly descendants of one Polynesian pair, or were there several? People who question the conventional wisdom would like to know.

A lot of the great viking explorers were essentially escaping death, having been exiled or been in a feud with some king or other. It could be the same sort of thing.

55 posted on 06/05/2007 10:03:25 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Strategerist
Interesting lesson though - because of the spectacular nature of his voyage, his flamboyance, etc. people haven't really noticed the key fact he was wrong, and some nerds in labs with DNA who aren't interesting were right.

True, but at least he showed that people in general could have travelled much farther than previously thought.

56 posted on 06/05/2007 10:04:19 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: FastCoyote
Ten Thousand Years Of The Bow And Arrow

"Science does not know just how primitive the bow and arrow is or exactly where it was first used. Beautiful Paleolithic carvings in caves at Castellon, Spain indicate that the weapon is at least 10,000 years old."

57 posted on 06/05/2007 10:25:20 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Interesting article blam, BUT I have yet to see a definitive history of the bow in the Americas.


58 posted on 06/05/2007 11:17:29 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: blam
Seems like everybody beat Columbus to America!
59 posted on 06/05/2007 11:21:11 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedicaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: blam

http://www.uiowa.edu/~osa/learn/ancient/archery.htm

That sight says 500 AD in Iowa. My point is, it was probably a European introduction, which would be a way to mark the first Atlantic transit.


60 posted on 06/05/2007 11:21:46 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

Early Polynesian.

61 posted on 06/05/2007 11:22:57 AM PDT by Silly (http://www.paulklenk.us)
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To: blam
Polynesians beat Europeans to the Americas, according to a new analysis of chicken bones

And did what with it? Europeans came here and built a civilization that, in only 500 years, transformed the planet (as well as most of its cultures) and travelled to the moon. And the Polynesians... ?

62 posted on 06/05/2007 11:26:55 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: blam

http://www.tcinternet.net/users/cbailey/lithic2.html

THE BOW AND ARROW IN MINNESOTA
As Dan Higginbottom points out, the bow and arrow was probably in Minnesota by A.D. 500 and possibly earlier, just how much earlier is hard to say. In “Guide to the Identification of Certain American Indian Projectile Point Types” (1968, Oklahoma Anthropological Society Special Bulletin No. 3, Norman), Gregory Perno had the following to say about Avonlea..

“The Avonlea point is the earliest small side-notched point appearing with large scale communal bison hunting in the northern Plains from about A.D. 220 to A.D. 660 (Dates for Avonlea have probably been modified since the 1968 publication). It is found associated with the Middle Woodland Basant dart point. It is suggested that the Avonlea point may have been of Athabascan derivation and introduced into the area when some acculturation of the indigenous Middle Woodland (Besant) people with the technologically superior Athabascan invaders apparently occurred in the first two centuries A.D. . . . The time period quoted above indicates that this may have been the earliest arrowhead type used on the northern Plains. It also indicates that the bow and arrow may have been first introduced into the United States from the north, gradually being adopted sourthward and eastward by other groups in the next 500 years.


63 posted on 06/05/2007 11:27:24 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: blam
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Prehistoric Polynesians beat Europeans to the Americas, according to a new analysis of chicken bones.

Yeah and they did SO much with it. Where's the Polynesian Empire again?

64 posted on 06/05/2007 11:31:02 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Killing all of your enemies without mercy is the only sure way of sleeping soundly at night.)
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To: Rodney King
A lot of the great viking explorers were essentially escaping death, having been exiled or been in a feud with some king or other. It could be the same sort of thing.

First the evidence that the Vikings came to North America is quite thin. It's a nice story though. Second, assuming they did reach North America, it should be pretty obvious that North America presents a rather much larger profile than do the Hawaiian Islands. I'm not sure but I think the North Atlantic surface currents might assist especially a trip originating at Greenland. I don't think there are Pacific Ocean currents which would help a Polynesian to hit Hawaii.

ML/NJ

65 posted on 06/05/2007 11:36:36 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: blam

I’m sick of this PC revisionism.


66 posted on 06/05/2007 11:36:54 AM PDT by balch3
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To: blam

From “American Samoa” therefore America discovered America and we discovered our selves. Perhaps La Raza will give Azatlan back to American Samoa!


67 posted on 06/05/2007 11:53:22 AM PDT by Sam Ketcham (Amnesty means vote dilution, & increased taxes to bring us down to the world poverty level.)
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To: balch3

How is this revisionism? This discovery adds our collective history, it doesn’t reinterpret something we already know in a PC way.


68 posted on 06/05/2007 6:06:44 PM PDT by Stag_Man (NEVER let the people draw their own conclusions. - DUmmie poster.)
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To: Otaku6

If you think that the Polynesians were “peace-loving”, I recommend a read of the wikipedia article on King Kamehameha.


69 posted on 06/05/2007 6:09:18 PM PDT by Stag_Man (NEVER let the people draw their own conclusions. - DUmmie poster.)
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To: Strategerist; blam; SunkenCiv
DNA studies have found no evidence South American Indians settled Polynesia thus proving Heyrdahl's theories of the settlement of Polynesia from South America incorrect.

From the Introduction to the book The Kon-Tiki Expedition:

The Inca Indians whom the Spanish conquistadores found in Peru told them that they had inherited the land from a race of white gods. These tall, fair skinned gods, said the Incas, were responsible for the colossal monuments scattered about the landscape. The Incas had finally defeated these people in a great battle beside Lake Titicaca, killing most of them. But a few escaped to the Pacific coast under the leadership of the sun-king Kon-Tiki. There they had vanished from the face of the earth, or at any rate from history...

I question the assumption that the survivors were South American Indians. If the race of tall, fair skinned gods was annihilated, what DNA evidence could there possibly be?

70 posted on 06/05/2007 7:04:37 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: balch3

Are you actually under the impression there was no one here before Columbus?


71 posted on 06/05/2007 9:03:11 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges

they may have been here, but they were primitive savages. Columbus brought civilization to America.


72 posted on 06/05/2007 9:14:29 PM PDT by balch3
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To: balch3

I would say so. But I don’t think te Polynesians introducing chickens suggests some sort of civilization. We brought the horses though. Earlier they had to run to deliver messages cross country.


73 posted on 06/05/2007 9:22:46 PM PDT by Borges
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To: balch3
they may have been here, but they were primitive savages. Columbus brought civilization to America.

Columbus' voyage brought barbarism to the civilizations of the Americans.

The lust for god and gold, and the murder and destruction they left behind, showed the conquistadors for the barbarians that they were.

Civilization did not arrive until a couple of centuries later.

At least the Americas were spared the Spanish Inquisition. Or is that the "civilization" you were referring to?

74 posted on 06/05/2007 9:36:57 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

Unfortunately, the Inquisition spread to the Americas too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Inquisition


75 posted on 06/05/2007 9:40:50 PM PDT by kms61
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To: Coyoteman

I see you’ve bought into the propaganda about the Spanish Inquisition. I won’t bother to give any links refuting it since you probably wouldn’t read them anyway. There are many threads about it on FR if you care to search.


76 posted on 06/05/2007 9:43:16 PM PDT by balch3
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To: kms61
Unfortunately, the Inquisition spread to the Americas too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Inquisition

Well, I guess that's just one of the "benefits" of the "civilization" we were hearing about.

77 posted on 06/05/2007 9:44:19 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: balch3
I see you’ve bought into the propaganda about the Spanish Inquisition.

I've read about the Spanish Inquisition, and more.

That, and the other Inquisitions (including the witch hunts) were some of the worst travesties ever to infest humankind.

78 posted on 06/05/2007 9:50:09 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: balch3
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/thor/balsa-raft.php

The first record of a Peruvian Balsa raft antedates the actual discovery of the Inca Empire. When Francisco Pizarro left the Panama Isthmus in 1526 on his second voyage of discovery down the Pacific coast of South America; his expedition found Peruvian merchants sailors at sea long before he discovered their country.

His Pilot was sailing ahead to explore the coast southwards near the equator, when off northern Ecuador his ship suddenly met another sailing vessel of almost equal size, coming in the opposite direction.

Native Balsa Raft Sketch by F.E. Paris (1841) showing construction of a native balsa raft from the north-west coast of South America. The maximum length of raft is 80-90 feet, maximum width of a raft is 25-30 feet with a freight capacity of 20-25 tons.

The raft was manned by 20 Indian men and women, 11 of whom were thrown overboard, four were left with the raft, and two men and three women were retained by the Spanish to be trained as interpreters for later voyages. The Spaniards estimated the raft capacity at 36 tons, only a fraction less than their own vessel.

Their report stated that it carried masts and yards of very fine wood, and cotton sails in the same shape and manner as on their own ships. It had very good rigging of hemp, stronger than their own rope, and mooring stones for anchors. Many similar accounts described rafts made of long and light logs, always of odd number, 5,7,9 or 11, tied together with cross beams and covered by a deck. The larger ones had the ability to carry up to 50 men and three horses, and had a special cooking place on board in a thatched hut. The cargoes often included salt, another proof of their seaworthiness.

These rafts are navigated simply by raising and lowering centreboards inserted in the cracks between the logs. By raising and lowering these boards in different parts of the Balsa raft, the natives could perform on their raft all the manoeuvres of a regularly built and well rigged European vessel, and obtain speeds of 4 to 5 knots. Tiny models of the rafts have been found in graves, along with carved centreboards, near Arica in northern Chile. The sail was probably know on the Peruvian coast earlier than pottery and weaving.

(So, who's the primitive savage, hmmm?)

79 posted on 06/05/2007 9:51:13 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

Shiver me timbers! Thanks Fred. Barry Fell pointed out that the first post-Columbian period voyager who discovered evidence for previous transoceanic voyages was Columbus, who was shown a coin of precious metal a Caribbean native had found while diving years before. :’)


80 posted on 06/06/2007 10:58:22 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: SunkenCiv

thanks, I had not heard of Fell, very interesting.

http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/fellview.htm

“Now the genius of Dr Fell has caused a mind-boggling change in attitude on the subject of American colonization. In his published book, America B.C., New Zealand-born Barry Fell, a marine biologist at Harvard, offered astonishing evidence that there were men and women from Europe, not merely exploring but living in North America as early as 800 B.C. This was followed by additional books in 1982, 1983, 1985 and 1989 where the dates of such colonization were pushed back to as early as 1700 B.C. (See Bronze) These early settlers worked as miners, tanners and trappers, and shipped their products back to Europe. In temples in the rugged hills of New Hampshire and Vermont (Sce Photos-1 & Photos-2) and in river valleys in Iowa and Oklahoma they sang hymns and performed sacred rituals to honor their gods. When their kings or chiefs died, they buried them beneath huge mounds of earth in which they left steles—written testimony of their grief carved on stone...”

(Lots of info on this site and the links are still alive!)


81 posted on 06/06/2007 3:29:37 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (FAIR DINKUM!)
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To: Fred Nerks

:’) Yeah, that’s the guy.


82 posted on 06/07/2007 8:16:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated May 31, 2007.)
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To: blam

I always believed that American Indians are from Polynesians, Ainus, and Aborgines. I know some Indians are similar to Celts and supposedly they came from Wales in the form of Prince Madoc.


83 posted on 06/08/2007 9:40:42 AM PDT by Ptarmigan (Bunnies=Sodomites)
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To: BGHater

Egypt also had tobacco and cocaine from America. Solomon’s mines were in both N and S America, but that was later.


84 posted on 06/08/2007 9:43:38 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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85 posted on 09/17/2009 4:58:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__Since Jan 3, 2004__Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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