Such a strong declaratory statement. You came to make this declatation because......?
Well.....????
Posted on 06/05/2007 12:23:33 PM PDT by BGHater
For almost 70 years, Scouts and Guides have savoured their place of peaceful worship under the trees.
But no longer. The woodland chapel has been demolished - its wooden pews and rudimentary cross and altar removed. In its place is a campfire circle.
The change has been imposed by the Scout Association, which believes the chapel excludes non-Christian Scouts.
Locals are dismayed, but the association says it is simply "moving forward".
The basic open-air structure in woodland surrounding Belchamps Scout Centre in Hockley, Essex, was built between the wars by volunteers.
They used old telegraph poles for pews and built a basic altar and cross. Visiting groups of Brownies, Guides,
Cubs and Scouts, have used it for generations.
Weddings have been blessed there, ashes scattered and memorial trees planted.
But in April, as the Scouting movement celebrated its centenary, it was torn down.
Former Scout leaders are outraged. Keith Rooks-Cowell, 66, led Sunday services in the outdoor chapel for more than 30 years.
The retired civil servant said: "Part of the Scout promise is to do our duty to God. It's an important tradition.
"Scouting has got no objection to any religion or faith - you should have faith, but it's not important which one.
"Anyone from any faith or any religion could go and use the chapel, it's never been a problem. The chapel was already inclusive.
"It has been wrecked. All the posts and everything had been demolished and laid flat. I was amazed and felt disgusted that this had been done."
Wendy Wilson, a bank worker and Scout leader from South-end, held religious services in the chapel for seven years. Her son Joshua, now nine, was baptised there.
She said: "It's a really special place. We all make a promise to do our duty to God, whatever God that may be.
"The chapel has never been an issue. If people didn't want to attend services, it didn't matter and they could choose to have their own ceremonies there. Nobody was made to feel excluded."
However, centre manager Nigel Ruse, 42, said: "The updating of the chapel was done to turn it into a place of worship for all faiths and not to exclude any one from Scouting.
"This is a case of taking Scouting-forward."
He said religious ceremonies could be held at the campfire circle.
But Mr Rooks-Cowell said: "A campfire is a place for sitting round singing, telling jokes and stories. The chapel was used as a quiet place for any leaders to go and sit and think. The two don't sit comfortably together.
"The campfire is not the right place for worship. All religions involves meditation and relaxation."
Last year, it was revealed that the Scout Association banned helpers from putting suncream on children unless they already had sunburn. This was to done to prevent allegations of child abuse.
I'm an Eagle Scout and except for putting together one small project for a church I wasn't even a member of, God was not mentioned or discussed except as one word in the pledge. And my troop was sponsored by a church!! I'm not going to lose it because they take down a woodland chapel. If a Christian goes there and communes with God does it matter if the 'right' structure is there? Does it make God there any less somehow if it's not there?
We're talking about something that was there less than 70 years.
Such a strong declaratory statement. You came to make this declatation because......?
Go ahead, Sonnie, keep kissing Islamofascist ass and see where it gets you.
As a wise man said, "It's time to push back the liberal hordes folks."
Very very few people, of any stripe, are my friends.
I'm not 'kissing' anyone's ass. I just want to know why not even a building is more important to you than what's in someone's heart. And you keep believing Islam is going to overrun the UK in a generation with the 'mosque on every corner'. If I were you, I wouldn't leave your neighborhood. 'They' may be outside of your neighborhood. Leaves more room on the plane for me
I enjoyed many excursions to that Camp as a Boy Scout, and it wasn't until years later that I understood that building the Camp was a sort of 'therapy' for them, after enduring six years of war.
Times may change, and fads come-and-go, but Duty and Honour are timeless, and are part of the foundation of The Boy Scouts.
This left-wing 'political-correctness' now infecting Western Civilization is wrong, and if allowed to continue unchecked, will destroy us.
Semper Fidelis and Semper Paratus, friends ............... FRegards
Why not just make the cross removable?
I’ve been to alot of “chaples” in my years in scouting- I’m having trouble remembering seeing one with a permanent fixture to any religion.
We were based in a church, but we had jewish kids. It was never an issue when the cross was displayed, and we got to go to a synagog (sp?) to learn about hebrew customs.
While it sounds like appeasment to many, I think they just got carried away with the moment, or they wanted it to be something an entir troop could do, not just two or three in a matter of minutes.
(If they wanted to specifically not offend muslims, they would have made pains to make the camfire face Mecca and provide prayer rugs. While not addressed in the article, I’d like to suggest that maybe the Scouts hadn’t even considered such actions. As with all news, we do not know the full story)
Now that there are two of us, I propose that we incorporate, solicit funds, and initiate a riot or two...
Continued state support of Stonehinge is an insult to Druidic Doubters everywhere!
Ping!
Bump!
(and all that!)
I echo you in mind, and experience.
Good post!
Isn't that sweet?
Well, Sonnie, you're going to get to find out first hand what is "in their hearts," since the subway bombings didn't seem to register with you.
Mohammed likely to top British boys' names list by year-end
Soon there WILL be a mosque on every London street corner, because you will soon be in the minority (unless you're a Muslim, which I suspect you are).
Oh they registered alright. And the reason behind them registered as well. Ever read any Sun-Tzu? Perhaps you may want to look into it.
Soon there WILL be a mosque on every London street corner, because you will soon be in the minority (unless you're a Muslim, which I suspect you are).
I don't know, there's a lot of street corners in London. But don't worry. In your fevered state, I'm sure you'll imagine every one of them with a mosque
And you can suspect till you're blue in the face. I'm the son of a Southern Baptist pastor. Born and raised SB and a strong believer in Jesus Christ. So no you're wrong again.
If non-Christians were offended by having to hold ceremonies in a chapel with a cross, why didn’t they get a bunch of people out into the woods with axes and saws and shovels and build their own chapel? Why did they have to destroy this chapel?
The Scouting movement has never been a Christian-based organization from it’s inception on. Anyone stating that it was hasn’t done their homework.
To my knowledge, Wiccans are NOT excluded from either the BSA or Scouting in general. I have heard that the BSA rejected a proposal for a Wiccan religious award. However, that was based on the issue that there is no central Wiccan authority that has the authority to do this. If you are aware of any individual or group of Wiccans that have been barred from participating in the BSA or Scouting in general, I’d like to hear about it.
I never said the scouts did not allow members of other faiths, so I’m not sure why this is directed at me. However as someone involved in scouting I can tell you you are crazy if you don’t believe it is a Christian based organization.
Check the chartering organizations of all Boy Scout troops, you’ll find a very common theme, and it sure isn’t Islam or Wicca, or anything else.
Other religions are allowed as members, as are athiests etc, but if you think the organization is not based on Christian principles, you haven’t done much scouting.
Certainly the BSA has principles that are congruent with Christian principles, but that does not make it a Christian organization. And the fact that a great many organizations that sponsor it’s units are Christian churches is hardly surprising in a country where most churches are Christian churches. Note, too, that about 40% of units are not sponsored by any kind of religious organization at all; they are sponsored by schools, businesses, VFW’s, American Legion posts, etc., etc.
I’ll have some quotes later after I get home and can pull down my older handbooks, but from it’s very inception the BSA specifically noted that America’s spiritual foundation includes Christianity, Judaism, and Native American spirituality, and that the BSA takes it’s cue from that. And Baden-Powell was initially accused by a group of Church of England clerics that he was trying to start a new religion that would substitute for Christianity, so it’s pretty clear that he wasn’t being viewed as starting a Christian organization.
Involved how? To what exent? For how long? What Dist? What Council?
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