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Vote Due On Gas-Guzzler Fees (SUV Owners To Subsidize Hybrid Owners)
Sacramento Bee ^ | Thursday, June 7, 2007 | Chris Bowman

Posted on 06/07/2007 8:43:38 AM PDT by DogByte6RER

Vote due on gas-guzzler fees

By Chris Bowman - Bee Staff Writer

Published 12:00 am PDT Thursday, June 7, 2007

Here's one way to combat global warming: Take $2,500 out of the pockets of new Hummer owners and give it to buyers of the Toyota Prius.

That's essentially the proposal set for a vote today or Friday on the Assembly floor of the California Legislature.

The same body that passed the nation's first law curbing climate-altering or "greenhouse" tailpipe exhausts is debating a system of fees and rebates to coax some of those emission cuts from new car buyers.

The bill by Assemblyman Ira Ruskin, D-Redwood City, is considered one of the top global warming bills of the session.

The measure would require buyers of gas guzzlers, which emit high levels of greenhouse gases, to pay a surcharge of up to $2,500.

The revenue would be used to reward buyers of more fuel-efficient models with rebates of up to $2,500. The measure, Assembly Bill 493, would take effect in the 2011 model year.

"This will change many people's behavior and, more importantly, change the automakers' behavior to make cleaner cars for everybody, which is what they should have been doing all along," said Dan Kalb, policy director for the Union of Concerned Scientists, a public health lobby that is sponsoring the legislation.

Of course, that's not how the automotive lobby sees it.

"This will penalize large families and the working men and women of California who depend on larger vehicles for their way of life," said Charles Territo, spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, which represents Detroit automakers and Toyota, among others.

The trade group ran a full-page ad Tuesday in The Bee, urging readers to tell their Assembly representatives to kill the bill, calling it a "car tax."

(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: algore; bigbrother; ca; california; cartax; communism; democrats; energy; environment; freemarkets; globalwarming; goresreligion; greenhousegases; hummer; hybrid; immorality; junkscience; kyoto; marxism; moralabsolutes; robinhood; socialism; suv
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This just again proves that Kalifornia is a hardcore socialist state.

Professor Walter Williams, an economics professor from George Mason Univeristy and a well known op-ed columnist, has written many times on how government screws up the free market with laws just like this one. These types of laws always have unintended consequences and ends up making life worse for everybody (except the politicians and bureaucrats.)

They can have my SUV when they pry it from my cold dead fingers!

1 posted on 06/07/2007 8:43:40 AM PDT by DogByte6RER
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2 posted on 06/07/2007 8:44:03 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER

Yes, now that the SF leftists have congress watch out. Here comes Robbin Hood and his merry men a taxing. They say they take from the rich and give to the poor, but don’t forget their on the take and their buddies get a good share of the loot.


3 posted on 06/07/2007 8:46:54 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: DogByte6RER

Just raise gas taxes there. Same effect but you’d encourage all sorts of high mileage cars, not just hybrids.


4 posted on 06/07/2007 8:47:21 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Not long before this is applead to steaks and alfalfa sprouts as well.


5 posted on 06/07/2007 8:48:03 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: DogByte6RER
Hey why do those mini-van owners always get a pass? Surely some of them get as poor mileage as my 6 cylinder truck.
6 posted on 06/07/2007 8:48:51 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: P-40

The Socialistika Republik of Kalifornia strikes again


7 posted on 06/07/2007 8:48:56 AM PDT by stm (Believe 1% of what you hear in the drive-by media and take half of that with a grain of salt)
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To: PBRSTREETGANG

“applead” = “applied”


8 posted on 06/07/2007 8:49:12 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: DogByte6RER

When this passes the politicians will be astounded when dealers in Nevada and Arizona suddenly start selling more large SUVs to Californians.

“If only this were a Federal law”, they will sternly announce.

Sound familiar?


9 posted on 06/07/2007 8:51:10 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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Here is a very recent and most excellent column by Professor Walter Williams on this EXACT topic:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56026

“The immorality of government theft”

This is a MUST READ!


10 posted on 06/07/2007 8:52:02 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER

Heh. Great graphic. Can you get that on a t-shirt anywhere?


11 posted on 06/07/2007 8:53:48 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: DogByte6RER
Here's one way to combat global warming: Take $2,500 out of the pockets of new Hummer owners and give it to buyers of the Toyota Prius.

And that's exactly what is happening at the pump, except that the leftards can't figure it out.

12 posted on 06/07/2007 8:54:24 AM PDT by white trash redneck (Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9-11-01.)
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To: Disambiguator

This sounds very familiar.

It’s creepy.

This whole thing is eerily familiar to an Ayn Rand plot from one of her novels.

“Atlas Shrugged” really comes to my mind.


13 posted on 06/07/2007 8:54:30 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: Joe Brower

It used to be sold as a t-shirt at:

http://www.thoseshirts.com/


14 posted on 06/07/2007 8:56:00 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER
This will change many people's behavior

Lets destroy what is left of California and keep electing Democrats. How much longer should we tolerate these nut cases. Since when did we elect this nitwits to be behavior police with my choice of what I want to drive.

15 posted on 06/07/2007 8:58:17 AM PDT by Logical me (Oh, well!!!)
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To: Disambiguator

won’t happen..want to bet the fee will be due when registering it the first time? that way, no matter where you bought the car, you’d owe the tax..


16 posted on 06/07/2007 8:59:58 AM PDT by GeorgiaDawg32 (Every Democrat Party cause eventually becomes a business then it degenerates into a racket.)
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To: DogByte6RER
So when more people get the tax credit from the Prius' and there is not enough revenue from the the Hummers, then what?

I'm calling it now, this thing, if passed, backfires.

17 posted on 06/07/2007 9:01:23 AM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my SUV with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: DogByte6RER

Interesting. I’m most likely going to drive my Hummer to Malibu sometime in the next few weeks with a friend to pick up a ‘Spider’ sportscar replica (James Dean’s death car two seater).

I’ll be sure to wave at the envirowackos while driving the hummer and pulling a large trailer with the other car....(chuckle)


18 posted on 06/07/2007 9:02:21 AM PDT by Badeye (You know its a kook site when they ban the word 'kook')
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

People have been registering cars out of state for years. Where there’s a will (to save $2500) there’s a way.

Of course, knowing CA, they would eventually require the “surcharge” on any large SUV registration, regardless of whether it was new or used.

You can always vote with your feet like I did.


19 posted on 06/07/2007 9:04:32 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: DogByte6RER
They want to steal from the pockets of SUV owners (eevil to liberals) to put in the pockets of Toyota Prius owners (environmentally correct saints). Wealth redistribution lives in California.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

20 posted on 06/07/2007 9:05:00 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Disambiguator

that’s what I mean..you buy the car out of state, no tax owed..but when you register it the NEXT year, they’ll check their database and THAT’S when you get hit with the tax..


21 posted on 06/07/2007 9:07:29 AM PDT by GeorgiaDawg32 (Every Democrat Party cause eventually becomes a business then it degenerates into a racket.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Doesn’t the mileage count for anything?

We have a Suburban that we put only about 5,000 miles a year on. Compare that to someone with an economy car who puts 25,000+ miles a year. Which one pollutes more?


22 posted on 06/07/2007 9:10:38 AM PDT by randita
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To: Badeye
Make sure you slap these on the bumper of your Hummer when you visit Malibu. I keep these on my H2 all the time! Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
23 posted on 06/07/2007 9:13:41 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER
Take $2,500 out of the pockets of new Hummer owners and give it to buyers of the Toyota Prius.

DANGER!!!!

Severe, radical, out-of-control and unrestrained COMMUNISM at work!!!!

24 posted on 06/07/2007 9:14:58 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: DogByte6RER
“Atlas Shrugged” really comes to my mind.

I have long claimed that she was exceptionally prescient when she wrote "Atlas Shrugged" and that it is really a blueprint for (what was then the future) what is happening inAmerica today.

We were warned!

25 posted on 06/07/2007 9:19:21 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
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To: randita

You’re right...mileage should count for everything.

I own a ‘03 H2 that I have only put 30,000 miles on.

I VANPOOL to work everyday (round trip 120+ miles.)

Now, who has the smaller “carbon footprint?”

Some tree hugger doofus who puts 40,000 miles per year on his subcompact OR me, who puts 8000 miles per year on a recreational SUV but who also vanpools to work everyday?


26 posted on 06/07/2007 9:20:17 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER
"This will penalize large families and the working men and women of California who depend on larger vehicles for their way of life," said Charles Territo, spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers

I don't think the stinking filthy idiot democrat liberals would argue with that. This is what they want, a penalty for having families that work and earn their own way through life. Illegals will probably get a waiver so they don't have to pay the "surcharge."

27 posted on 06/07/2007 9:20:18 AM PDT by subterfuge (Today, Tolerance =greatest virtue;Hypocrisy=worst character defect; Discrimination =worst atrocity)
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To: Disambiguator; GeorgiaDawg32
When this passes the politicians will be astounded when dealers in Nevada and Arizona suddenly start selling more large SUVs to Californians.

They thought of that. From the bill itself:

(a) Any California resident person who purchases a new motor vehicle outside of the state that would otherwise have been subject to an emissions surcharge shall pay the surcharge when the resident person returns to California with the vehicle within 90 days 12 months and registers or is required to register the motor vehicle.

I don't run a SUV, but do run a V-8 powered critter and can see 'extensions' if this initial bill passes...

28 posted on 06/07/2007 9:21:15 AM PDT by GoldCountryRedneck ("Why canít we start solving the problem by breaking up Big Government?"- MortMan)
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To: DogByte6RER

I’ve seen those bumper stickers. I normally don’t put stickers on my vehicles.

However, I saw one yesterday here in the forum - or it was a suggested bumper sticker I would put on the H2.

“Dear Lord, please help me be the man my dog thinks I am....” or words to that effect.


29 posted on 06/07/2007 9:21:26 AM PDT by Badeye (You know its a kook site when they ban the word 'kook')
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To: DogByte6RER

The high cost of fuel is enough of a tax for the yuppies who think they need an off-road vehicle to go to starbucks everyday. For those who need the hauling and off-road capabilities of an SUV, I understand the purchase. For 90% of SUV owners I don’t. I don’t understand spending more money to get a slower, thirster, worse handling, poorer braking, and poorer riding vehicle. It makes no sense whatsover. Home Depot rents trucks for next to nothing. Use one of those for the one time a year you buy something big.


30 posted on 06/07/2007 9:27:40 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: DogByte6RER

The law of unintended consequences will once again prevail. When congress passed the CAFE standards they exempted trucks. Trucks are used differently than passenger vehicles and things like load, towing capacity and power are significantly more important to their purpose. The result was that the family station wagon hurt the fleet average of an auto manufacturer, but the SUV (which consumed even more gas) did not, because it fell in the truck category. In other words the interference in the free market by a “do-gooder” nanny congress resulted in more not less gas consumption.

The current proposals at the federal level will further interfere with the market and are infact anti-family. If one has more than two or three children the legal options for family transportation will be limited to expensive SUV’s or perhaps a minivan that is underpowered to meet new standards. Passenger miles as opposed to vehicle miles is not even considered.

The free market will take care of itself if congress, at all levels of government, will stay out. A recent poll shows most want cars that get 40 mpg. Fine- Detroit or Korea will produce one if feasible and those that desire can purchase it. Honda has made one for decades so I guess CIVIC sales will boom. I think however the poll is a little like asking if you would like to win the lottery - a majority will answer yes -but if you were to spread the pot to everyone who wants a share their winnings would total less than the price of a ticket. Its just not feasible, even if there was a law.

America has voted - they like cup-holders, acceleration and room to haul things more than they like 40 MPG.

Only a petty dictator would limit choices, punish production and think to be god over the economy, but then we are talking about CA.


31 posted on 06/07/2007 9:32:04 AM PDT by DaveyB (Ignorance is part of the human condition - atheism makes it permanent!)
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To: Badeye

I have those exact stickers on my H2.

However, when we purchased the vehicle my wife insisted that on no bumper stickers. When I found out the real issue was that she didn’t like the mess the bumper stickers leave behind when they fade and crack, I decided to go another route.

Now, I just adhere these bumper stickers onto a soft magnetic sheet. A roll (12” x 24”) of magnetic sheeting costs about $10 at your nearest hobby/craft store.

Both the front and rear bumpers of the H2 are excellent for posting these magnetized bumper stickers onto.

Anyways...happy driving while in Malibu.


32 posted on 06/07/2007 9:39:04 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: SmoothTalker
The high cost of fuel is enough of a tax for the yuppies who think they need an off-road vehicle to go to starbucks everyday. For those who need the hauling and off-road capabilities of an SUV, I understand the purchase. For 90% of SUV owners I don’t. I don’t understand spending more money to get a slower, thirster, worse handling, poorer braking, and poorer riding vehicle. It makes no sense whatsover. Home Depot rents trucks for next to nothing. Use one of those for the one time a year you buy something big.

It is none of your frickin' business what other people buy with their money, and it is even less of the governments business.

I can't believe people with an attitude like yours would even bother to be on a conservative forum. How the hell do you know which people, or what percentage of them, actually use their vehicles for? And why the hell do you think it is any of your business anyway?

Keep the government out of our lives, vote out liberals, whether they are dems or republicans matters not, if they are liberal they need to get booted out!

33 posted on 06/07/2007 9:39:09 AM PDT by calex59
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To: DogByte6RER

‘Anyways...happy driving while in Malibu.’

Thanks. If it happens, we plan on taking the Spider up the Pacific Coast Highway, at least to Big Sur. Figure what the heck, if your already there....

I think you and I talked about this on a hummer thread a couple of weeks back. I’m still laughing at the poster declaring the H2 sucks because of what it takes to put a SNOW PLOW on the front......ROTFL!


34 posted on 06/07/2007 9:55:57 AM PDT by Badeye (You know its a kook site when they ban the word 'kook')
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To: SmoothTalker

I make no apologies for owning my SUV (a Hummer H2 at that.)

And if I want to sit in it while waiting in a Starbucks drive-thru, that is my right and I will not apologize for this either.

I use my SUV mostly as a weekend/fun vehicle. The H2 is (for me) a real pleasure to drive. I have added HP to it with a cat back exhaust and a cold air induction intake. It has lots of power, excellent handling and it is great at tight turns.

If you haven’t driven one, then you just don’t know.

Driving around in my H2 may be a guilty pleasure, but I feel NO GUILT about it.

This is America dammit. I have the right to own and purchase and drive whatever vehicle I like so long as I obey the traffic laws.

While you may not understand some people choosing to spend their money on large, slow moving, “gas guzzling” vehicles, it is their right to purchase these vehicles and they should not be impugned for doing so. After all, America is a FREE country. The phrase “pursuit of happiness” comes to mind here.

Hell...I figure that since I served six years in the U.S. Navy in the 1980s (on a destroyer escorting re-flagged Kuwaiti oil tankers out of the Persian Gulf) I have earned my right to drive around in a “gas guzzler” if I so choose.

Here are some appropriate Ayn Rand quotes to properly put this issue in context:

“The worst guilt is to accept an unearned guilt.”

“We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.”

“Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).”

“Do not ever say that the desire to “do good” by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.”


35 posted on 06/07/2007 9:59:44 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER

One of the best and simplest analogies I have ever read! Kudos!


36 posted on 06/07/2007 10:02:50 AM PDT by winner3000
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To: DogByte6RER

One of the best and simplest analogies I have ever read! Kudos!


37 posted on 06/07/2007 10:03:24 AM PDT by winner3000
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To: DogByte6RER

from each according to their ability to each according to their need...

seems the politicians are being a little more blatent about the commie beliefs.


38 posted on 06/07/2007 10:06:50 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: DogByte6RER

excellent handling”

Compared to a 1965 Buick.


39 posted on 06/07/2007 10:14:30 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: calex59

I have nothing against people buying them. They should be allowed to. People should be allowed to buy any foolish thing they want. Doesn’t mean I can’t laugh at them.


40 posted on 06/07/2007 10:15:35 AM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: DogByte6RER

I read not too long ago, can’t remember where, damnit, re: zinc batteries in hybrids. The mining and processing entailed until it ends up in a car expends more energy than driving a Hummer for thirty years.


41 posted on 06/07/2007 10:17:36 AM PDT by synbad600
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To: calex59

“It is none of your frickin’ business what other people buy with their money, and it is even less of the governments business.”

Geez, chill out already. He just said he doesn’t understand why most SUV owners have one - and to be exact, I don’t either, and think they are a stupid choice for what many people use them for. That’s just my opinion. I’m not saying the government should turn my opinions into law or anything. We are still allowed to have opinions here, aren’t we? I fully support everyone’s right to make their own choices, whether I think they are stupid ones or not.


42 posted on 06/07/2007 10:20:16 AM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: SmoothTalker

Exactly. Here’s an example of that:

Many people on this forum would think that my choice to smoke is a foolish one. They may be right. But most of them are perfectly willing to let me kill myself with cigarettes, if that’s my choice. Most are even willing to let business owners set their own policies regarding smoking, even if they find a smoky bar or restaurant repugnant. That’s conservatism - making decisions based on correct principles, even when that goes against your personal opinion, interests, or feelings.


43 posted on 06/07/2007 10:26:14 AM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: Disambiguator
When this passes the politicians will be astounded when dealers in Nevada and Arizona ...

Haven't seen the bill, but my bet is they've got that covered. California has a "Sales and Use Tax." That means that anything bought out of state and used in California is subject to tax. In the case of automobiles, it is applied when you go to license them. Surely, the bill will reach into the DMV regulations to be sure this gets applied there.

You could try to license it in Arizona or Nevada, but you'd have to fudge on your residence address, and that could lead to even more serious trouble.

44 posted on 06/07/2007 10:32:47 AM PDT by LantzALot (Yes, itís my opinion. No, itís not humble.)
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To: synbad600

“Is a Hummer cleaner than a Prius?” Link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1828450/posts

“Have You Hugged a Hummer Today?” Link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1668872/posts


45 posted on 06/07/2007 10:36:42 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER

So will the self-righteous hippies be subsidizing increased medical costs sure to result in accidents sustained while driving their sanctimonymobiles?

This versus the certainly reduced medical costs incurred by pasengers enjoying the much safer ride provided by an SUV?

Of course if they are killed dead in their tiny, tinny condescension machines, I guess that’s pretty cheap too.


46 posted on 06/07/2007 10:43:42 AM PDT by EyeGuy
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To: DogByte6RER

Why isn’t there a tax-guzzler fee?


47 posted on 06/07/2007 10:44:32 AM PDT by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008 (or Fred Thompson if he ever makes up his mind))
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To: DogByte6RER

All this will do is upset the illegal alien lobby.

It’s one thing getting 20 illegals in a Ford Explorer. Getting 20 into a Prius will be a lot tougher.


48 posted on 06/07/2007 11:01:44 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici
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To: DogByte6RER
Every Prius driver i've seen on the road had a Lead Foot!
Watch them the next time you see one and you'll see they have
worse driving habits then any hummer driver.

This cannot be legal. Damn idiots.

49 posted on 06/07/2007 11:05:38 AM PDT by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: MaxMax
I love passing up the hybrids in my H2 with these on my bumper... Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
50 posted on 06/07/2007 1:08:25 PM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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