Posted on 06/11/2007 6:38:05 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg
Despite the massive show of force authorities displayed last week when they seized the West Lebanon property of convicted tax evaders Edward and Elaine Brown, the avoidance of confrontation with the couple at their Plainfield home suggests law enforcement agencies have learned from mistakes made during earlier federal standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge, an expert who tracks militia and radical right-wing movements said.
U.S. marshals in New Hampshire appear to be pursuing tactics similar to those used in Montana in 1996, when federal agents successfully negotiated the peaceful surrender of the Montana Freeman after an 81-day standoff, said Mark Potok, director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center.
"This was the lesson of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Those two standoffs not only left a great many dead people in their wake, but also helped create the militia movement," Potok said.
The 51-day standoff in 1993 between federal agents and the Branch Davidians at their compound near Waco, Texas, ended in a fire that left 74 people dead. Four federal agents were killed in an earlier shootout with the Davidians.
In 1992, a confrontation between federal agents and white separatist Randy Weaver in northern Idaho's Ruby Ridge resulted in the deaths of one federal agent and two members of Weaver's family.
"It's very easy to see one of these situations escalate into mass killings, and that, in turn, can set off very large and dangerous political movements," said Potok, who reported on the Waco siege for USA Today and now tracks radical right and militia groups for the law center based in Montgomery, Ala.
Potok said Stephen Monier, the U.S. marshal in New Hampshire, has carefully avoided creating a standoff with the Browns while attempting to convince the couple to surrender.
"That seems like a good tactic," he said.
Potok said the dozens of armed federal and state officials who rolled into Lebanon Thursday and set up surveillance at the end of the long driveway leading to the Browns' rural home in nearby Plainfield was not an overreaction, given Edward Brown's repeated threats to use force against authorities attempting to serve the couple with arrest warrants issued at their sentencing in April.
"If you were law enforcement and you were going to approach the Browns' house, you are completely within your right to be ready for anything," Potok said. "The man has repeatedly threatened violence and he has some friends who apparently agree with him."
Monier said he had to take into account the history of the Browns' case when he executed a federal court order to enter the West Lebanon property where Elaine Brown ran her dental practice.
Ed Brown has threatened violence against law enforcement, owns weapons, and said he would die defending himself and his property, Monier said. Brown also has had a number of supporters -- some armed -- at his home.
"We needed to have some real-time information about what was going on there and who might be leaving there when we were also in Lebanon," Monier said of the surveillance teams set up at the driveway of the Browns' house Thursday morning. "We had no intention of storming the house."
Monier refused to discuss tactical details but said the overwhelming presence of state and federal officers -- which included SWAT teams, and military and explosives vehicles -- was necessary to ensure the safety of the officers and the public.
A federal jury convicted the Browns in January of plotting to hide their income and avoid federal income taxes on Elaine Brown's income of $1.9 million between 1996 and 2003. The jury found they used $215,890 in postal money orders in amounts just below the tax-reporting threshhold to pay for their residence and Elaine Brown's Lebanon dental office.
A judge sentenced the couple in abstentia to 63 months in federal prison and ordered them to forfeit the $215,890 to the federal government.
The court issued a preliminary order of forfeiture on both properties in February. This week the court issued a writ of entry on the Lebanon property only, a high-ranking official with the U.S. Attorney's office said. The official would not comment on whether an order is forthcoming to enter the Plainfield property.
The Lebanon property was secured and posted Thursday.
"It was rendered safe and there were no hazardous materials," Monier said, adding that reports of the dental office at Half Hollow Courtyard holding a network of underground tunnels and a bunker are unfounded.
"That's another of those Internet legends," Monier said, referring to the Browns' heavy reliance on the Web to get their message out.
Federal authorities now would need to obtain a final order of forfeiture from the court to take ownership of the Lebanon property and use it to satisfy the forfeiture order, the federal source said. He said he did not know if the property is sufficient to meet the $215,890 judgment.
Monier still has to serve the Browns with arrest warrants that would immediately send them to prison to begin serving their 63-month sentences.
"We've said all along that we're going to be deliberate, patient and calm in our approach to this," Monier said of his efforts to persuade the Browns to surrender peacefully.
"We have no desire to see any harm come to the Browns," he added.
Potok said this is a reasonable approach and one that has proven successful in other standoffs that lasted months and, in some cases, years. He pointed to an ongoing standoff between a Texas man and sheriff's deputies that has gone on five years.
"If this is what this means, that the Browns will be locked up inside their house for the next three years or five years . . . that's punishment all by itself," Potok said.
"The problem is that that is expensive" for law enforcement charged with monitoring these situations and executing court orders as they did Thursday, he said.
But supporting such behavior isn't Socialist or wrong in any way, of course. Only Democrats support Socialism and things that are wrong. Everyone knows that. Republicans just want people taxed by a massive collective Leviathan and hate people that don't submit to this utterly anti-capitalist, anti-market, anti-liberty scheme because, well, "that's the American way" or "the law is the law" or some other mindlessness...
WWJD? Why he'd arm himself and others with machine guns and threaten to kill harmless people for not giving his mob their time and money, of course.
Why is he "tracking" supposed right-wing groups?
Why can’t they just be treated like Illegal Aliens?
Just shut off the power, water, and internet access. Let them die of thirst and boredom in the dark.
They have their own well and generators. And you can’t cut off Net access without cutting off cellular access (which the “gubmint” won’t do for that large an area.)
Why is he "tracking" supposed right-wing groups?
SPLC is probably tracking FreeRepublic, as well. It is one of the most dangerous left-wing organizations in America.
As soon as I saw "SPLC" in the article, I stopped reading. Might as well be reading Marx himself....
- John
I want to know when we get to do a SWAT raid on that pack of Marxist, anti-American, violence-inciting loons.
Run by the pedophile Morris Dees.
Owns weapons, oh my God, will defend his property, good God in heaven, where does this guy think he is, the USA? "Comrade, comrade, comrade, don't you know this is now the USSA?" "Surrender now and we promise you a fair trail..."
The SPLC has a long history of tracking anti-government groups on the grounds they are all just secret racists.
It doesn’t hurt that tracking them seems to help them raise more money because people who aren’t convinced there is a racist conspiracy can be convinced that another Oklahoma City is just waiting to happen.
Owns weapons, oh my God, will defend his property, good God in heaven, where does this guy think he is, the USA? "Comrade, comrade, comrade, don't you know this is now the USSA?" "Surrender now and we promise you a fair trail..."
Get real. This guy’s a loon. He and his wife hid nearly $2 million in income so they wouldn’t have to pay taxes. They have been sentenced to 5+ years in prison, and they’ve threatened anyone who tries to come arrest them. They’re blaming the whole thing on some Free Mason conspiracy.
These folks are nuts. Trying to argue that the government can’t use force to arrest them just increases the likelihood of more nuts arming themselves and saying you can’t arrest them to serve the prison time they justly deserve.
Exactly.
You most certainly can.
Shutting off a single Net user and/or cell phone is a piece of cake. All it would take is a court order to the providers. Technically speaking, it's simple.
They already had a fair trial. They were found guilty, and sentences to over 60 months in prison.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes,..
They must have been a bunch of commies. /sarcasm
My mistake. I misspoke earlier. Meant to say ALLEGED pedophile.
Google him yourself for more information.
There is a lot of neo-nazi nonsense out there but there are also serious allegations of that charge by his family.
Would appreciate it if someone with access to Nexus-Lexus or another legal search site could come up with the court documents in the case.
Duuhhhh.
It’s LexisNexis.
Musta been thinking about my next car.
What? I've never heard of this.
My mistake—I looked into it and if you can cut off a single EID number, then it is easy enough.
OK, come on, how can we say the law is the law for illegal immigrants, but not for people who don’t want to pay their taxes, which last time I checked the federal government had the Constitutional mandate to levy. If you don’t like taxes, write your congressman, but don’t break the law, and then threaten to shoot the police when they come to arrest you, because otherwise you’re a common criminal, and no better than a drug dealer who shoots at police for coming to shut down the grow-op on his property.
Bully!
They didn't really hide anything. They just didn't give their money to the thief demanding it. I wouldn't do it because I don't want to get shot by the mugger, but I don't blame the victim for the mugger's evil action.
Appealing to the law to say we don't have to pay taxes is stupid and pointless. Even if the Constitution and laws said nothing about paying taxes, we would still have to pay taxes because we are governed by armed human beings... not pieces of paper. Build a bigger army and police force than the FedGov has and you will never have to pay it another dime, whatever the Constitution says.
This said, I personally couldn't care less about what the Constitution says. It is a piece of paper written up a few centuries ago by a few men that got some things right and some things seriously wrong.
I never say "the law is the law". It's not an argument, just an appeal to violent force.
If you don’t like taxes, write your congressman, but don’t break the law, and then threaten to shoot the police when they come to arrest you, because otherwise you’re a common criminal, and no better than a drug dealer who shoots at police for coming to shut down the grow-op on his property.
If a gang sent men to your home telling you to pay them money, would you write to their leader asking him to not do that?
The Browns definitely have some crazy views. But that doesn't mean they should be killed.
Yes, they are breaking the tax laws. That harms no one and arguably does a lot less harm than paying taxes does.
The Founding Fathers mostly got it wrong. The Constitution (revered as the greatest model of government ever) is nothing. So it sounds like you are just an anarchist.
So what the hell are you doing here? Should'nt you be living in the wild (maybe a cave) ala Lord of Flies?
Some men show up on your front lawn. They have a mob of people they've brought with them to whom they've promised a share of the loot they want to take from you. Before they take your stuff, they say they will let you come out and vote with the rest of the mob about whether or not your stuff should be taken and redistributed. Vote or not, but the "will of the people" will be respected they tell you.
You lose the vote. But then you still don't want to give your stuff to the mob. They want to avoid violence if they can since that is somewhat costly for them (not because they are noble people, of course), so they let you appeal to an employee of theirs. If their employee judges that you should hand over your stuff, then they will return to demanding that you hand over your stuff. (If he doesn't, well, they might let you go, but they'll definitely fix this for the next front lawn they visit.) If you don't hand over your stuff after all this, they will attack you or lay siege to you.
Would you have any problem or objection with what these men are doing or are their actions perfectly moral, productive, etc.?
I didn't say this.
The Constitution (revered as the greatest model of government ever) is nothing.
I didn't say this.
So it sounds like you are just an anarchist.
My beliefs regarding the state are probably best labeled anarcho-capitalist. But I'm a cultural conservative, Calvinist Christian, etc., as well. On most things in life, I probably agree with most here much more often than I disagree.
So what the hell are you doing here?
Just interested in a good discussion.
Essentially correct. The court said it was a political problem and will not act on it because of the length of time the legislation has been in force . . . and the states say it's a legal problem that should have been resolved by the supreme court at the time it was being disputed. Ping Pong anyone?
Carolyn
Does that mean you don't care about certain things like the first and second amendments? What kind of place would you rather live in?
Gee, it seems like you DID say essentially that the Constitution was/is nothing.
You say you're a Calvinist Christian but don't realize how incompatible an anarchist mindset is that. God is a God of order. Look at the Old Testement. God always ordained some form of governmental order/authority. Otherwise, you have chaos.
I care about an individual's right to speak, defend himself, assemble with others, worship as he chooses, etc. I just don't care about the Constitution.
What kind of place would you rather live in?
The US has prospered largely because it has had one of the least restrictive governments in the world for a few centuries. I'd like to live in a place that has an even less restrictive government though. And many of the highly destructive, unnecessary restrictions our government has in place are Constitutionally supported.
1) God gives us Biblical examples of where he ordained the state for evil (Herod, Pilate, Pharaoh, etc.). Does that mean you would have been justified in doing the evil they commanded? Of course not.
2) Neither the US government nor any other current form of the state has the same divine mandate that the theocracy of Old Testament Israel had.
Otherwise, you have chaos.
The state may be more ordered (this is debatable) than the free market, but it greatly exacerbates man's ability to cause death and destruction.
Here's a Calvinist defense of anarcho-capitalism. You might not agree with it, but I think you'll find it contains some ideas you might not have considered before. (I used to be a conservative Republican myself, fwiw.)
You are saying that their house should be attacked by squads of men with machine guns. Not much difference.
But when the police come to lock you in jail after you've been lawfully sentenced and you shoot at them, I have no problem with them shooting back. These two have been sentenced to jail by a lawful court after being convicted. I'm not going to show much sympathy to folks who lock themselves up after that, arm themselves, and threaten to kill people.
Why are you so intent on taking people's time and money for your collective?
So it's OK to pick and choose the laws we follow?
Do you ever drive over the speed limit, jaywalk, etc.? If so, you tell me.
I've traveled all over Cuba. Their government is even more evil than ours. That doesn't make what ours does right. Just less evil than theirs. Which isn't saying much.
One mugger wants to steal $500 from you. The other demands only $400.
Lesson should be that when the Federal Government has some questions, answer them. Don’t go and kill yourself especially like wackos did in Waco!
You’re really blind here. God has always ordained governments to maintain order. Paul tells us in Romans that governments are ordained of God to maintain order. I’ll trust the New Testement’s foremost theologian on this one.
And those American Revolution wackos. Should have just paid the taxes and answered the questions.
So then you can't condemn what any government does.
Different situation. How can you compare patriots to treasonous people? I would not do that.
Just more moral equivalence. Revolting since you’re taxed without representation must be the same thing as threatening to murder police because you failed to pay taxes enacted by your elected representatives.
Just directly answering your statements and questions.
that's full fledged "he who has the most guns gets away with anything" mentality
What do you think statism is?
You're kidding, right? Our "collective"?
Well...
We pay taxes to support programs we like and programs we don't like.
Exactly. Collectivism.
You seem to think it's OK to not pay taxes.
I pay my taxes because I believe we're Biblically commanded to do so much as we're commanded to give to the thief. Repay evil with good. We're never commanded to actually be the thief or Caesar though. (I also pay, just as you and everyone else does, because I'd be attacked by some other men if I didn't.)
If everyone thought that way, we'd have no government at all.
I'm not opposed to contractual, non-statist government (such as that of many social clubs, businesses, churches, etc.).
I do, but I accept the consequences when I do it.
So then you believe it is OK to "pick and choose which laws we follow."
Do you condemn the American revolutionaries for disobeying the laws of their government? (Many of their neighbors did as well.)
You seem to think these folks can ignore the law AND the consequences.
The consequences are violent men attacking them. I'm opposed to that. I'm not stupid though... I realize such men will attack if they don't get what they want. Yes, if you disobey the Mafia boss, you will pay the consequences. That doesn't mean you or I have to support the Mafia boss's actions.
These are people who have armed themselves and threatened to murder people who try to put them in jail where they belong.
They haven't threatened to "murder" anyone. They've said they will defend themselves from armed men attacking them in their home. Don't attack them in their house, and you won't get shot.
I have no interest in discussing anything else with someone who believes that our government is just a tad less evil than Cuba's. That kind of moral equivalence tends to make my eyes bleed.
Maybe you should step back for a second and take a look at what the moral relativism of comparing our government with Cuba's is leading you to support being done by your government. Yeah, Cuba's government is hideous. Why? Because men there go even farther in violently coercing others so as to get what they want than even the men of the US government do. That doesn't make it right for you to support the violent coercion of people here though.
Do you believe Venezuela's government is evil? Substitute it for Cuba's if you'd like a democracy. On what grounds do you object to what Chavez, a democratically elected leader, does?
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