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Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill [White House Spokesman Responds: Post #53]
Free Republic ^ | 6-13-2007 | philman_36

Posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:12 AM PDT by philman_36

This morning on Fox and Friends there was made mention that much stricter fines are in the immigration reform bill. While this is true many folks may not know about a few words that follow the language about the tougher fines. Those words make a travesty of any "fines" as they can be waved and the employer could walk away owing nothing in penalties.

Here are the words I've got a problem with...

(D) The Secretary is authorized to reduce or mitigate penalties imposed upon employers, based upon factors including, but not limited to, the employer's hiring volume, compliance history, good-faith implementation of a compliance program, participation in temporary worker program, and voluntary disclosure of violations of this subsection to the Secretary.

So while we're being told that "the penalties are tougher" we aren't being told that under some circumstances employers can face reduced or even no fine whatsoever.
At this point of time in our history America can't afford our officials not being completely truthful to us and not stating that the possibility exists for employers to potentially be let off the hook completely is simply unacceptable.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; amnestytroll; beggingforamnesty; blowbackfordubya; deafrino; duncanhunter; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; judicialbypass; nicholasthompson; noamnestyforillegals; nthompsonwhitehouse; sellouts; vampirebill; wontgetfooledagain
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Some more of the same old same old
1 posted on 06/13/2007 6:57:15 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
under some circumstances

Under ALL circumstances.
2 posted on 06/13/2007 6:58:53 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU ARE A SOCIALIST WITH NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.)
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To: tarheelswamprat; joanie-f; B4Ranch; philman_36; Czar; angkor; bill1952; FastCoyote; Cobra64; ...

Comments or corrections requested.


3 posted on 06/13/2007 7:01:16 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

Mushroom governance. Keep the sheeple in the dark and feed ‘em $#!t.


4 posted on 06/13/2007 7:01:36 AM PDT by Roccus (People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient....then repent.)
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To: philman_36
If this thing ever went through, who in this country is dumb enough to believe these "good, hard-working people," in our politically correct climate, would be expected to pay one red cent?

Anyone, anyone?

5 posted on 06/13/2007 7:02:13 AM PDT by truthkeeper (It's the borders, stupid.)
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To: philman_36

Anything other than deporting those here illegally is called AMNESTY, no matter how much you have your spin machine cycle it.


6 posted on 06/13/2007 7:03:59 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy, Romney & McCain = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party - Duncan Hunter, President 2008)
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To: Roccus
Keep the sheeple in the dark and feed ‘em $#!t.

Just more boob bait for Bubba.

7 posted on 06/13/2007 7:04:36 AM PDT by truthkeeper (It's the borders, stupid.)
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To: snowrip
Under ALL circumstances.
There is always that possibility.
8 posted on 06/13/2007 7:07:29 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Roccus
Mushroom governance. Keep the sheeple in the dark and feed ‘em $#!t.
And not even any salt to season it with.
9 posted on 06/13/2007 7:08:55 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: truthkeeper
...who in this country is dumb enough to believe these "good, hard-working people," in our politically correct climate, would be expected to pay one red cent?
Here's a whole bunch of 'em.

10 posted on 06/13/2007 7:12:44 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: RasterMaster
...no matter how much you have your spin machine cycle it.

11 posted on 06/13/2007 7:21:45 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

right now even a 10 year excludability can be reduced upon application and showing cause.

(it keeps immigration lawyers busy)

For example an person excluded for 10 years may be able to get a waiver for the excludability because they petition for an investor visa.

IOW you are going to generate about 300k worth of business in the USA.

(IOW the immigration lawyer helps set up a sham corporation which does some amount of business and on paper is real but in reality is just a flea market tshirt shop which has no net profit but exists until the green card arrives.)


12 posted on 06/13/2007 7:27:30 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: philman_36

The Bill was written by enemies of the American citizens so why would we expect there to be enforcable penalties for their “troops”?

Two questions:

What percentage of these “troops” do you think will go through the trouble of learning English and paying a $5000 fine to become an American citizen?

What advantage is there for them to be an American citizen?


13 posted on 06/13/2007 7:36:08 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," two terms, and they're out.)
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To: philman_36

What does it matter? What makes anyone think that these laws would be enforced with any more diligence than any of the current immigration-related laws?


14 posted on 06/13/2007 7:39:30 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: B4Ranch

You are correct about them being “troops”.

They are the troops, the roving enforcers, for all the wonderful changes that GWB, McCain, Kennedy, and Dodd have in store for us...


15 posted on 06/13/2007 7:41:49 AM PDT by oblomov
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To: philman_36

and worse in that picture is BOTH of mine are on the far right. And the answers to my calls and emails are farcical.


16 posted on 06/13/2007 7:45:30 AM PDT by doodad
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To: philman_36
Comment: This bill is a joke on the American people. If passed it can’t be enforced. It gives away citizenship to people that have broken our law. It can be used to gain legal status instantly. We all will pay the bill in the end.
17 posted on 06/13/2007 7:46:50 AM PDT by ANGGAPO (LayteGulfBeachClub)
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To: B4Ranch
What percentage of these “troops” do you think will go through the trouble of learning English and paying a $5000 fine to become an American citizen?
.0001%.
The vast majority won't because they don't want to become citizens anyway. There is no fear of capture or deportation because if it was going to happen it would've been happening consistently for the past dozen or more years. So few have been returned to Mexico with an "I got busted crossing the border" t-shirt that everyone thinks they won't even be looked for...and proportionally they're right.

What advantage is there for them to be an American citizen?
Since they get almost everything that citizens get now, and sometimes even more, there is none. Better to stay below the radar and weather out this latest squall.

18 posted on 06/13/2007 7:50:57 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: LIConFem

Trent Lott is quoted DIRECTLY in another thread stating the enforce first amendmetns would be made meaningless in the conference committee.

IOW if these amendments are passed, the fix is in to scrub them.


19 posted on 06/13/2007 7:56:57 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: philman_36; saveliberty
Comments or corrections requested.

Excellent post, and a critical piece of information which needs to be brought to the attention of the American people at every opportunity.

20 posted on 06/13/2007 7:58:06 AM PDT by tarheelswamprat
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To: LIConFem
I'm going to take these out of turn...
What makes anyone think that these laws would be enforced with any more diligence than any of the current immigration-related laws?
Exactly. Nobody does.

What does it matter?
Evidently the programs and packages in the bill are where the real desire is. If it all passes without too much scrutiny then we're stuck with them. So much has been pushed through riding under good intentions it isn't funny.
It's like the minimum wage increase. That wasn't a stand alone bill, it got pushed in with a war appropriations bill. Who is going to vote against a war appropriations bill no matter what else is in there? They would be labeled as "not supporting the troops".
Sometimes, in fact many times, our Congressmen/women don't even know what they're passing because they aren't even reading the bills before them!

21 posted on 06/13/2007 8:00:41 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: doodad
and worse in that picture is BOTH of mine are on the far right.
You have my sympathies.

And the answers to my calls and emails are farcical.
Ah, the old canned responses. Been there...

22 posted on 06/13/2007 8:03:12 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: ANGGAPO
This bill is a joke on the American people.
The "paper bag on the porch on fire" kind of joke.
23 posted on 06/13/2007 8:06:15 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: longtermmemmory
Trent Lott is quoted DIRECTLY in another thread stating the enforce first amendmetns would be made meaningless in the conference committee.

I'll just link that in case anyone is interested...
Bush lobbies Senate on immigration (Lott's Outrageous Comment)

24 posted on 06/13/2007 8:08:16 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

So for a $2,000 campaign contribution you can get $100,000 in fines waived.... Not a bad investment.

Crooks.


25 posted on 06/13/2007 8:10:05 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (Fred 2008)
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To: philman_36
Penalty Mitigation in the Immigration Reform Bill

This is why "the vampire bill" needs to have a stake driven
through it's chest.

I suspect that once "comprehensive immigration reform" is passed...
anything that La Raza, Reid, Dubya, Lott, Brownback and their minions
don't like will get hamstrung and/or excised from the bill
by some court/judge.
26 posted on 06/13/2007 8:10:42 AM PDT by VOA
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To: NeoCaveman
So for a $2,000 campaign contribution you can get $100,000 in fines waived.... Not a bad investment.
It's so easy to figure out even a caveman can do it! LOL
27 posted on 06/13/2007 8:11:48 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
It's so easy to figure out even a caveman can do it!

Hairbacks?

28 posted on 06/13/2007 8:20:56 AM PDT by hunter112 (Change will happen when very good men are forced to do very bad things.)
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To: VOA
If you view this as "the vampire bill" then what monster comes to mind with the thought of an activist judge getting a hold of the ensuing court cases that will inevitably arise?
The Living Dead perhaps?

(their minions...The Living Dead)
29 posted on 06/13/2007 8:21:36 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: hunter112; NeoCaveman
It's so easy to figure out even a caveman can do it!
Check out the screen name of who that response is to.
30 posted on 06/13/2007 8:23:17 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: tarheelswamprat
Excellent post, and a critical piece of information which needs to be brought to the attention of the American people at every opportunity.
I'm still worried too few will get it and it won't get any/enough coverage despite how important it is.
31 posted on 06/13/2007 8:28:46 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
The Living Dead perhaps?

Yep. Ghouls walking around with nothing better to do than
consume the substance (tax money) of vital citizens.

I do think "vampire bill" does the current legislative fight justice
as all the Amnesty activists will push and push and push until
they win or their employees in the Senate and House get spanked.
32 posted on 06/13/2007 8:29:54 AM PDT by VOA
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To: philman_36

That is exactly the way I see it.

When I look around, we have traitors in Washington and unfortunately noone is going to put them on trial. Us voters seem to think that elections are enough of a trial and we can’t be bothered with going thru the time and expense of rounding up the signatures for a recall.

We have the ignorant voter who knows diddly squat about this imigration bill and could care less because they only vote in presidential elections if at all.

Then there is the American who doesn’t care who’s in office as long as him and the wife have decent paying jobs and the kids aren’t mugged on their way to public school.

We elect politicians who seem to consistently be about 180 days behind what’s posted on FR. In some cases 640 days but they’ll sign any bill placed in front of them as long as their favorite lobbyist doesn’t object.

These are the ignorant buggers who are schocked right out of their underwear when the people start calling his office and demanding that he withdraw his support for a bill. Then he has to back out of the deals he’s already made with the lobbyists for contributions.

This idea of ‘elected for life’ needs to be vigorously opposed by the voters if we are going to have any chance at all of saving America.

DRIP = “Don’t Return Incumbent Politicians,” – two terms, and they’re out.

The first term they make friends and learn how to get a bill passed. The second term they can actually write some bills that will help us and then get out of DC.


33 posted on 06/13/2007 8:36:57 AM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," two terms, and they're out.)
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To: tarheelswamprat

Prior version of Title III, which was supposed to impose a fine of $25K per illegal up to $75K per and an additional $1K plus the risk of criminal charges.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/7c7decff-7cb5-42ab-925b-0a2b3df05ff4

This may be moot as I’d read that R’s who are not Trent Lott are demanding more enforcement in any subsequent bill.


34 posted on 06/13/2007 8:47:31 AM PDT by saveliberty (Prayer blizzard for Tony and Jill Snow and their family.)
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To: Roccus
Mushroom governance. Keep the sheeple in the dark and feed ‘em $#!t.

Bears repeating over and over.

35 posted on 06/13/2007 8:49:29 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: philman_36
They lie to us. Every one knows illegals are never going to pay fines, penalties or taxes so why bring it up? They going to get special treatment so they telling us they'll now obey the law is an insult. The pro-amnesty advocates don't even have the guts to look up in the face and tell us the forgiveness is absolute.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

36 posted on 06/13/2007 8:50:02 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: B4Ranch
That is exactly the way I see it.
Too bad our blind political "leaders" don't.

We elect politicians who seem to consistently be about 180 days behind what’s posted on FR.
That has got to infuriate them.

This idea of ‘elected for life’ needs to be vigorously opposed by the voters if we are going to have any chance at all of saving America.
LOL...Does the name Jack Brooks ring a bell?

37 posted on 06/13/2007 8:58:09 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: saveliberty
It doesn't matter what the fines are if they can be mitigated, does it? It makes fines pointless!
38 posted on 06/13/2007 9:00:10 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: goldstategop
They lie to us.
Now come on, give 'em a little credit. They obfuscate, not lie.
It's easy to catch them in an outright lie so they travel the less beaten path of obfuscation.
39 posted on 06/13/2007 9:05:19 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

Right, but the bill is gone. It’s up to Ted Kennedy to figure out how much he wants a deal, Lott or not Lott.


40 posted on 06/13/2007 9:14:10 AM PDT by saveliberty (Prayer blizzard for Tony and Jill Snow and their family.)
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To: B4Ranch
What advantage is there for them to be an American citizen?

Well, for one thing if they return to Mexico permanently at some later date (say for retirement), they get to pay U.S. federal taxes on all global income for the next 10 years. Even if not one penny of that income is from the U.S.

That's an advantage, yes?

/sarc

41 posted on 06/13/2007 12:02:16 PM PDT by angkor
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To: mysterio; jmc813
$10k fine per illegal worker per day. Enforcement will pay for itself, all offenders will be out of business, and the flood across the border will stop. A one sentence long immigration reform bill. You’re welcome.
Sorry to drag a conversation across threads, but I found your comments interesting and would like to know what you think of the penalty mitigation mentioned in the proposed bill.
42 posted on 06/13/2007 12:36:45 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36

It’s in the proposed bill so they can appear tough when they aren’t actually going to enforce anything.


43 posted on 06/13/2007 1:11:35 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: philman_36
The lipstick didn't work so now they're trying to perfume this pig.

No sale.

44 posted on 06/13/2007 1:12:11 PM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: RasterMaster
Anything other than deporting those here illegally is called AMNESTY, no matter how much you have your spin machine cycle it.

Ditto

And not deporting them is not upholding the "rule of law." It seems that's become an empty phrase. Furthermore, not upholding the rule of law and not deporting them is condoning, and encouraging, further illegal aliens to break our laws.

With all the friggin' lawyers in this country, I can't believe there's no class action suit against the Federal government. Some lawyer could make a ton of money.

45 posted on 06/13/2007 4:05:21 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: philman_36; tarheelswamprat; joanie-f; B4Ranch; Czar; angkor; bill1952; FastCoyote; Cobra64
You’ve stumbled upon yet another patronizing lie – and this bill is overflowing with them – the most glaring being ‘temporary’ (but renewable for life) z-visas, immigrants fines (which only apply if the criminal desires citizenship), and these newly-penned employer fines (whose description contains loopholes through which we could drive an entire fleet of Mack trucks).

The American people have raised a deafening cry of ‘foul play!’ regarding this bill. So the bill’s supporters, our formerly esteemed president chief among them, are resorting to doing what they do best. They are using a carefully-crafted combination of semantics and outright lies in an effort to quell the revolt.

The problem for them this time (hopefully) may be that those who are up in arms about this travesty tend to be those who do not receive their information from the mainstream media (‘fair and balanced’ FoxNews included – FoxNews may well be ‘fair and balanced’ in the coverage within a particularly story, but they are nearly as guilty as the rest of the propaganda disseminators of neglecting to cover in-depth stories that cry out for attention, while focusing on Paris-Hilton-like bread and circuses. A pox on them all.)

So, whether the president’s and senate’s disingenuousness (yes, I’m being kind) plays out as they hope is yet to be seen.

But, if you’re taking bets on whether some form of this amnesty/end-of-the-republic-as-we-knew-it bill eventually becomes law, I’m betting 1/2 that it eventually passes the senate, and 3/1 that it eventually passes the house.

At which point we may as well lay out the welcome mat for the eventual end of republican government, and the eventual entrenchment of complete socialist/elitist rule, with the average white, middle-class, hard-working American assuming minority status (God help us then), and the end of the American experiment in the supremacy of individual freedom.

~ joanie

46 posted on 06/13/2007 4:08:31 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f
"At which point we may as well lay out the welcome mat for the eventual end of republican government, and the eventual entrenchment of complete socialist/elitist rule, with the average white, middle-class, hard-working American assuming minority status (God help us then), and the end of the American experiment in the supremacy of individual freedom."

I know you recall that wonderful Claire Wolf quote. Do you think it's still "too early to shoot the bastards"? No response expected (I can guess)...

47 posted on 06/13/2007 4:28:25 PM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: joanie-f
(yes, I’m being kind)

Young lady, now is not the time to be kind!

48 posted on 06/13/2007 5:01:47 PM PDT by B4Ranch (DRIP = "Don't Return Incumbent Politicians," – two terms, and they're out.)
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To: joanie-f
You’ve stumbled upon yet another patronizing lie...
LOL I hope you caught my sarcasm at #39.

...those who do not receive their information from the mainstream media...
I listen to catch them in their "obfuscation" and there's plenty of it these days.
Thanks for the reply.
A whole 492 views...Oh, I really got the word out. Paul Revere would be highly disappointed.

49 posted on 06/13/2007 7:59:21 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
A whole 492 views...Oh, I really got the word out. Paul Revere would be highly disappointed.

On the contrary. John Hancock and Samuel Adams heard Revere's call. The rest are pretty much incidental.

It's not the quantity that matters. It's the quality of the message, and what those who hear it do with its contents. Believe me, the ripple effect is alive and well. Revere would be proud.

PaulRevere.jpg

~ joanie

50 posted on 06/13/2007 8:14:16 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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