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Why The Gun In Civilization? - Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) "An armed society is a polite society."
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/ccw/37877-why-gun-civilization.html ^ | Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Posted on 06/14/2007 9:11:34 AM PDT by InfantryMarine

Edited on 06/18/2007 4:54:56 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Why The Gun In Civilization?

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.

If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

See reply #27 for an update on the source of this article


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: banglist

1 posted on 06/14/2007 9:11:38 AM PDT by InfantryMarine
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To: InfantryMarine

Awesome inescapable logic.


2 posted on 06/14/2007 9:16:09 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: InfantryMarine

Good essay, Marine. But you know the blissninnies will see it as a paradoxical excuse for violence (shudder) that they think they can hide from, right?
S/F
TC


3 posted on 06/14/2007 9:16:10 AM PDT by Pentagon Leatherneck
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To: InfantryMarine

Excellent article. He persuaded me, and he didn’t need to use force to do it.


4 posted on 06/14/2007 9:16:33 AM PDT by hsalaw
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To: InfantryMarine

Well stated. The logic is undeniable, even though the paranoid socialists still seek ways to disarm America for the very reason that the Second Amendment was created...


5 posted on 06/14/2007 9:19:11 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: InfantryMarine
Why The Gun In Civilization?

Uhhhh...because the uncivilized guys had swords?

6 posted on 06/14/2007 9:19:44 AM PDT by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: InfantryMarine; TheMom

Very good. Short and sweet.


7 posted on 06/14/2007 9:23:46 AM PDT by Eaker (Free The Texas 3 - Ramos, Compean and Hernandez)
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To: InfantryMarine

-b-


8 posted on 06/14/2007 9:24:59 AM PDT by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: tcostell

Awesome inescapable logic.

Deserves repeating


9 posted on 06/14/2007 9:32:19 AM PDT by wastedyears (Check my profile for links to anti-illegal immigration T-shirts.)
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To: Pentagon Leatherneck

“blissninnies”

Outstanding!


10 posted on 06/14/2007 9:34:58 AM PDT by sig226 (Where did my tag line go?)
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To: InfantryMarine
"Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force."

I have to disagree. The Major left out the third way, irrational/emotional appeal.

11 posted on 06/14/2007 9:43:52 AM PDT by Agent Smith (Fallujah delenda est. (I wish))
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To: tcostell

“Awesome inescapable logic.”

Not to the hoplophobes or authoritarians in our society.


12 posted on 06/14/2007 9:45:03 AM PDT by dljordan
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To: InfantryMarine
A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Excellent article.

Hmm. I wonder if I can sue someone who mugs me under Anti-Trust laws...

13 posted on 06/14/2007 9:46:25 AM PDT by Egon ("If all your friends were named Cliff, would you jump off them??" - Hugh Neutron)
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To: InfantryMarine
BRAVO!

I have often tried to explain the change in behavior with regards to responsible armed citizens. It changed my behavior and attitude unknowingly. It took a year for me to notice. But I have never been able to explain it with such eloquence as is stated above.

Prior to CCW, I was prone to be more aggressive when threatened, out of fear. My attitude was to get the upperhand ASAP if there was an imminent threat in order to survive long enough to escape. In fact, a self defense course I observed long ago was teaching women to attack viciously at the eyeballs and groin if they feared for their lives. To act aggressively immediately and as soon as the attacker was on defense, make a run for it.

With a concealed weapon, I have an alternative because I know that the odds are at least even and likely tilted in my favor. I have many more options.

I tend to be ok with behaving like a sissy to avoid confrontation or escalation as long as I am armed. I think it is because I ma confident and feel less threatened. I am very humble and polite when confrontation arises these days.

14 posted on 06/14/2007 9:54:38 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (No to nitwit jesters with a predisposition of self importance and unqualified political opinions!)
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To: TigersEye

ping


15 posted on 06/14/2007 9:55:01 AM PDT by pandoraou812 ( zero tolerance to the will of Allah ...... dilligaf? with an efg.....)
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To: InfantryMarine

This article is just one of the reasons why there are some in society that would like to deep freeze all Marines and only thaw them during wartime....

Heck, they have already started it with Ted Williams....


16 posted on 06/14/2007 10:10:35 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Agent Smith
The Major left out the third way, irrational/emotional appeal.

But that passes for reason among liberals.

17 posted on 06/14/2007 10:11:46 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: All

Reason and force. It is helpful to repeat words attributed to Thomas Jefferson. “Government is not about reason. Government is about force.”


18 posted on 06/14/2007 10:22:18 AM PDT by DPMD (dpmd)
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To: Agent Smith

The Major left out the third way, irrational/emotional appeal.

That's persuasion. I agree that irrationality is often used to apply to emotional appeal. It is also true that to act based on ones emotions rather than reason is irrational. Actions based on reason are rational. Appeal to emotion is an attempt to manipulate people to act on their emotions rather than reason. But because a person acts with consent then it is still persuasion. 

That they don't know they're being manipulated via their mysticism does not relinquish them from being responsible (held accountable) for their actions. Heck, most people aren't aware of mysticism. If they were, they'd eliminate it. Neither the irrational persuader or the person being manipulated can be divorced from their chosen actions.

They both acted with irrationality. One acted out of ignorance and the persuader acted with intent. Intent to circumvent the reason of person he wants to manipulate. It is in this process that the persuader chooses to turn against himself (acting irrationally) by manipulating his victim to act on irrationality (act on emotions) rather than reason. The persuader is the lesser person and tries to bring down the better person to act irrationally.

It's a mainstay of politicians, bureaucrats and other parasitical elites.

19 posted on 06/14/2007 10:42:46 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: InfantryMarine; y'all
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion.
Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, -

Great essay Marine. Are you the author?

However, you will find that many here, while they agree with you [and I] about our unalienable right to carry arms, - will disagree with the Constitutional [and libertarian] non- aggression principle, - usually stated as "do not initiate force or fraud, or "if it harms none, do what you will, or "treat others as you'd like to be treated, or " live and let live. "

This disconnect in logic is one of the major puzzles of conservative thinking.

20 posted on 06/14/2007 10:51:14 AM PDT by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: InfantryMarine
Why The Gun In Civilization?

The same logic applies to nations as well.

"SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM." (If you wish for peace, prepare for war)

If you doubt this or lack the power to accept it, or it offends your idea of the way things "ought" to be, even for a moment, you do not even deserve freedom and you are not worthy of peace.

21 posted on 06/14/2007 11:35:34 AM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: InfantryMarine

OUT F***ing STANDING, Marine. The Major is spot on!!! Thanks for this!


22 posted on 06/14/2007 12:26:12 PM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: tpaine

Great essay Marine. Are you the author?

Negative ... I ain’t THAT smart!

lol!


23 posted on 06/14/2007 4:18:35 PM PDT by InfantryMarine
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To: InfantryMarine

“God created man, Sam Colt made them equal”


24 posted on 06/14/2007 4:23:40 PM PDT by Plains Drifter (If guns kill people, wouldn't there be a lot of dead people at gun shows?)
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To: InfantryMarine
“If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it. “
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can think of another...bribery. Bribery could be considered a form of “convincing via argument”, however. Or, from a capitalist’s point of view you could consider it nothing more than fair purchase at a mutually agreed upon price.

Then there is blackmail. Blackmail I suppose is a form of force, but not physical force. And the victim must be a willing accomplice. You can’t force someone to give in to blackmail. Well, unless you are actually using physical force or the threat of it as your method of blackmail.

But otherwise I agree with this article. Firearms aren’t called “THE GREAT EQUALIZER” for nothing. People should realize though that firearms can’t protect from everything. Crooked courts and rigged juries are one. Various predations inflicted by mega rich are another. Once the rule of law becomes corrupted to the point that armed resistance is necessary, you run the risk of total anarchy and destruction. How do you quell the violence after the rebels have disposed of the tyrants? Sometimes it isn’t so easy. Sometimes a purging of tyrants accomplishes nothing more than to make way for another gang of tyrants.

25 posted on 06/14/2007 5:26:56 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Tenacious 1
Yes! I have noticed the same thing about myself. I think it only works this way with reasonably sane and intelligent people, however.

I don’t want anyone knowing I have a firearm, and I don’t wan’t to ever have to use it. It’s my ace in the hole, and part of it’s value is knowing that it will be completely unsuspected when it is called upon for use. You have a totally new perspective and priorities when you know that an argument can potentially escalate to the taking of a life. Suddenly posturing and machismo is irrelevant, foolhardy, and even irresponsible. The fore-brain must prevail.

26 posted on 06/14/2007 5:39:27 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: mamelukesabre

This article was written by Marko Kloos.

Please see the links below to his blog:

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/06/on-plagiarism.html

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html


27 posted on 06/18/2007 4:46:47 PM PDT by glockenstein
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To: Joe Brower

Bang! Excellent article.


28 posted on 06/18/2007 4:51:13 PM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF *GOA*SAS)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ...
Good read.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

29 posted on 06/19/2007 6:25:47 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: dcwusmc

ping


30 posted on 06/19/2007 6:46:50 AM PDT by jmc813 (www.imwithfred.com - DONATE!)
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To: InfantryMarine

Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.” (A sword is never a killer, it’s a tool in the killer’s hands.) - Lucius Annaeus Seneca “the Younger” (ca. 4 BC-65 AD)

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one. - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist 1764.

Gun control laws increase the power of government and the criminal element over the average citizen and serve no other purpose. - Robert E. Lee

A goverment that fears arms in the hands of it people should also fear ROPE! - Nathan Bedford Forrest about 1845

It is hard to oppress a population equipped to hunt animals the size of a man. — L. Neil Smith, Pallas (New York: Tor, 1993), p. 380

Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don’t have a gun, freedom of speech has no power. - Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author commenting on the lack of protest with which Japanese tolerated governmental corruption, Los Angeles Times, 10/15/92

The most important freedom of all is the freedom to defend freedom.- Kevin McGehee

Gun control, the opiate of the intellectuals: covert elitism laced with self-righteousness.


31 posted on 06/19/2007 6:54:26 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: InfantryMarine

Here’s the video of Suzanne Hupp testifying before congress.

http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/23/35/

Just one final statement.
I’ve been sitting here getting more and more fed up with all of this talk about these, pieces of machinery, having no legitimate sporting purpose, no legitimate hunting purpose, people, that is not the point of the second amendment!
The second amendment is not about duck hunting, and I know I’m not going to make very many friends saying this, but it’s about our right, all of our right to be able to protect our selves from all of you guys up there.
And nobody’s talked about that.

Dr. Suzanna Gratia, Killeen massacre survivor who watched as her parents were murdered because she obeyed Texas law and left her handgun locked in her car. Appearing before Rep Schumer’s committee hearings on the assault weapons ban


32 posted on 06/19/2007 7:02:43 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: Agent Smith

The problem with irrational/emotional appeal is that those who emply such arguments are willing to improve your judgement with their gun - although in the case of liberals, it’s a government gun, not one of their own. It would be too much to expect a lib to live the courage of their ‘convictions’.

In any case, libs always prefer to have someone else do their dirty work. That way, they can avoid any responsibility for their actions.


33 posted on 06/19/2007 7:32:44 AM PDT by Noumenon (The Koran is the Mein Kampf of a religion that has always aimed to eliminate the others - O. Fallaci)
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To: Joe Brower

Sure is good to be packing a pistol in FL, compared to packing a little folding knife in Cali.


34 posted on 06/19/2007 7:39:33 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee
That's affirm.
35 posted on 06/19/2007 7:57:23 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: InfantryMarine

Excellent post!


36 posted on 06/19/2007 8:32:28 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: InfantryMarine
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society.

Dead on.

37 posted on 06/19/2007 9:49:20 AM PDT by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: Joe Brower

Got me a 16” Bushie M-forgery too.

Try THAT in Cali!


38 posted on 06/19/2007 10:00:15 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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