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Why I believe in Creation
Worlnetdaily ^ | 12/17/2004 | joe farah

Posted on 06/17/2007 6:54:37 PM PDT by Rodney King

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To: gcruse

That would be true. There should be slightly more water on the earth today as there was a thousand or a million years ago.

Some however, did not grasp the concept of matter not being able to be destroyed when it was taught on the first day of 9th grade science class.


51 posted on 06/17/2007 7:49:21 PM PDT by trumandogz
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To: backtothestreets
Saw one on television live from the US Senate floor this week. Was the dreaded Teddyasaurus. The thing was HUGE!

More proof...

There have been several recent sightings of a female Thunderthighosaurus. It was last seen at a presidential candidate debate.

52 posted on 06/17/2007 7:51:38 PM PDT by vox humana
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To: Cicero
Could be both.


53 posted on 06/17/2007 7:51:43 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008 (or Fred Thompson if he ever makes up his mind))
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To: Rodney King

“... new earth creationists.”

How many creation theories exist? Your citing only the “new earth” theory shows that you don’t understand alternate theories to the theory that God is irrelevant and that “all this” developed slowly through cycles of death and life by a series of random events.

It’s really a fascinating set of theories, this one based on Scripture and supported by the evidence. I challenge you to look into it.


54 posted on 06/17/2007 7:51:48 PM PDT by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: Rodney King
I don't believe in electrons.

Or atom bombs.

55 posted on 06/17/2007 7:52:23 PM PDT by suffering_fools
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To: Theo

I want you to back that claim up. Nothing Jesus said not one thing was anti-evolution nor did anything he said contradict evolutionary science. In fact If anything Jesus told his followers to view the Old testament for what it was a story and that he was here on Earth to replace those stories with his word and his law.

So lets get cracking and post what Jesus had to say on this subject. Of course you will come up lacking because you want to speak for Jesus rather than listen to what he said.


56 posted on 06/17/2007 7:52:55 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: Theo
It’s really a fascinating set of theories, this one based on Scripture and supported by the evidence. I challenge you to look into it.

I have, and I disagree with your statement "supported by the evidence".

57 posted on 06/17/2007 7:53:15 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Theo

Did you ever wonder how the scientific method, the success of which has put rovers on Mars and made it possible through MRI to look inside the body without cutting it, is nonetheless seen as completely inadequate when it comes to investigating anything that bumps up against religious beliefs?

Me neither.


58 posted on 06/17/2007 7:55:47 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Oztrich Boy; gcruse

Depends what Mobius was doing with that strip. Ewww!


59 posted on 06/17/2007 7:59:28 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008 (or Fred Thompson if he ever makes up his mind))
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To: sentis1

Well, there is that thing He said about the “jot and tittle”.


60 posted on 06/17/2007 8:00:11 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: Larry Lucido

61 posted on 06/17/2007 8:01:49 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Rodney King
I don't have a photo of a bunny-rabbit with a pancake on its head, so I give you this...

Species extinction rate speeding up: 50,000 species a year

Clearly Homo sapiens caused the caveman extinction. 

They did not.

Thanks. Let the reparations begin.

I wouldn't put it past some stooges to try it.

Global warming deniers should snag the Gieco cavemen to impart and educate the populace on the Global warming hoax. They could have that effect without calling it a hoax. Also, they could do mortal combat with the enviro-whackos.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Too easy.

Interviewer: Tell us caveman, how does today's world stack up to that of your early ancestors?

What's he going to say? You want me to say that modern man's technology is causing tremendous harm and hardship for the hunter-gather caveman. Cavewoman and cave-children hit hardest."

Caveman: Yeah right!  Like that's goanna happen -- NOT! Sipping mint-juleps poolside is such a hardship. Where do you people come from?!

62 posted on 06/17/2007 8:02:08 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Rodney King

I wouldn’t waste time on someone like that.

Landru guide me.


63 posted on 06/17/2007 8:05:48 PM PDT by mgstarr (KZ-6090 Smith W.)
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To: sentis1

Old testament for what it was a story and that he was here on Earth to replace those stories with his word and his law.

What Jesus and Old Testament are you talking about?


64 posted on 06/17/2007 8:08:16 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: Coyoteman
Would you happen to know where Patrick Henry’s (RIP) 27 proofs (or 37, whatever), or equivalent, can be accessed online? Thanks in advance.
65 posted on 06/17/2007 8:16:34 PM PDT by caveat emptor
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To: Theo

“Someone who believes in Jesus can’t believe in evolution”

That is a complete lie, and I am sure that you know it isn’t true. I believe in Jesus and in evolution. What I don’t believe is that one translation of the Bible is exact, and that every word has only one possible meaning.

Genesis 12:10, Genesis 20, and Genesis 26 are all the same story about Abraham and Abimlech. They contain different information about the story, and appear to contradict each other. A little history explains the reasons for this very clearly. Different writers with different purposes. They all send the same basic message, therefore they contain biblical truth.

Maybe you don’t agree, which is your perogative. I am not God, so I am not qualified to judge the truth of your beliefs. I will, however, defend mine from your criticism. The Jesus that I believe in suffered and died so that my sins would be forgiven. This would certainly include a belief in evolution, if it was a sin (which I doubt that it is). Your claim that one cannot believe in Jesus and evolution is only that...Your claim. It has nothing to do with God or Jesus or forgiveness or Christianity. It is only your narrow and exclusive interpretation of the Bible.


66 posted on 06/17/2007 8:22:19 PM PDT by ga medic
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To: Coyoteman

I suppose the questions needing to be asked are, “Is it rational to believe in the theory of evolution and the big bang, or is it rational to believe in the creationists ideal of origins?” Would you not agree?


67 posted on 06/17/2007 8:22:55 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: caveat emptor
Would you happen to know where Patrick Henry’s (RIP) 27 proofs (or 37, whatever), or equivalent, can be accessed online? Thanks in advance.

The List-O-Links, now the Un-Missing Links, have been relocated to DarwinCentral.org.

The direct link is http://wiki.darwincentral.org/tiki-index.php?page=Un-Missing+Links.

Within that page, you will find a link for 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution.

68 posted on 06/17/2007 8:24:42 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Rodney King
There are also countless contemporary sightings of what appear to be pterodactyls in Asia and Africa.

I can't help but marvel at the similarity in appearance between pterodactyls and the present day brown pelicans.

These guys are Florida's best fishing guides....when they're not just sitting around.

69 posted on 06/17/2007 8:32:35 PM PDT by capt. norm (Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.)
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To: ga medic

If you do belive in evolution and Jesus as you say, perhaps you would entertain Genesis 1:26 “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. Other texts would include Hewbrews 1:2, Colossians 1:16 and others. Now the Bible speaks of Jesus Christ involved in creation. What will you believe?? If you choose to throw out these texts, then you become the author of the Bible. If it is just a reference book, then throw it away, just believe in your self. If you choose to believe, then submit your self to the entirety of scripture, and view all things from an eternal perspective.


70 posted on 06/17/2007 8:37:54 PM PDT by quiverfull (Since my quiver is full at home, the budget will not provide a full quiver in the woods)
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To: svcw

The words of Jesus

“The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those who do not know the secret, everything remains in parables, so that, ‘seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand; lest they should turn, and their sins be forgiven them’”.

“You hypocrites, Isaiah described you beautifully when he wrote - ‘This people honours me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men’. You are so busy holding on to the traditions of men that you let go the commandment of God!”

“Humanly speaking it is impossible, but not with God. Everything is possible with God.”

even evolution and a 4 billion year old Earth

“I assure you that we are talking about something we really know and we are witnessing to something we have actually observed, yet men like you will not accept our evidence. Yet if I have spoken to you about things which happen on this earth and you will not believe me, what chance is there that you will believe me if I tell you about what happens in Heaven?”


71 posted on 06/17/2007 8:42:29 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: gcruse
It takes ALOT more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in creation.
I would love to see 1 bit of evidence...
Evolution makes ZERO sense.
72 posted on 06/17/2007 8:46:07 PM PDT by mazza
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To: mazza

” I would love to see 1 bit of evidence’

I doubt it would help you. Joe Farah, who wrote the article atop this thread, acknowledges there is a mountain of evidence but needs someone to explain to him why he should accept it.

You can’t be reasoned out of things you weren’t reasoned into.


73 posted on 06/17/2007 8:49:51 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: mazza
I would love to see 1 bit of evidence...

OK, here's one. There are lots more where that came from. (Better close your eyes, lest you "see" some evidence.)



Fossil: KNM-ER 3733

Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406 A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

74 posted on 06/17/2007 8:50:13 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: sentis1

God also said he could raise up children from stones, and in Ezekiel, God breathed into dry bones, but he also said the evening and the morning were the first day, the second day,.....etc.

Also, I find it extremely difficult to extrapolate a 4 billion year old earth and evolution from “with God, all things are possible.”, when He clearly states he created. Don’t use the scriptures for your ideas, take your ideas from the scriptures.


75 posted on 06/17/2007 8:53:38 PM PDT by quiverfull (Since my quiver is full at home, the budget will not provide a full quiver in the woods)
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To: quiverfull

I believe that God created the world and everything in it. I believe that this happens through a process that I do not fully understand, that involves evolution and other processes which can be scientifically observed. I do not throw away the word of the Bible, nor do I only believe in myself. I just don’t believe that a strict literal reading is necessary or accurate. The Bible has been translated from language to language. There are many translations using different words and having different meanings. They cannot all be literally true, but they can all contain the truth.

I do not expect you to believe as I do. Nor do I condemn your beliefs. But, I am a Christian and I believe in evolution, so don’t tell me that it isn’t possible.


76 posted on 06/17/2007 8:56:42 PM PDT by ga medic
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To: Coyoteman
That MAY be homo Erectus..and that proves what?
77 posted on 06/17/2007 9:00:47 PM PDT by mazza
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To: ga medic

1 Corinthians 15:39


78 posted on 06/17/2007 9:00:57 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: quiverfull

All you have to do is open your eyes and look at God’s creation to see that the world is older than 6,000 years. This is what Christ is telling the people when he says to them they worship the tradition and not the father. Of the Old testament Christ only refers to the ten commandments as Law all else he either is dismissive of such as when he tells the Jews they are not the sons of Abraham or he preaches that the people need to stop open their eyes and see God rather than than the word.

Genesis is a parable or even allegory as is most of the old testament. As with the teachings of Christ they are stories that are easily understood by primitive people as morality stories. They are not meant to be literal.

Your salvation doesn’t depend on your belief in a 4 billion year old world merely on your belief in Christ however your belief in a 6,000 year old world does endanger the souls those who see the world more clearly than you because they see your belief as archaic and ignorant. I don’t blame them for that in the least.


79 posted on 06/17/2007 9:01:49 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: Rodney King
"I was stunned the other day when I asked evolution-believing listeners to my nationally syndicated radio show to call in and tell me why they believed. "

Isn't that like going to a Bhuddist Temple and asking the Baptists there to sing to Jesus? ...and wondering at the lack of response?

80 posted on 06/17/2007 9:02:42 PM PDT by cookcounty (No journalist ever won a prize for reporting the facts. --Telling big stories? Now that's a hit.)
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To: sentis1

Dismissive? Like when He red from Isiah? Careful.


81 posted on 06/17/2007 9:05:57 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: quiverfull

If you believe that the Bible is literal and always correct go back and read the three things the Bible got wrong that I posted at the beginning of this debate. These three things are proof that the Bible is not the literal truth. If the Bible is not correct on every point then there are two possibilities.

1. the Bible is false
2. the Bible (especially the old testament) is not to be taken as literal truth but as parable or allegory.

Number 2 is the correct rational answer.


82 posted on 06/17/2007 9:06:03 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: trumandogz
"If there was a global flood, can you tell me where all the water went?

OK, I'll bite. Into the oceans.

83 posted on 06/17/2007 9:06:12 PM PDT by cookcounty (No journalist ever won a prize for reporting the facts. --Telling big stories? Now that's a hit.)
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To: mazza
That MAY be homo Erectus..and that proves what?

You didn't ask for proof. You asked for "1 bit of evidence." I provided that. There is a lot more where that came from.

Are you someone who will deny any evidence he doesn't like? Just wave it all away?



84 posted on 06/17/2007 9:07:24 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Cedric

Yes, He read from Isiah to illustrate a point that the people were acting like brained numbed robots just as was written in Isiah.
Jesus used a cultural reference the people would be familiar with just as I might quote “Bender” when I tell all YEC to “bite my shiny metal a$$”. :)


85 posted on 06/17/2007 9:10:19 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: Theo
Yes, it is sad that so many believe in the anti-God fable of evolution.

Why don;t you believe in evolution.
86 posted on 06/17/2007 9:10:34 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: sentis1
Right. That’s why God, literally, dictated the Torah to Moses letter-by-letter.
87 posted on 06/17/2007 9:10:54 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: cookcounty

” OK, I’ll bite. Into the oceans.’

Didn’t you read the warning on the back of the seat in front of you?

“In the event of a global flood, please do not empty containers into the ocean, as they will already be filled past overflowing.”


88 posted on 06/17/2007 9:11:28 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: sentis1

Speaking of “Bender”, are you drinking?


89 posted on 06/17/2007 9:14:09 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: Cedric

Moses said alot of stuff and I bet you don’t believe everybody that said God dictated stuff too them. Mohammed said God dictated the Koran letter by letter to him also, do you believe that?

Moses may have gotten some inspiration but God doesn’t work that way (literal letter by letter inspiration). He didn’t work that way then and he doesn’t work that way now. If he did God would have an internet connection and have 24/7 biblical tech support online.


90 posted on 06/17/2007 9:15:07 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: sentis1
however your belief in a 6,000 year old world does endanger the souls those who see the world more clearly than you because they see your belief as archaic and ignorant.

Their souls are endangered because not everyone sees the world as they do? Perhaps you might want to rethink that whole seeing the world more clearly thing. If the intelligent can lose their souls because of the archaic and ignorant beliefs of others, I don't think they were so intelligent to being with.

91 posted on 06/17/2007 9:15:15 PM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: ga medic

I apologize if I have offended you, truly. It is not my intent. I do believe in a strict literal interpetation as it refers to grammar. Such as word structure, word meanings, sentence structure, metaphors, hyperbolies etc. The translations are not inerrant, but they are the best we have. Therefore, it is imperitive that our understanding in english be derived from the language in which the Bible was written, Hebrew and Greek. For example, the word “love” in Greek has seven different meanings, from a eternal love to a brotherly love. I only believe the clearest interpetation of what the Scripture says, and desire to conform my life to that.
As to believing what you want, we cannot fall into the trap of postmodernity which shrugs off absolute truth- You believe what you want, I’ll believe what I want. There must be absolute truth, or there is no distinction between us and animals - survival of the fittest. The Scriptures are clear, God created.


92 posted on 06/17/2007 9:15:21 PM PDT by quiverfull (Since my quiver is full at home, the budget will not provide a full quiver in the woods)
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To: Cedric

Thanks for going into the realm of personal attack real Christian of you.

Sorry but your belief in a young Earth does nothing but drive people from a faith in God. You’re like the vendors at the Temple Gate you distract from the work of God.


93 posted on 06/17/2007 9:17:59 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: sentis1

I was hoping for your sake that the answer was, “yes”.


94 posted on 06/17/2007 9:20:22 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: gcruse

LOL!! The point I was hoping to make is that the dimensions and depth of the oceans is not necessarily a constant. If oceans are deeper, mountains are higher, then volume capacity of the oceans has changed. But in the end, we are speaking of miracle, which is by definition beyond naturalistic resolution.


95 posted on 06/17/2007 9:20:47 PM PDT by cookcounty (No journalist ever won a prize for reporting the facts. --Telling big stories? Now that's a hit.)
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To: sentis1

” If he did God would have an internet connection and have 24/7 biblical tech support online.”

LOL
Can’t you just imagine?

“This iz biblical tech supporting, Jeremiah speaking. How may I render assistanze to you todeh?”

“You sure do have a heavy Pakistani accent to be named Jeremiah, Jeremiah.”


96 posted on 06/17/2007 9:21:41 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Cedric

So??? Animals are all different. I would hope that was obvious. I choose to read the passage as a whole, in context. I see nothing about evolution, but I do hear the part about victory over death through belief in Jesus. “But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” I don’t see where it says except for those who believe in evolution.

I will continue to do God’s work, and to strenghthen my faith through prayer etc. I look forward to salvation, as Jesus talked about. None of it requires that I must disregard years of scientific evidence.


97 posted on 06/17/2007 9:23:25 PM PDT by ga medic
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To: Theo
Someone who believes in Jesus can’t believe in evolution — what He believed and spoke directly contradicts the theory.

That is total bullsh*t. You DON'T have to reject science in order to accept God. If you do, I feel bad for you.

Evolution is real. Many species have evolved over many years. Hell, some species may evolve over a decade if they have to. In seom cases it's more simple than physical evolution - we as humans evolve and adapt to our personal situations during our lives.

The concepts of biology, chemestry, physics, carbon dating, geology, and physiology are all real. I don;t see how one can rationally say that they don't exist. To do so would be living in denial.

Believing in God is great. However, to reject the concepts of science and evolution in order to accet Jesus and God is foolish .
98 posted on 06/17/2007 9:23:27 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: Cedric

Also BTW just to clarify things you Young Earth Creationistas are a bit light in the loafers on evidence when you don’t even try to argue against the three obvious things the Bible got wrong from the first page of this debate. Sorry but if you can’t even make an argument in defense of the “BIBLE AS LITERAL TRUTH” how the heck are you going to find evidence that the world is a measly 6,000 years old. I have pottery older than that sitting on my desk. :)


99 posted on 06/17/2007 9:23:58 PM PDT by sentis1
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To: Cedric

I was hoping for your sake your belief in a young earth was just as a devils advocate position rather than a serious mental defect. Sorry, mental defect or educational ignoramus seems to be the appropriate prognosis.


100 posted on 06/17/2007 9:26:30 PM PDT by sentis1
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