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YouTube Video On Avoiding U.S. Job Applicants Angers Programmers
InformationWeek ^ | Jun 18, 2007 | Mary Hayes Weier

Posted on 06/18/2007 5:53:11 PM PDT by calcowgirl

IT professionals criticize a law firm's video play-by-play description on how to circumvent the PERM process in favor of H-1B visas.

YouTube bites again. A law firm's attempt to get positive exposure for an immigration law conference by posting it on You Tube backfired when an organization that's been tough on H-1B visas and offshore outsourcing copied it and made a controversial video of its own. In the original video, posted by the firm Cohen & Grigsby from a May 15 conference, an attorney is shown advising attendees on how to meet the minimum requirements of advertising a job to U.S. candidates so that a foreign worker can more easily be hired. The firm's conference dealt with the U.S. government's labor certification requirement for foreign workers, the first step in helping them obtain green cards. The law requires that an employer prove there are no qualified U.S. citizens for a permanent job being offered before hiring a non-citizen.

In one 10-minute segment of the conference video, a panel of lawyers are shown discussing Program Electronic Review Management (PERM), an electronic labor certification system the government put in place two years ago to reduce certification to under 60 days. It was that portion of the video lambasted by the Programmers Guild, an organization of IT professionals that is staunchly protectionist against the loss of U.S. jobs to foreign workers both onshore and offshore.

The PERM process requires that an employer post a job in at least three places and allow 30 days for job candidates to respond for the employer to review resume. If no interested and qualified U.S. workers respond, an employer can instantly and electronically apply for a foreign worker's labor certification.

In the video, a Cohen & Grigsby attorney advises attendees that posting the job at an employer's Web site and with a local newspaper is usually enough to fill the minimum requirement, if the newspaper also posts the job online.

Another attorney, Lawrence Lebowitz, adds, "We're going to try to find a place [to advertise] where we are complying with the law and hoping, and likely, not to find qualified and interested worker applicants." A different firm attorney mentions less desirable methods that are more likely to pull in qualified and interested workers, including job fairs, online job sites like Monster.com, campus recruitments, and job placement firms.

In its YouTube video, the Programmer's Guild accuses the firm of using fake job ads to fulfill the PERM process. "These ads constitute fraud on American job seekers," says the organization in its text leading into the video.

Contacted at his Pittsburgh office the afternoon of June 18, Lebowitz said he was reviewing the matter with other partners in the firm and declined comment at this time.

The law firm removed the conference video sometime between 4 p.m. and 5 p.m. Eastern daylight time on June 18.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; cohengrigsby; h1b; illegalimmigration; lawrencelebowitz; youtube
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View the Video Here

Prior FR Thread: How to not hire an American

Money Quote:

"Our goal is clearly NOT to find a qualified U.S. worker... our objective is to get this person a green card ... so certainly we are not going to try to find a place where applicants would be most numerous."

-Lawrence M. Lebowitz - VIce President of Marketing, Cohen & Grigsby

1 posted on 06/18/2007 5:53:14 PM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: AM2000; nicmarlo; Czar; kellynla; AuntB; NormsRevenge; SierraWasp; ElkGroveDan; gubamyster

FYI.


2 posted on 06/18/2007 5:55:36 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
"These ads constitute fraud on American job seekers,"

I'm sure some enterprising lawyer can manage to find RICO case.

3 posted on 06/18/2007 5:55:36 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: calcowgirl

That’s why our corporations are always bribing congress to increase the number of H1-B visas,so they can avoid paying Americans the going Market wage.

These Corporations are going to kill the middle class because of greed.If they wreck the American Middle class who do they think will buy their products.


4 posted on 06/18/2007 5:58:55 PM PDT by puppypusher (The world is going to the dogs.)
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To: calcowgirl

Job Fairs. What a laugh. They only serve to make an employer look good.


5 posted on 06/18/2007 5:58:55 PM PDT by freekitty
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To: calcowgirl

Nothing like a lawyer....


6 posted on 06/18/2007 5:59:24 PM PDT by pointsal (q)
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To: calcowgirl
The biggest outrage is not the one committed by the law firm, but rather the complicity of our very own worthless and useless federal government--everyone understands that "enforcement" of U.S, immigration laws is virtually nonexistent and on those rare occasions when they may actually be moved to do something, that something is always accompanied by the "wink and a nod" signal for the pro-illegal alien lobby that means "don't worry, we had to act on this one, but you guys are free to keep doing what you have been doing with only occasional and largely symbolic interference from us".
7 posted on 06/18/2007 6:08:27 PM PDT by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: puppypusher

Not just Corporations.

Apparently the California Republican Party couldn’t find any Americans to employ, instead using an H1B visa to hire a Canadian. The guy doing the hiring for the CRP is an Australian.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1850876/posts

Of course, the Governor is an Austrian citizen, so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised.


8 posted on 06/18/2007 6:09:07 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: puppypusher
If they wreck the American Middle class who do they think will buy their products. America only has 300 million people, spread across a very large piece of land. The American middle class is a subset of that. They intend to sell their products/services to middle classes in other lands... lands that have a lot more people (read 'consumers') than we do. Corporations and the people who kowtow to them (read 'politicians on both sides of the aisle') aren't going to look out for our interests. Who will?
9 posted on 06/18/2007 6:18:07 PM PDT by AM2000
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To: calcowgirl; Borax Queen; Czar
FYI

They just hate it when their anti-American unethical tactics are exposed.

10 posted on 06/18/2007 6:18:21 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

No doubt they will continue on without shame. ;-(


11 posted on 06/18/2007 6:20:19 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

But of course. They can’t become something other than what they are in the dark, greedy heart of hearts.


12 posted on 06/18/2007 6:21:49 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: calcowgirl; Duncan Hunter Ambassador; Ultra Sonic 007

Wow. This is bullshiite. Good find Calcowgirl.

Sam, please forward this on to your father. I think he will be very interested in this.


13 posted on 06/18/2007 6:34:16 PM PDT by pissant
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To: puppypusher
These Corporations are going to kill the middle class because of greed

Which is funny cuz that's where the middle class works, and whose stock the middle class owns. The market will dictate. They're not trying to kill the middle class. Just trying to keep costs down.

14 posted on 06/18/2007 6:37:34 PM PDT by Huck (Soylent Green is People.)
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To: Huck
Just trying to keep costs down.

Which is fine. It's the atempt to circumvent the intent of the law that bothers people. The whole point was to allow corporations to hire foreigners when they can't find a qualified US worker. That's not what's happening here, and that is what is wrong.

15 posted on 06/18/2007 7:19:03 PM PDT by AM2000
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To: calcowgirl

Wow - that video is wicked. I would like to see the HR people in it lose their jobs to an immigrant. How many applications do they get of people out of jobs? This is just wrong.


16 posted on 06/18/2007 7:30:58 PM PDT by RushingWater (Pres. Bush honors Mexican sovereignty over our own - Pardon Ramos/Campeon/Hernandez)
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To: RushingWater

Correciton in previous post:
not immigrant - H1B visa person. Legal immigrants AOK. Corporations trying to NOT hire Americans - slimely.


17 posted on 06/18/2007 7:32:47 PM PDT by RushingWater (Pres. Bush honors Mexican sovereignty over our own - Pardon Ramos/Campeon/Hernandez)
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To: calcowgirl

As a veteran of Silly Valley, I can attest that what you see here is 100% true: job descriptions that are made to meet the legal requirements that “no H1B visa or green card holder takes a job from an American” are carefully crafted to make sure that no one will be able to meet the requirements of the H1B visa holder that has retained the lawyers in pursuit of a green card.

The other dirty little secret out there is this: H1B visa employees are the closest thing to indentured servants since the end of the Civil War. When you’re working under a H1B visa, you have to pretty much take whatever crap your “sponsoring company” is handing out until such time as you get your green card, which requires forking over quite a tidy sum to a law firm like Cohen & Grigsby. H1B visa holders, if fired, by law have to return to their home country before applying for another H1B (or other) visa to enter the US.

This ends up working as a lengthy probation period. If the H1B holder doesn’t work out for the hiring company, they just choose to not continue his employment at the end of his visa; legally, he is now up a creek. If the employer deems him worthy of retention, the employer might hire the lawyers to get the green card process moving right along. At the point that the employee gains his green card, then his pay often goes up, or generous stock options are granted to implement a golden handcuff to keep the guy in place.


18 posted on 06/18/2007 8:06:46 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: calcowgirl

my ex went to work for cohen and grigsby in pitt. I went to one of their events - they were mostly a bunch of a-holes.


19 posted on 06/18/2007 8:11:04 PM PDT by steel_resolve (Islam cannot compete in the marketplace of ideas, so they car bomb it instead.)
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To: AM2000
It's the atempt to circumvent the intent of the law that bothers people. The whole point was to allow corporations to hire foreigners when they can't find a qualified US worker. That's not what's happening here, and that is what is wrong.

Well, circumvention of legal intent all depends on who's ox is getting gored, doesn't it? I don't know a businessman doesn't try to cut costs/corners. And anyway, how do you know what the whole point was? Maybe the whole point all along was to import cheap labor, and the bit about "when they can't find qualified US workers" was just crapola to sell it to the rubes. Not trying to hassle you about it. Just saying.

20 posted on 06/18/2007 8:12:09 PM PDT by Huck (Soylent Green is People.)
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To: calcowgirl

Now maybe some of the Left leaning Democrat supporting computer programmers in LALA land will see the light and fight the immigration give away going on in Congress.


21 posted on 06/18/2007 8:12:48 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.)
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To: Huck
how do you know what the whole point was? Maybe the whole point all along was to import cheap labor, and the bit about "when they can't find qualified US workers" was just crapola to sell it to the rubes.

Good point. Didn't think of it that way.

22 posted on 06/18/2007 8:13:59 PM PDT by AM2000
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To: NVDave

Sounds like a sweet deal for the employers. Nice!


23 posted on 06/18/2007 8:14:27 PM PDT by Huck (Soylent Green is People.)
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To: Travis McGee; wardaddy; ShadowAce; N3WBI3

ping


24 posted on 06/18/2007 8:18:56 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: rdb3; chance33_98; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; PenguinWry; GodGunsandGuts; CyberCowboy777; Salo; Bobsat; ..

25 posted on 06/18/2007 8:20:08 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: JamesP81; dirtboy

Saw you both on this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1852060/posts

and thought you might be interested.


26 posted on 06/18/2007 8:59:22 PM PDT by kenth (I got tired of my last tagline...)
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To: 1 Olgoat; 103198; 10Ring; 11Bush; 1stbn27; 2ndClassCitizen; 2SterlingConservatives; 2yearlurker; ...
I thought this might interest you all. Immigration lawyers training businesses how to get around that pesky rule about looking for qualified Americans for jobs before they can import slave-wage help.

If you are interested in the illegal immigration and AMNESTY Bill issue, watch the video. You'll be pi##ed.

27 posted on 06/18/2007 9:08:23 PM PDT by tgslTakoma
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To: tgslTakoma

Thanks for the ping. You’re right...I’m livid.


28 posted on 06/18/2007 9:43:25 PM PDT by jan in Colorado ("we need to move away from the Kennedy Wing of the Republican Party” Duncan Hunter June 5,2007)
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To: calcowgirl

THIS is why laissez-faire, libertarian, free-market capitalism does not and cannot work over the long term. The corporate entity will do anything — anything — to gain an advantage of its competitors. Borders, culture, civilization itself — all are grist for the corporate mill. Unregulated, the capitalist knows no loyalty except to the bottom line.


29 posted on 06/18/2007 10:05:38 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: 3D-JOY; abner; Abundy; AGreatPer; Albion Wilde; alisasny; ALlRightAllTheTime; AlwaysFree; ...

PING!


30 posted on 06/18/2007 10:08:29 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Will I be suspended again for this remark?)
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To: calcowgirl

Lawrence m. Lebowiz is a CRAPitalist. His grandfather must be very proud of him.


31 posted on 06/18/2007 10:24:57 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
1. If I posted a video on why I would give money for someone to beat up the shysters at Cohen & Grigsby, would that be ok? Free speech and all that...

2. Google/Youtube is flagrantly disseminating information used in a conspiracy to commit a crime. In fact, this is a crime which IT firms like Google benefit from. RICO anyone?

32 posted on 06/19/2007 12:08:20 AM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: Huck

“Which is funny cuz that’s where the middle class works, and whose stock the middle class owns. The market will dictate. They’re not trying to kill the middle class. Just trying to keep costs down.”

They are trying to fudge next quarters numbers so they will get a bigger bonus. Eventually they will lay off enough people to kill the middle class. Most of the companies doing this are profitable to start with. They do it out of greed.


33 posted on 06/19/2007 3:38:02 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: calcowgirl

In fairness to Arnold, didn’t he become an American citizen years ago?

I’m an IT professional and strongly against hiring H1B’s as long as a single engineer can’t find a job, but let’s be honest, and not loose with the facts like the liberals.


34 posted on 06/19/2007 3:48:22 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Czar

The biggest outrage is not the one committed by the law firm, but rather the complicity of our very own worthless and useless federal government—everyone understands that “enforcement” of U.S, immigration laws is virtually nonexistent

######

100% spot-on correct assessment of the problem!


35 posted on 06/19/2007 4:25:50 AM PDT by maica (America will be a hyperpower that's all hype and no power -- if we do not prevail in Iraq)
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To: driftdiver
They are trying to fudge next quarters numbers so they will get a bigger bonus. Eventually they will lay off enough people to kill the middle class. Most of the companies doing this are profitable to start with. They do it out of greed.

yeah, i agree they are under pressure to deliver quarterly numbers. labor is usually the biggest cost. from their standpoint, why wouldn't they? In fact, as long as the competition does it, they have to do it to survive. I dont see it as greedy to use cheaper labor if you can get it. and the GOP stands for the free market, right? So what are we gonna do? Become democrats? organize? for me, i got out of the corporate game. i used them before they could use me. now i work for myself in a field hindus simply can't handle.

36 posted on 06/19/2007 4:50:58 AM PDT by Huck (Soylent Green is People.)
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To: B-Chan

“THIS is why laissez-faire, libertarian, free-market capitalism does not and cannot work over the long term. The corporate entity will do anything — anything — to gain an advantage of its competitors. Borders, culture, civilization itself — all are grist for the corporate mill. Unregulated, the capitalist knows no loyalty except to the bottom line.”

I don’t agree. The individuals making these decisions are not doing what is best for their company. They are doing what is best for themselves. Everything in the public sector is about next quarters numbers. These individuals will do anything to improve those numbers which will then improve their bonus. Its greed.

Free-market capitalism does work but what we have is not a free market. The govt of India is subsidizing their companies to come here and take our business and jobs back to India. Those companies would not have had the capital otherwise. Further OSHA, EPA, Unions, oppressive govt regulations make it much more expensive and difficult to do business in the USA.


37 posted on 06/19/2007 5:21:47 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: calcowgirl
"These ads constitute fraud on American job seekers," says the organization in its text leading into the video.

And to think President Bush swallows the "jobs Americans won't do" crap, hook, line and sinker.

38 posted on 06/19/2007 6:16:18 AM PDT by GOPJ (MSM's dumped inner city unemployment stories - Immigration bill conflicts and all....)
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To: GOPJ

>>>And to think President Bush swallows the “jobs Americans won’t do” crap, hook, line and sinker.<<<

President Bush isn’t swallowing anything. He is a self-serving deceiver.


39 posted on 06/19/2007 6:26:40 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau (God deliver our nation from the disease of liberalism!)
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To: jan in Colorado

ping


40 posted on 06/19/2007 6:54:26 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: nnn0jeh

ping


41 posted on 06/19/2007 7:03:20 AM PDT by kalee (The offenses we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we write in marble. JHuett)
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To: Alas Babylon!
In fairness to Arnold, didn’t he become an American citizen years ago? ...let’s be honest, and not loose with the facts like the liberals.

Let's not be loose with the allegations.

Arnold is an Austrian citizen and a U.S. citizen. Austrian law automatically voids Austrian citizenship if an Austrian national swears allegiance to another nation. In 1983, Schwarzenegger took the oath of citizenship and became a U.S. citizen. Subsequently, Arnold lobbied friends in high places to have his prior Austrian citizenship reinstated. I do not believe you can pledge allegiance to two nations simultaneously. His pledge to the U.S. was weakened by his subsequent action.

42 posted on 06/19/2007 7:37:29 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl

Lawrence Lebowitz: llebowitz@cohenlaw.com

Jennifer Park: jpark@cohenlaw.com


43 posted on 06/19/2007 10:52:13 AM PDT by kms61
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To: calcowgirl

Bump.


44 posted on 06/19/2007 11:20:35 AM PDT by kms61
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To: All

CNBC will be discussing this next on their show!


45 posted on 06/19/2007 11:57:26 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: PhilipFreneau
President Bush isn’t swallowing anything. He is a self-serving deceiver.

I think you're right on this one.

46 posted on 06/19/2007 2:29:26 PM PDT by GOPJ (MSM's dumped inner city unemployment stories - Immigration bill conflicts and all....)
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To: calcowgirl

Bump


47 posted on 06/19/2007 3:43:28 PM PDT by jonwill (it's Clinton's fault)
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To: driftdiver

I agree with what you posted. It’s individual greed definitely.

For instance, if any of you ever worked or knew someone who worked in retail, you know that they’ve all made it the sales clerks job to push store and credit cards on customers or magazines or service plans (Best Buy, etc) and that they are judged VERY harshly on this aspect of their job. They often do not inform people of this beforehand and spring it on them afterwards.

In any case, the ‘rewards’ the associates get are meager. A chance to COMPETE in a raffle for a piddling discount or free item or gift card somewhere. Meanwhile, the managers who do NOT do ANY of the sales work in getting customers to sign up for these credit cards or service plans collect fat bonuses based on how hard they drive the underlings to get results.

One of the things that people think is great about publicly-traded companies is that you or I can own a piece of an institution, an emerging business, whatever. The problem is that publicly-traded companies have far less accountability than a privately-owned company. It’s that example people brought up of Milton Hershey refusing to use too much machinery building a plant during the Depression because he wanted to hire more people. Or that guy who had the factory in New England that burned down and continued to pay people salaries and rebuilt the thing.

An individual can drive a company culture all by himself and be an exemplar of those principles elucidated in Smith’s Theory of Moral Sentiments.

With the structure of the corporation, the management set up conflicts of interest among employees (such as I mentioned—why wouldn’t the people actually DOING the great sales jobs get rewarded MORE than the people who act like a-holes and drive others to do it from fear?) and to play shell games and numbers games with stockholders.

It’s all about stock price but half the time the numbers being presented at these meetings are illusory. I see it in my job all the time. Decisions and strategies that are actually DAMAGING (I’m in property management) to the company’s reputation, loses it customers (First rule of business, I thought—keep your customers) and cost it money are done for the sake of throwing some numbers in the faces of the stockholders so they can get that price up, get their own bonuses and set themselves up for their inevitable departure to another corporation to repeat the process.

I’m not saying corporations are evil or to ban them or that there are no disreputable or grasping privately-owned businesses, it’s just that the structure of the corporation and how it defines its successes and failures and how competing agendas within the structure of ‘the team’ will lead to certain results.


48 posted on 06/19/2007 11:53:30 PM PDT by Skywalk (Transdimensional Jihad!)
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To: calcowgirl; All
Screen Caps from the YouTube Video:

They said they are sorry for the poor choice of words.

These words:

THE GOAL OF PERM:

Run classified ads that do NOT find any qualified U.S. workers.









49 posted on 06/22/2007 4:12:30 PM PDT by Syncro
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To: jiggyboy
I think you were being flippant, but actually Dobbs as cnn did a segment on it.

YouTube Video

50 posted on 06/22/2007 4:14:48 PM PDT by Syncro
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