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To: Wombat101
Nope. Faith is the willful abandonment of reason. No matter how poetically you put it. Faith does not require evidence, and pointing out that it typically has none to support it will have no effect on the faithful, either.

Define Evidence.

Do you believe Troy was a real city? If so, why? Do you believe Jesus lived, died, and ressurected? Why? Do you believe in Anacrtica? Do you believe that men actually went to the moon? These ALL require faith to some degree.

Do you believe you exist?

23 posted on 06/20/2007 9:51:43 AM PDT by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray

“Define Evidence.”

If I can see it, kick it, spit on it, measure it, fold-spindle-or-mutilate it, if it is verified by a secondary source that meets the same criteria, if it is observable in both it’s properties and it’s behavior, then it’s evidence.

If you have to stretch logic, disobey the laws of nature , play tricks of mental gymnastics and engage in exercises in self-deception in order to give the appearance of subtance to the esoteric, then it IS NOT evidence.

“Do you believe Troy was a real city?”

Yes. The evidence, historical, literary and archelogical is umistakable; a city existed, it fits the general parameters of the city of Troy as described by Homer (amongst others). It may not have been ever called “Troy” but it has come down to us as “Troy” through time and it exists by all the virtues I listed above.

“Do you believe Jesus lived, died, and ressurected?”

I believe that a man who’s name has come down to us a Jesus of Nazareth once existed, that he was executed and then he disappears from history (apparently dead). I do not believe in the ressurection (12 years of Catholic school will do that to you), I do not believe that Jesus claimed divine lineage, and the historical and archelogical evidence available suggests that he was a revolutionary (whether politcal or religious, or both, is open to debate), not a deity.

The “evidence” for the divinity of Christ exists solely in the Bible, which is above-average factually in terms of the historical and archelogical record, but this does not prove that it is either a work divinely inspired, or that the Christ mythology is in any way, shape or form true (in fact, it’s recycled Mithras-ism, short and simple, a religion that predates Christianity by almost 1,000 years). Besides God, if she exists (has to be a She, since only a woman could create a system of belief with this many logical contradictions and STILL demand to be taken seriously) only does so because man NEEDS her to.

“Do you believe in Anacrtica?”

Yes, I’ve seen it. Have you?

“Do you believe you exist?”

Apparently I do since you took the opportunity to respond.


29 posted on 06/20/2007 10:47:19 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: jimmyray
Do you believe Troy was a real city? If so, why? Do you believe Jesus lived, died, and ressurected? Why? Do you believe in Anacrtica? Do you believe that men actually went to the moon? These ALL require faith to some degree.

I believe Jesus lived, died and resurrected not because I wish it so...but because of what The Bible says. Also, I have discovered that there is more evidence to believe the Bible is a valid preserved ancient text that is in a class by itself when compared to other ancient texts. Thus, Christianity is not something that requires you to leave your brain outside of your body when practicing it.

Also, it does not require faith to know that Armstrong and Aldrin were the first men on the moon....it requires a TV.

31 posted on 06/20/2007 10:51:33 AM PDT by Taggart_D
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To: jimmyray
Define Evidence

Scientific evidence is a prediction of a scientific theory that has been observed. A prediction is a logical deduction of the theory. That is, it is the conclusion of a logical argument from the axioms that comprise the theory. Usually contingent information must be added to formulate the argument so, strictly speaking, the prediction is evidence of the theory plus the contingent information. That's why we hope lots of independent lines of evidence so that the potential falsity of the contingent arguments is of less concern.

I hope that clears it up for you.

72 posted on 06/20/2007 12:58:00 PM PDT by edsheppa
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To: jimmyray
Define Evidence.

Do you believe Troy was a real city? If so, why? Do you believe Jesus lived, died, and ressurected? Why? Do you believe in Anacrtica? Do you believe that men actually went to the moon? These ALL require faith to some degree.

You quote Hebrews 12:1 and then give only examples of things that can be seen. It is the things that cannot be seen that requires faith.
115 posted on 06/21/2007 11:54:13 AM PDT by Seven_0 (You cannot fool all of the people, ever!)
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