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The Offensive Truth: Relativism and Our Kids
Breakpoint with Chuck Colson ^ | 6/20/2007 | Chuck Colson

Posted on 06/20/2007 8:58:09 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback

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To: Mr. Silverback
Me: Logic, shmogic. I prayed : )

You: To who?

I guess some of my humor needs explanation. You called my logic skills poor, and I replied with a brief joke -- see the attempted smiley face. A "reason vs. faith" joke: I don't need logic and reason as long as I have faith. I could have gone balls-out and responded to your charge with an angry essay-length rant, but I'm not that sensitive (or angry at all) so I decided on a brief joke instead. Ba-da-bum. Thank you, I'll be here all week.

Cheers.

151 posted on 06/25/2007 12:07:06 AM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions
But how does one "teach" faith (morals)?

Didn't you say you came out of a Jewish background? How do you not know that in the Law the Jews are commanded to teach God's laws to their children, to discuss them as they sit in their home and as they travel?

One does not instill a leap of faith, but one does teach ethics and morals. If you have a son, will you teach him that there is no God? If so, how could you possibly get that across to him without using methods similar to Colson's? If not, aren't you just letting him wander around until someone like me puts (from your point of view) pathetic gobbledygook into his skull full-o-mush?

don't underestimate the ability of kids of any age to see through what they perceive to be BS.

Consider this: This Joanne woman in the article believes that Jesus wasn't kidding when He said he is the Way, Truth and Life, and presumably she does her best to live as if that is true. The kids she teaches are surrounded by people who believe there's really no such thing as truth, yet still claim to follow Jesus. Therefore, I submit that these seven kids have been completely co-opted by the BS "Christian" values of their parents and clergy. You've got 8 kids. One set of parents modeled a Christianity that claims to be The Truth, the other seven modeled a Christianity that is playing dressup on Sunday morning. Or, perhaps they are serious, but they aren't quite serious enough about their faith to make sure that their kids aren't multi-culted out of it by the public schools and/or pastors who belong on a hippie commune. When a leader stood up and said, "Here's what we do if this stuff is real," only the kid who saw the real deal at home accepted that concept. The others tried to remake Christianity in their parents' (or their school's) image.

That's how you instill values, by discussing them, holding to them and living them. It worked like a charm for all eight kids. Another thing to consider is that you and I have more in common than I have with the Sunday dressup Christians. You and I both deal in a world where certain truths exist. I believe it's true there's a God, you don't. One of us is wrong, but neither of us would dream of saying we're both right. But they would tell us we're both right, or maybe tell you you're wrong, but only say it because they're "supposed to." I believe they're the ones Christ was talking about when He said people should either be hot or cold, because He'd spit the lukewarm out of His mouth.

152 posted on 06/25/2007 12:08:47 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: Freedom_no_exceptions

Mine was a joke, too. I just didn’t add the smiley face.


153 posted on 06/25/2007 12:09:45 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: G Larry
On Thursday, a person told me with a straight face that astrology is a science. I don't know what her politics are like but I know where I'd place my bets. They have whole threads on DU about what politicians' astrological charts mean.

You know the worst part? The head of our local library's Youth Services Department just couldn't figure out for the life of her why I was angry that my tax dollars were supporting an introduction to astrology for kids. even though she doesn't believe in it at all she just had no idea why I'd be worried about a bunch of kids being taught that such voodoo is a science.

154 posted on 06/25/2007 12:15:31 AM PDT by Mr. Silverback (A pacifist sees no distinction between the arsonist and the fireman--Freeper ccmay)
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To: Mr. Silverback
My Jewish background consisted of growing up in a Massachusetts town close to Boston that just happens to be about 80-85% Jewish and going to Hebrew school, where we learned a few Hebrew words, played dress-up every holiday, and were told that good little Jewish kids shouldn't trick-or-treat on Halloween. (I was NEVER a "good little Jewish boy.") When it came to religion (Judaism) as opposed to culture (Jewishness), neither my parents nor anyone I know wholly subscribes to the Torah, Tanach, Midrash, Mishnah, or other rabbinical teachings. In other words, I grew up Jewish like the other 8 kids in the article grew up Christian, but even more secular. Hardly anyone around me kept kosher, went to synagogue, believes that God is anything more than "something out there," or was Jewish in any way besides their last names.

Now...I'm not saying that I would have turned out the same in a different background, but who knows? Kids don't always turn out like their parents (I didn't). If I ever become a parent, the values that will most concern me are secular -- don't hit, don't steal, don't lie, don't put a person in a cage for smoking weed, don't lay claim to other people's earnings, etc. Beyond what matters most to me...whatever. Yes, I would mention that I do not believe in God (or anything else supernatural), but will not force the issue. I will, indeed, let them "wander around" to a great extent. I did, and think I turned out OK.

Finally, I agree we have more in common than Sunday dress-up Christians, as well as Jews who keep kosher but think of God as "something out there." My initial post and a couple others were misinterpreted as suggesting that all beliefs are equally valid and true. Far from it! Many beliefs out there are mutually exclusive (there is a God vs. there isn't), and others may or may not be (God vs. evolution, or God AND evolution). Of course, I want everyone to get along because I don't want to be blown to bits by someone who holds a competing version of truth, but I'd never suggest that two mutually exclusive beliefs can both be true. As for why I phrased my post the way I did...honestly, I forget. It was four days ago...and late. Like it is now.

Cheers.

155 posted on 06/25/2007 1:40:49 AM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: Mr. Silverback
...I think that’s what you were getting at...:-)

Actually; I wasn't.

I re-read what I posted and it makes no sense to ME now!

(My idea had to do with some poor soul, down in the galley with an oar and a fellow on each side of him; all rowing like crazy! LARSON-like)

156 posted on 06/25/2007 6:10:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
(My idea had to do with some poor soul, down in the galley with an oar and a fellow on each side of him; all rowing like crazy! LARSON-like)

Ahh...so that's what you were getting at! I love the Far Side, and its portrayals of hell -- cardiovascular exercise, video stores, complaint boxes...pretty good stuff. South Park's hell looks a lot more fun though.

157 posted on 06/25/2007 9:22:14 AM PDT by Freedom_no_exceptions (No actual, intended, or imminent victim = no crime. No exceptions.)
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To: Tired of Taxes

Meditate on Exodus 3:14 for a while...then cross meditate on the Genesis story when God says “Let us make man in our image”.

In one sense all that we can know about God is what he chooses to reveal about himself...either through the Bible or in his direct presence in our hearts through a relationship with him.

When God spoke to Moses out of the burning bush, he called himself “I AM THAT I AM!” (or “who” depending on the translation). He is the “IS” in all that exists. We humans exhibit the very essense of God’s image impressed into our beings by the use of the phrase “I” in our every day conversations and by possessing self awareness, a sense of our own “IS’ness”!

It can help clear the head and heart when praying, by realizing that while we can scarcely know God in his vast wonderfulness, we at aleast are praying to a God who is self aware, self sustaining, and self Identifying another words...”I am not praying to a god of sticks or stones, or to Satan or Demons who masquerade as God, but to the Living God, the GOD THAT IS GOD, and the GOD WHO KNOWS THAT HE IS GOD! BLESSED IS HE THAT COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!”

Here is something I meditate on(a kind of exercise in logic): God said to Moses “I AM THAT I AM” there fore
HE is that HE is ergo
God is that God is...
and believing that we are made in his image,
We are what we are, only
because He is what He is!
Strife and confusion can try to shake our faith and confidence in this “Is” God, and Satan has many voices with which to confuse our knowledge of God’s presence...but just remember; the real God knows that HE IS GOD! Center your self on that priciple when you pray even in uncertainty of the knowledge of just who you are praying to and your pleas will fly true like arrows to HIS heart.

The meaning of the story in which Jesus incensed the religious leaders by declaring, “Before Abraham was I AM” should now spread across your heart like a dawning sun. This is the very essence of Christianity, God as a man visiting us bodily in our fallen state. Have confidence in Christ even if churches sometimes fail, and be confident the the “IS” God will complete his work in you as it appears to me he is doing in you!


158 posted on 06/28/2007 5:14:05 AM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: mdmathis6
Thank you for your post #158. Sorry for the delay in response.

Have confidence in Christ even if churches sometimes fail, and be confident the the “IS” God will complete his work in you as it appears to me he is doing in you!

Thank you so much.

159 posted on 07/05/2007 8:54:42 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
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