Skip to comments.We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM
Posted on 06/21/2007 10:54:10 AM PDT by RWR8189
The Polish PM has stunned European leaders today with an astonishing attack on Germany for starting the Second World War.
In a spectacularly undiplomatic outburst, he said his country was losing out in today's European Union as a direct result of the millions of deaths that followed its invasion by Germany in 1939.
"We are only demanding one thing - that we get back what was taken from us," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski at the opening of the EU summit in Brussels, chaired by German chancellor Angela Merkel.
"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."
The issue of population is at the heart of a heated row over voting rights that could wreck Tony Blair's last EU summit.
A proposed new system of sharing out votes rewards countries such as Germany with the biggest numbers - and Poland is angrily demanding more.
Poland's population is 38 million - implying that Mr Kaczynski blames the Germans for the loss of 28 million people.
Mr Kaczynski and his twin brother Lech, Poland's president, are said to be Second World War obsessives, with an encyclopaedic knowledge of their country's sufferings under occupation.
The identical twins, whose father fought in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, have become infamous for their unrestrained comments and dislike of EU integration.
Luxembourg's premier, Jean-Claude Juncker, said they should stop living in the past. "You have to jump into the present," he told FT Deutschland.
"You will not be happy in the long run if you are always looking in the rear-view mirror."
It sets the scene for a rancorous dinner tonight when leaders of the 27 EU states need to thrash out a series of disputes to avoid a crisis.
Mr Blair, notching up his 47th EU summit, told his Cabinet in London that he was prepared to walk away from the table unless his own demands were met in full.
Before flying out, he and Gordon Brown had telephone talks with Mrs Merkel - indicating that Mr Brown is intensely involved in the negotiations.
Mr Blair came under fire for trying to water down the EU's "son of constitution" treaty. Mr Juncker a veteran federalist, fumed: "We will not stand by and see all the substance removed from the treaty."
New French president Nicolas Sarkozy said there were multiple disputes.
"We don't just have problems with Poland," he said. "We have problems with the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, a little bit with the Czech Republic. The problems are numerous."
Privately, No 10 indicated that Mr Blair wanted his demands met "100 per cent". But European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso retorted: "All the leaders say that they want 100 per cent achievement. But in Europe you've got to be reasonable and rational.
"At the end there has to be some, let's say, agreement."
Mrs Merkel sent an 11th-hour letter pleading with the leaders to compromise, so that Europe could move on from inwardlooking disputes to pressing issues such as climate change, energy supplies and globalisation.
"The European public now expects us to put the necessary reforms of the Union in hand," she wrote. "The time has now come to set out the roadmap for the impending reform of the treaties."
the majority didn’t even go to elections.
Grownup meaning someone who swallows the tripe that coems out of Brussels and Strasbourg, the former a cabal of unelected bureaucrats and the latter a mini-UN General Assembly. You may not have also noticed that K. also remembers what the eastern half of the anvil did in 1939. Let by-gones be by-gones. Sure, when they are actually gone.
The results speak volumes. You inability to accept the results says something about your anger.
Oh well - you got me - I am a bit angry on your president - but not much - so are many people in europe at the moment
And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland.
It was just not the majority of poles - by far not - who elected that little napoleon - and I take it from my polish friends that they certainly will not vote for the guy who is certainly not improving the image of poles in europe.
I know that there are germans and not a small number that don’t think adequately of poles. There’s all these stolen car jokes and rants about polish thiefs - I know them well.
But we have to overcome stupidity and hate - not produce more of it. What do you think will K improve for poland if his hobby is counting deads in auschwitz ?
You like to be in the boat - keep the mood up not down. You got interests ? Seek for supporters - make agreements - improve things. I expect you poles to bring some fresh air into the EU - be innovative - negotiate hard - sail that ship.
Imagine you guys had a say adequate for your high population. You really think you could never convince a german ?
no grown up means someone who can convince people to follow his ideas because they are good for europe.
Heh, talk about an ‘inconvenient truth’!
tell us more about your education and upbringing.
Who are the “people” he has to convince? A few hundred thousand elitists who make all the decisions and who ostracize anyone who does not accept their diktat. Populism has never been a force in Europe except when a thug like Hitler makes an appeal to raw emotion. Germans especially just don’t know how to organize grassroots movements.
You haven’t a clur about how a conquered people feel about their conquerors.
The Germans also suffered mightily from the war, but they —most of them—know that they brought misery upon themselves. Those in the west also “enjoyed” an occupation by a benign conqueror who protected them from those who had overrun Poland and were able through much hard world to restore their economy to a high level by 1970. The Poles, on the other hand, were overrun by the Germans and by the Russians, suffered a horrendous loss of life, and from 1945 to the 198os suffered from Communist rule and a lack of any real self-government. Only now are they beginning to get on their feet and now they are being ordered to adopt the social democratic, slow-growth system in place in Germany and France. What for? So they can’t compete?
First of all... it’s 200 posts about one small subject.. Poland trying to save Europe from others (Turkey) or herself (Europe) again...some things just don’t change
I won’t coment on the last 200 posts I have no time for that, to name just few on this page (200 - 251)
“And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland”
Gee, whole Europe would cry if you wouldn’t accept that...
Guys, consider the fact that even the most anti-polish rag in Germany (except for neo nazi shit-papers) “Die Welt” supports Poles in this one... (They said: “In future historians will say” Poland wanted to save Europe”)
Dear Germans... ask yourself.. what happens if Turkey joines EU? they will be a superpower on the same rights as Germany.
Thanks to your method of voting...
Why do you support part of constition that has been rejected in France and Netherlands?... why do you support piece of paper that has so many doubts in it? don’t be shortsighted, please.
To quote Ms. Merkel: “We would like to make conference of EU memebers without Poland” - PAP
This reminds me of old Metallica song:
“You can do it your own way,
If it’s done just how I say
Freedom of choice,
A Choice is made for you my friend,
Freedom of speech,
Speech is words that they will bend,
Freedom with their exception”
Let’s not forget, I am sure it was posted, the 93 year old Nazi War Criminal in Italy, who is still working, work release program maybe.
So within living memory is the case at the least.
Slovakia wouldn't like it much either as Poland had annexed a chunk of them in 1938.
Sure, if you forget that only 40% of the Polish people went to the ballots...