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We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM
Evening Standard ^ | June 21, 2007

Posted on 06/21/2007 10:54:10 AM PDT by RWR8189

The Polish PM has stunned European leaders today with an astonishing attack on Germany for starting the Second World War.

In a spectacularly undiplomatic outburst, he said his country was losing out in today's European Union as a direct result of the millions of deaths that followed its invasion by Germany in 1939.

"We are only demanding one thing - that we get back what was taken from us," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski at the opening of the EU summit in Brussels, chaired by German chancellor Angela Merkel.

"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."

The issue of population is at the heart of a heated row over voting rights that could wreck Tony Blair's last EU summit.

A proposed new system of sharing out votes rewards countries such as Germany with the biggest numbers - and Poland is angrily demanding more.

Poland's population is 38 million - implying that Mr Kaczynski blames the Germans for the loss of 28 million people.

Mr Kaczynski and his twin brother Lech, Poland's president, are said to be Second World War obsessives, with an encyclopaedic knowledge of their country's sufferings under occupation.

The identical twins, whose father fought in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, have become infamous for their unrestrained comments and dislike of EU integration.

Luxembourg's premier, Jean-Claude Juncker, said they should stop living in the past. "You have to jump into the present," he told FT Deutschland.

"You will not be happy in the long run if you are always looking in the rear-view mirror."

It sets the scene for a rancorous dinner tonight when leaders of the 27 EU states need to thrash out a series of disputes to avoid a crisis.

Mr Blair, notching up his 47th EU summit, told his Cabinet in London that he was prepared to walk away from the table unless his own demands were met in full.

Before flying out, he and Gordon Brown had telephone talks with Mrs Merkel - indicating that Mr Brown is intensely involved in the negotiations.

Mr Blair came under fire for trying to water down the EU's "son of constitution" treaty. Mr Juncker a veteran federalist, fumed: "We will not stand by and see all the substance removed from the treaty."

New French president Nicolas Sarkozy said there were multiple disputes.

"We don't just have problems with Poland," he said. "We have problems with the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, a little bit with the Czech Republic. The problems are numerous."

Privately, No 10 indicated that Mr Blair wanted his demands met "100 per cent". But European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso retorted: "All the leaders say that they want 100 per cent achievement. But in Europe you've got to be reasonable and rational.

"At the end there has to be some, let's say, agreement."

Mrs Merkel sent an 11th-hour letter pleading with the leaders to compromise, so that Europe could move on from inwardlooking disputes to pressing issues such as climate change, energy supplies and globalisation.

"The European public now expects us to put the necessary reforms of the Union in hand," she wrote. "The time has now come to set out the roadmap for the impending reform of the treaties."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: affirmativeaction; crimes; eu; germany; kaczynski; poland; racism; reparations; ww2
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To: eleni121

the majority didn’t even go to elections.


201 posted on 06/22/2007 8:04:42 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: Rummenigge

Grownup meaning someone who swallows the tripe that coems out of Brussels and Strasbourg, the former a cabal of unelected bureaucrats and the latter a mini-UN General Assembly. You may not have also noticed that K. also remembers what the eastern half of the anvil did in 1939. Let by-gones be by-gones. Sure, when they are actually gone.
.


202 posted on 06/22/2007 8:05:55 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: Rummenigge

The results speak volumes. You inability to accept the results says something about your anger.


203 posted on 06/22/2007 8:07:11 AM PDT by eleni121 ((+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: eleni121

Oh well - you got me - I am a bit angry on your president - but not much - so are many people in europe at the moment

And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland.

It was just not the majority of poles - by far not - who elected that little napoleon - and I take it from my polish friends that they certainly will not vote for the guy who is certainly not improving the image of poles in europe.

I know that there are germans and not a small number that don’t think adequately of poles. There’s all these stolen car jokes and rants about polish thiefs - I know them well.

But we have to overcome stupidity and hate - not produce more of it. What do you think will K improve for poland if his hobby is counting deads in auschwitz ?

You like to be in the boat - keep the mood up not down. You got interests ? Seek for supporters - make agreements - improve things. I expect you poles to bring some fresh air into the EU - be innovative - negotiate hard - sail that ship.

Imagine you guys had a say adequate for your high population. You really think you could never convince a german ?


204 posted on 06/22/2007 8:18:46 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: RobbyS

no grown up means someone who can convince people to follow his ideas because they are good for europe.


205 posted on 06/22/2007 8:20:43 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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Comment #206 Removed by Moderator

To: RWR8189

Heh, talk about an ‘inconvenient truth’!


207 posted on 06/22/2007 8:23:49 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: eleni121
When has the German position ever been objective? You got to be kidding or delusional!

The US of A seem to be doing fine with a double majority (House/Senate). But then again you could say that Poland's math is a sign of European intellectual superiority *LOL.


208 posted on 06/22/2007 8:26:24 AM PDT by wolf78 (Penn & Teller Libertarian - Equal Opportunity Offender)
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tell us more about your education and upbringing.


209 posted on 06/22/2007 8:28:16 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Ah,tenth generation American... blame it on dyslexic person(me)+typo+Free Republic spell checker
210 posted on 06/22/2007 8:51:37 AM PDT by tophat9000 (My 2008 grassroots Republican platform: Build the fence, enforce the laws, and win the damm WAR!)
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Comment #211 Removed by Moderator

To: vox_PL
The war ended in 1945. Since then the only foreign forces on your soil have been Soviet. Your rant makes no sense. If you are so psychologically scarred, see a shrink.

.

212 posted on 06/22/2007 11:30:13 AM PDT by OESY
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To: Rummenigge

Who are the “people” he has to convince? A few hundred thousand elitists who make all the decisions and who ostracize anyone who does not accept their diktat. Populism has never been a force in Europe except when a thug like Hitler makes an appeal to raw emotion. Germans especially just don’t know how to organize grassroots movements.


213 posted on 06/22/2007 12:22:26 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: OESY

You haven’t a clur about how a conquered people feel about their conquerors.
The Germans also suffered mightily from the war, but they —most of them—know that they brought misery upon themselves. Those in the west also “enjoyed” an occupation by a benign conqueror who protected them from those who had overrun Poland and were able through much hard world to restore their economy to a high level by 1970. The Poles, on the other hand, were overrun by the Germans and by the Russians, suffered a horrendous loss of life, and from 1945 to the 198os suffered from Communist rule and a lack of any real self-government. Only now are they beginning to get on their feet and now they are being ordered to adopt the social democratic, slow-growth system in place in Germany and France. What for? So they can’t compete?


214 posted on 06/22/2007 1:12:08 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: Rummenigge; All

First of all... it’s 200 posts about one small subject.. Poland trying to save Europe from others (Turkey) or herself (Europe) again...some things just don’t change

I won’t coment on the last 200 posts I have no time for that, to name just few on this page (200 - 251)

“And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland”

Gee, whole Europe would cry if you wouldn’t accept that...

Guys, consider the fact that even the most anti-polish rag in Germany (except for neo nazi shit-papers) “Die Welt” supports Poles in this one... (They said: “In future historians will say” Poland wanted to save Europe”)
Dear Germans... ask yourself.. what happens if Turkey joines EU? they will be a superpower on the same rights as Germany.
Thanks to your method of voting...

Why do you support part of constition that has been rejected in France and Netherlands?... why do you support piece of paper that has so many doubts in it? don’t be shortsighted, please.

Latest news:

To quote Ms. Merkel: “We would like to make conference of EU memebers without Poland” - PAP

This reminds me of old Metallica song:
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Metallica/Eye-Of-The-Beholder.html

“You can do it your own way,
If it’s done just how I say

Independence limited,
Freedom of choice,
A Choice is made for you my friend,
Freedom of speech,
Speech is words that they will bend,
Freedom with their exception”


215 posted on 06/22/2007 1:39:44 PM PDT by Verdelet (Condemned by European Parliament since 2004!!!)
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To: Verdelet
Dear Germans... ask yourself.. what happens if Turkey joines EU? they will be a superpower on the same rights as Germany.

There is only one flaw in your logic:

Kaczynskis: "We support the Turkish EU bid!"

Merkel + Sarkozy: "Turkey is not a part of Europe!"

It is Poland who wants Turkey as an EU member, not Germany.

To quote Ms. Merkel: “We would like to make conference of EU memebers without Poland” - PAP

You omit what went on before: While Lech said in Berlin "The German and Polish positions are not that far apart anymore", Jaroslaw back in Warsaw gave a TV interview threatening a veto.

That can mean two things: Either Merkel was intentionally lied to (should that be a negotiating technique?) or nobody knows who's in charge in Poland.

Either way, to call that "unprofessional" would be understating the matter.

However, Lech and Jarek made a crucial mistake: Merkel grew up under communist rule, too. She can play hardball just as well als the Kaczynskis.
216 posted on 06/22/2007 2:11:39 PM PDT by wolf78 (Penn & Teller Libertarian - Equal Opportunity Offender)
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To: RWR8189

Let’s not forget, I am sure it was posted, the 93 year old Nazi War Criminal in Italy, who is still working, work release program maybe.

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/15105/52/

So within living memory is the case at the least.


217 posted on 06/22/2007 7:39:53 PM PDT by RGPII
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To: tophat9000
I don't think Ukraine/Russia would ... they would have to give back a hell of a lot of land to Poland.

Slovakia wouldn't like it much either as Poland had annexed a chunk of them in 1938.

218 posted on 06/22/2007 10:11:42 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: eleni121

Sure, if you forget that only 40% of the Polish people went to the ballots...


219 posted on 06/22/2007 11:54:34 PM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: wolf78
There is only one flaw in your logic: Kaczynskis: "We support the Turkish EU bid!"

OK, that was an eye-catcher for me, and I looked it up just to make sure. Seems like the Kaczynski's really do support or claim to support Turkey's EU bid...

This has me confused, why would Poland of all countries support that bid? The most hard-core Catholic nation in Europe (or close enough) supporting an entry of a non-christian country - a muslim country at that...

Nothing against the Kaczkis, but sometimes I don't follow their logic??
220 posted on 06/23/2007 12:13:58 AM PDT by Konrad_PL (Still Polish.... still proud ;))
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To: CarrotAndStick
If they quibble over this, the only benefit might be the end of the European Union.

You talk as though that's not a good thing.
221 posted on 06/23/2007 1:16:26 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: jmc813
Allow me to be the first to say reply in the affirmative with you, not that I would have made your choice in words.

There is nothing hilarious about the New World Order.
222 posted on 06/23/2007 1:27:42 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Sonny M

Now that’s funny! I don’t care who you are.


223 posted on 06/23/2007 1:32:23 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: wolf78

The fact that German and Polish positions are not that far apart doesn’t mean Poland won’t veto constitution. Surprisingly it’s easier for Poland to talk about constitution with Germany then with Italy and Sweden. Their comments are very brutal I’d say, and they have no will to talk over the case.


224 posted on 06/23/2007 2:37:37 AM PDT by Verdelet (Passed all my exams!!!)
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To: Iwo Jima
You talk as though that's not a good thing.

"If they quibble over this, the only benefit might be the end of the European Union."

:^)

225 posted on 06/23/2007 2:38:25 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick
But that's just an illustration of why artificial unions like this are a bad idea and won't last. The animosities of the past are not "over." The are certainly not forgotten.

The Poles are not going to agree to being given orders by the Germans after they suffered, fought, and died up until a mere 20 years ago (first by the Germans then by the Soviets due to the actions of the Germans).

This "quibbling" as you call it is just one of a hundred reasons why one world government or these precursor grand unions are doomed to failure -- a colossal, bloody failure.
226 posted on 06/23/2007 6:54:48 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Michael81Dus

51% voted.

The stay at homes can cry a river...


227 posted on 06/23/2007 8:09:01 AM PDT by eleni121 ((+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Iwo Jima

Very true.


228 posted on 06/23/2007 8:17:22 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: RobbyS
You haven’t a clur about how a conquered people feel about their conquerors.

Au contraire, perfido.

“A great civilization is not conquered from without
until it has destroyed itself from within.”
— Will Durant

The Roman Empire? Imperial Poland? Nazi Germany? An American civilization consumed by liberal values contrary to the national interest, political posturing to gain short-term advantage, a corrupt and hopelessly biased press, and perpetual readiness to surrender to terrorists abroad and illegal immigrants at home?

Take 17th Century Poland as an example. Polonians had conquered nearby tribes: Lenczanians, Mazurs, Kuyavtans, Jadzwings, Chrobatians (Post #81). Now, proud, feudal, independent, so suspicious of central authority that only two of The Crown’s kings were native Poles: one a discarded lover of a Russian empress and the other John Sobieski, the national hero who held off the Turks at the gates of Vienna. Polish and Lithuanian landed aristocracy controlled White Russian and Ukrainian peasants. Corruption, bribery and palace intrigue produced a power vacuum in which the Poles had few friends and plenty of ambitious neighbors eager to protect their blood brothers. Though some Polish noblemen were accomplished and widely traveled, perhaps owing to a dearth of literature in the Polish language with the arts centered on folk productions, many became impoverished, ill-educated and unruly... or, in other words, ripe for partition. Meanwhile, Germans inhabited East Prussia, Pomerania and the larger towns and resisted assimilation.

Fast forward to the 1919-1920 Peace Conferences of WWI, where the seeds of resentment were planted in the German populace. Germany lost all African and Pacific Ocean colonies, but more significantly, European territories to France (Alsace-Lorraine—87% German, Saar Basin temporarily—nearly 100% German), Denmark (by League of Nations plebiscite), Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania and by far the largest chunk—17,806 square miles to Poland that contained 12% of her population. That caused many Germans to be willing to listen to whoever promised relief--probably not unlike the U.S. populace if an international “peace” conference gave the American Southwest back to Mexico, presuming we still had some fight left. Part of the area seized was the Polish Corridor including Danzig--97% German and 3% Polish. (It was not by coincidence that WWII opened with a symbolic German attack on the Danzig post office. Many Poles even welcomed a Bolshevik defeat.) After WWI, Poles used abandoned ordinance to begin new expansions into Ukrainian, Lithuanian and German territories. Thus, we see Poles never missed an opportunity to try to subjugate others. (Polish News June’07 http://www.polishnews.com/text/polish_studies_newsletter/june_2007.html)

We can conclude that the Poles suffered mightily from the war, but most of them know that they brought misery upon themselves, as evidenced by past wrongs perpetrated. For instance, Auschwitz could not have operated efficiently without substantial Polish collaboration in promoting the Holocaust--and we’re not just talking about kids flashing death signs to captives on trains. Poles do not care to criticize their Soviet conquerors because there is no advantage to be gained—in votes or reparations money. In sum, as others have argued above, perceptions of justice and injustice depend on where the history clock is started. If we insist on continuing to fight the last war, the fight will never end as each side rages on. I'm impressed that your contribution to that rage has been considerable.

.

229 posted on 06/23/2007 1:55:04 PM PDT by OESY
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To: OESY

I am quite aware of the events you describe. I also know that the pre-war Polish regime was quasi-Fascist and —like the Czech regims, not kind to minorities. However, that is beside the point. We in the South enslaved millions of people and even went to war in order to preserve our system. BTAIM, we were invaded and finally over whelmed by large Union armies, which not only destroyed our economy (in 1870, NYState alone had a large GDP ; than the entire former confederacy) but left us for us under military government. In 1877, the North abandoned its effort to coerse the South and allwed state government to return to the hands of their white majorities. Not until the 1960s can it be said that the South recovered from the Civil War. </i>
I recite this history to remind you that an angry scar never heals and is a constant reminder of past injuries done. You have a point about the benefits of letting go. But it is silly to compare the evils done by the Poles with those done by the Germans or the Russians. They simply never had the power.


230 posted on 06/23/2007 2:13:45 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: OESY

1919-1920 Peace Conferences of WWI, ... Germany lost all African and Pacific Ocean colonies, ...European territories to France ...Denmark ...Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania and by far the largest chunk—17,806 square miles to Poland that contained 12% of her population.


You must be smoking something... and it ain’t common sense.

Germans lost what WASN’T THEIRS in the first place. So much for your “analysis”.


231 posted on 06/23/2007 2:18:43 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: eleni121
You’re exactly right, finally a voice of reason? Laying a claim to land that has changed hands more times than history has had the pleasure to record generally doesn’t make for a good case for it to change hands again.

I suppose the Mongols will be sending a letter soon asking for southeastern Europe back. Hell, the Italians have a pretty case for just asking for all of Europe back.

232 posted on 06/23/2007 3:53:11 PM PDT by daveprg
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To: RobbyS
Basically I agree with you. The comparison is one of character, not magnitude. Just as the British use of concentration camps in the Boer Wars does not compare in scope with those of the Nazis. Similarly, the bombing of Rotterdam and Coventry do not measure up to the bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. But protagonists argue precedent, not degree. Conflicts escalate as history evolves and technology advances. Not to trivialize, but some claim records are made to be broken.

Now if only we can convince the Islamic fascists (with military might, if necessary) that they can like as they want in their own societies. But they seem intent on staging spectacular killings--with the explosion of a nuclear device in a U.S. city high on their wish list. Maybe we have to set an example, but if they agree and live in peace for 60 years, or 140 years, I for one am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. How about you?

.

233 posted on 06/23/2007 7:20:20 PM PDT by OESY
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To: eleni121


As I wrote, what is one country's and not another's all depends on when you start the history clock. (Map of Europe above, circa 1200 AD.)

The map (circa 1600 AD) displayed in Post #68 shows Poland holds territory that belongs to Lithuania. Where does it end? Are other threats more important?

.

234 posted on 06/23/2007 7:29:38 PM PDT by OESY
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To: texas_mrs
Xactly.
235 posted on 06/23/2007 7:37:39 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: agere_contra
The pre-war population of Poland was 35 million. The post war population of Poland was 24 million - some territorial change (Russians kept a slice of the east - now part of Belorus and Ukraine - and added a slice in the west at Germany's expense in partial compensation), some refugees, at least half outright deaths. Poland's population did not reach pre-war levels until the 1970s and is only 38 million today.
236 posted on 06/23/2007 7:42:47 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: OESY

Nice map. That’s it.

The concept of an EU is built on a foundation of bones blood and denial. My money is on Poland and those others few who are saying nope to an EU!


237 posted on 06/23/2007 7:43:17 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: CarrotAndStick
The matter in question is whether the EU should retain a rule of 1 vote per state, or adopt a new rule that gives more votes to the most populated states, the most populated states being Germany first and foremost, then France, Italy, and the UK.

Poland is saying "not so fast", and is not willing to acknowledge any special greater equity in such population weighted voting, given the way population differences came about in Europe. It is saying "keep one vote per state", knowing full well it underweights the bigger countries. It is saying they should be underweighted in population terms, that they should regard and treat smaller states as their equals, not as junior or second class members of the EU.

Poland is itself a middling country by EU standards. The little ones that benefit the most by one country, one vote are the lowland countries, scandanavia, and the smaller eastern European countries (Poland is much larger than the others in eastern Europe, in population terms).

238 posted on 06/23/2007 7:48:29 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: OESY

I do not trust the Muslims as far as I can throw the Kaaba. I have in times past thought that we made a big mistake in destroying the Ottoman Empire. But then I remember that Armenian Massacres—which of course the Turks deny to this very day. In this respect they are no unique. The Japanese refuse to admit the Nanking massacres, and for the same reason, which is that such things are dishonorable. A main difference is that despite this the Japanese have become a cold and rich society that has abandoned the Samarai culture that gave rise to Japanese militarism. This in addition to the Japanese ability to develop scientific thinking in one compartment of their brain while continuing to be traditionally Japanese in another. This enables the Zen buddhist to fly on an airplace which to his thinking does not exist. Very few Arabs have the ability to hold onto an 7th Century warrior cult mentality and at the same time modern scientific thought. Intellectually the Arab world is like the avereage American teenager: he loves all these gadgets and knows how to make them work. But the theory behind them? He could care less. The whole Muslim world is like this. The present problem is that the teenagers have decided to join gangs and get their real kicks from endless violence.


239 posted on 06/23/2007 7:50:22 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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To: JasonC

Thanks for that perspective!


240 posted on 06/23/2007 8:42:09 PM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: RWR8189

Well, as a German I do agree. It is unfair to have a voting system based on population.
Instead, the voting system should be based on the amount of money a state invests in the projects of the EU and to help the weaker EU members.
Oh my bad, the mean Germans would have too many votes then, and Poland....almost none.

Pssshhh, we just can’t find a “fair” system, that allows Poland to get way more votes then they actually deserve.... /sarc


241 posted on 06/24/2007 2:05:53 PM PDT by Cerb
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To: Cerb

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Look how many genocides have happened since WWII.


242 posted on 06/24/2007 4:26:01 PM PDT by RGPII
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To: RGPII

I don’t want to forget the past, I just think those statements hurt Poland’s reputation and political credibility. In my opinion, it just was neither a valuable contribution to the discussion nor helpful for finding a solution. Such statements might be fashionable in Poland, but on the European level they seem a bit awkward. The history between Germany and Poland is a difficult one, and I understand that there is much mistrust, however, we have to accept the economic and political reality.Most European countries don’t share the view of the Polish president, who constantly blames modern Germany to try to rewrite history. There is nothing wrong with trying to make one’s country more powerful, but in the EU that just works by forging alliances, not by trying to blackmail and shut off other member states.


243 posted on 06/24/2007 5:07:57 PM PDT by Cerb
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To: RobbyS

We don’t ?

An ex-member of a grass roots organization was our last foreign minister and Germany is the main fund raising area for greenpeace.

There’s no building project that is not accompanied by ‘critical’ citizens.

To name a good example for a change - the billion project of a glass palace for european self celebrations in my home town has been turned down in favour of paying back states debts - by a grass roots oposition.

At times my country looks much too grass rooty for me.

We just don’t accept elites here - that’s our true problem.


244 posted on 06/25/2007 12:00:38 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: eleni121

but the poles support the EU to a higher degree than kaszinsky.

In fact throughout europe there are little states where people support the EU so much.


245 posted on 06/25/2007 12:04:04 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: eleni121

No - only 40% voted - poles have never before in their history shown more disgust to those they had been offered to elect.

51% of those who have the right to vote voted and 3.5 made their votes not valid.

Summ it up and you see that kazinsky is electecd by only 25 % of those poles, who may vote.

If they had elections tomorrow he’d be a gonner.


246 posted on 06/25/2007 12:18:11 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: Verdelet

“And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland”

Gee, whole Europe would cry if you wouldn’t accept that...

___

Seems so - at least one pole cried a river about me not accepting it.

I was surprised just as you are about my importance.

And - although europe will not ask me about my attitude - so it doesn’t ask for yours.

Even if you where a VIP - I guess your points are not relevant.

Even if we froze the status quo with represents germanies weight in heads and economics to no degree - we would still find our interests considered approprietly.

This is because we have diplomats - and not farmers conducting our political business.

Read Antigone and know what happens to the narrow minded.


247 posted on 06/25/2007 12:27:11 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: Rummenigge

“Read Antigone and know what happens to the narrow minded.”

German history shows us perfectly what happens with narrow minded people.


248 posted on 06/25/2007 1:28:03 AM PDT by Verdelet (Passed all my exams!!!)
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To: Verdelet

true enough


249 posted on 06/25/2007 1:36:52 AM PDT by Rummenigge (there's people willing to blow out the light because it casts a shadow)
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To: Rummenigge

The Greenies look just like the CDU or the SPD to me. Otherwise Paula Kelly would have been that FM. Environmentalism is very much an elitist movement, a kind of effete socialism that would have disgusted Kurt Schumacher. That’s in case you haven’t noticed how trendy it is among the “best people” who decorate “Bunt.” Those elites gather at Davos each year to worry about global warning instead of Islamism. That’s because they can do nothing about the former but could do something about the latter.


250 posted on 06/25/2007 7:41:55 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHOa)
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