Skip to comments.We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM
Posted on 06/21/2007 10:54:10 AM PDT by RWR8189
The Polish PM has stunned European leaders today with an astonishing attack on Germany for starting the Second World War.
In a spectacularly undiplomatic outburst, he said his country was losing out in today's European Union as a direct result of the millions of deaths that followed its invasion by Germany in 1939.
"We are only demanding one thing - that we get back what was taken from us," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski at the opening of the EU summit in Brussels, chaired by German chancellor Angela Merkel.
"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."
The issue of population is at the heart of a heated row over voting rights that could wreck Tony Blair's last EU summit.
A proposed new system of sharing out votes rewards countries such as Germany with the biggest numbers - and Poland is angrily demanding more.
Poland's population is 38 million - implying that Mr Kaczynski blames the Germans for the loss of 28 million people.
Mr Kaczynski and his twin brother Lech, Poland's president, are said to be Second World War obsessives, with an encyclopaedic knowledge of their country's sufferings under occupation.
The identical twins, whose father fought in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, have become infamous for their unrestrained comments and dislike of EU integration.
Luxembourg's premier, Jean-Claude Juncker, said they should stop living in the past. "You have to jump into the present," he told FT Deutschland.
"You will not be happy in the long run if you are always looking in the rear-view mirror."
It sets the scene for a rancorous dinner tonight when leaders of the 27 EU states need to thrash out a series of disputes to avoid a crisis.
Mr Blair, notching up his 47th EU summit, told his Cabinet in London that he was prepared to walk away from the table unless his own demands were met in full.
Before flying out, he and Gordon Brown had telephone talks with Mrs Merkel - indicating that Mr Brown is intensely involved in the negotiations.
Mr Blair came under fire for trying to water down the EU's "son of constitution" treaty. Mr Juncker a veteran federalist, fumed: "We will not stand by and see all the substance removed from the treaty."
New French president Nicolas Sarkozy said there were multiple disputes.
"We don't just have problems with Poland," he said. "We have problems with the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, a little bit with the Czech Republic. The problems are numerous."
Privately, No 10 indicated that Mr Blair wanted his demands met "100 per cent". But European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso retorted: "All the leaders say that they want 100 per cent achievement. But in Europe you've got to be reasonable and rational.
"At the end there has to be some, let's say, agreement."
Mrs Merkel sent an 11th-hour letter pleading with the leaders to compromise, so that Europe could move on from inwardlooking disputes to pressing issues such as climate change, energy supplies and globalisation.
"The European public now expects us to put the necessary reforms of the Union in hand," she wrote. "The time has now come to set out the roadmap for the impending reform of the treaties."
Well, as a German I do agree. It is unfair to have a voting system based on population.
Instead, the voting system should be based on the amount of money a state invests in the projects of the EU and to help the weaker EU members.
Oh my bad, the mean Germans would have too many votes then, and Poland....almost none.
Pssshhh, we just can’t find a “fair” system, that allows Poland to get way more votes then they actually deserve.... /sarc
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Look how many genocides have happened since WWII.
I don’t want to forget the past, I just think those statements hurt Poland’s reputation and political credibility. In my opinion, it just was neither a valuable contribution to the discussion nor helpful for finding a solution. Such statements might be fashionable in Poland, but on the European level they seem a bit awkward. The history between Germany and Poland is a difficult one, and I understand that there is much mistrust, however, we have to accept the economic and political reality.Most European countries don’t share the view of the Polish president, who constantly blames modern Germany to try to rewrite history. There is nothing wrong with trying to make one’s country more powerful, but in the EU that just works by forging alliances, not by trying to blackmail and shut off other member states.
We don’t ?
An ex-member of a grass roots organization was our last foreign minister and Germany is the main fund raising area for greenpeace.
There’s no building project that is not accompanied by ‘critical’ citizens.
To name a good example for a change - the billion project of a glass palace for european self celebrations in my home town has been turned down in favour of paying back states debts - by a grass roots oposition.
At times my country looks much too grass rooty for me.
We just don’t accept elites here - that’s our true problem.
but the poles support the EU to a higher degree than kaszinsky.
In fact throughout europe there are little states where people support the EU so much.
No - only 40% voted - poles have never before in their history shown more disgust to those they had been offered to elect.
51% of those who have the right to vote voted and 3.5 made their votes not valid.
Summ it up and you see that kazinsky is electecd by only 25 % of those poles, who may vote.
If they had elections tomorrow he’d be a gonner.
And I certainly accept the results of the election in poland
Gee, whole Europe would cry if you wouldnt accept that...
Seems so - at least one pole cried a river about me not accepting it.
I was surprised just as you are about my importance.
And - although europe will not ask me about my attitude - so it doesn’t ask for yours.
Even if you where a VIP - I guess your points are not relevant.
Even if we froze the status quo with represents germanies weight in heads and economics to no degree - we would still find our interests considered approprietly.
This is because we have diplomats - and not farmers conducting our political business.
Read Antigone and know what happens to the narrow minded.
“Read Antigone and know what happens to the narrow minded.”
German history shows us perfectly what happens with narrow minded people.
The Greenies look just like the CDU or the SPD to me. Otherwise Paula Kelly would have been that FM. Environmentalism is very much an elitist movement, a kind of effete socialism that would have disgusted Kurt Schumacher. That’s in case you haven’t noticed how trendy it is among the “best people” who decorate “Bunt.” Those elites gather at Davos each year to worry about global warning instead of Islamism. That’s because they can do nothing about the former but could do something about the latter.
NO - you are wrong again.
The statistics are at 51% and this is after three consecutive election in 2 months!
The Right is in firm control in Poland.
Too bad for the Socialists.
You can make assertions like that until the cows come home but you cannot prove it!
global warming is the not the fattest political pig ever chased through the village but for sure the loudest.
Everybody and his dog wants to stick some agenda to it while it passes.
- Merkel wants to use it for her restart auf nuclear power programms in germany.
- France wants to enlarge their market share of cheap and small cars.
- Every party seeks to grab in our pocket to ‘safe our lifes’.
- China should be throtteling it’s soaring economy that drives the prices of raw materials.
- Solar pannels - expensive as hell - should be sold.
- Energy dependence should be lowered (not only bad agendas on that piggy)
- Efficient German Diesel Cars have to be sold.
Poor piggy - so much burden on such a skinny bone.
In fact, EU support is on the decline everywhere in Europe.
Your wishful but unrealistic thinking reminds one of certain German dreamers of the past
Germany is making a fatal error again..and again...and again.
and to bad for poland - beeing conservative is not enough you have to be successful.
I see that.
So why do you want to be in it ?
“and to bad for poland - beeing conservative is not enough you have to be successful.”
As long as you use the name Rummenigge: success for the Germans and that “Miracle of Bern”; though they probably are not worst than some of the other World Cup winners; with the Hand of God; Mussolini and all that, still; concerning 1954:
“It’s just a shame that it now seems that those 11 miracle-workers and German Heroes may have cheated to do it.” - http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/matt20040610.html
And in 1982; Schumacher punched out that French player who may have been on his way to a goal; though Coach Klinsmann’s team and the one from 2002 were good, one can’t help but contemplate diving by the Germans in 1990; not to be outdone by Diego’s antics in ‘86.
I only mention these things, because it does depend on how one defines “success”, honesty and the great financial aid realized by West Germany after the war also plays a part.
I was not aiming onto the astonishing economic performances poland showed to be capable of but I was referring to the negotiation skills of these expert diplomates who wanted to start WWII again for same square root regulation that wouldn’t have brought them any use because they couldn’t convince stone to follow gravity.
“I only mention these things, because it does depend on how one defines success, honesty and the great financial aid realized by West Germany after the war also plays a part.”
Not only a part but a base for the opportunity we used in such a way that it really makes me proud.
Poland does the same with my tax money. Cool. We will hopefully benefit from that as the US reaped what they saw in germany.
Still it strikes me that US conservatives bring the talk to the marshall plan - it’s just what they would never have done - dropping cash onto their enemies.