Skip to comments.We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM
Posted on 06/21/2007 10:54:10 AM PDT by RWR8189
The Polish PM has stunned European leaders today with an astonishing attack on Germany for starting the Second World War.
In a spectacularly undiplomatic outburst, he said his country was losing out in today's European Union as a direct result of the millions of deaths that followed its invasion by Germany in 1939.
"We are only demanding one thing - that we get back what was taken from us," said Jaroslaw Kaczynski at the opening of the EU summit in Brussels, chaired by German chancellor Angela Merkel.
"If Poland had not had to live through the years of 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million."
The issue of population is at the heart of a heated row over voting rights that could wreck Tony Blair's last EU summit.
A proposed new system of sharing out votes rewards countries such as Germany with the biggest numbers - and Poland is angrily demanding more.
Poland's population is 38 million - implying that Mr Kaczynski blames the Germans for the loss of 28 million people.
Mr Kaczynski and his twin brother Lech, Poland's president, are said to be Second World War obsessives, with an encyclopaedic knowledge of their country's sufferings under occupation.
The identical twins, whose father fought in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, have become infamous for their unrestrained comments and dislike of EU integration.
Luxembourg's premier, Jean-Claude Juncker, said they should stop living in the past. "You have to jump into the present," he told FT Deutschland.
"You will not be happy in the long run if you are always looking in the rear-view mirror."
It sets the scene for a rancorous dinner tonight when leaders of the 27 EU states need to thrash out a series of disputes to avoid a crisis.
Mr Blair, notching up his 47th EU summit, told his Cabinet in London that he was prepared to walk away from the table unless his own demands were met in full.
Before flying out, he and Gordon Brown had telephone talks with Mrs Merkel - indicating that Mr Brown is intensely involved in the negotiations.
Mr Blair came under fire for trying to water down the EU's "son of constitution" treaty. Mr Juncker a veteran federalist, fumed: "We will not stand by and see all the substance removed from the treaty."
New French president Nicolas Sarkozy said there were multiple disputes.
"We don't just have problems with Poland," he said. "We have problems with the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, a little bit with the Czech Republic. The problems are numerous."
Privately, No 10 indicated that Mr Blair wanted his demands met "100 per cent". But European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso retorted: "All the leaders say that they want 100 per cent achievement. But in Europe you've got to be reasonable and rational.
"At the end there has to be some, let's say, agreement."
Mrs Merkel sent an 11th-hour letter pleading with the leaders to compromise, so that Europe could move on from inwardlooking disputes to pressing issues such as climate change, energy supplies and globalisation.
"The European public now expects us to put the necessary reforms of the Union in hand," she wrote. "The time has now come to set out the roadmap for the impending reform of the treaties."
Now THAT’S gonna leave a mark...
This isn't a few hundred years or a thousands of years ago, just a few decades.
Germany wants to benefit now from prior bad acts, its kind of like a serial killer wanting to write a book and keep all the profits from his crimes using the arguement that his killings happened along time ago, while the families of his victims are still alive.
One problem. Poland would then have to reclaim the land the Soviets stole from them after the war. I don't think the Ukrainians and Belarussians would much care for that.
The Polish intelligentsia and business classes were targeted for extermination by the Nazis. And the ones the Nazis didn't get, the Soviets did. Those who did manage to escape the country were not welcomed back by the Soviet puppets who ran Poland after the war.
So will the Blacks say the same, about Segregation. And most likely, the Native Americans too.
Germany got The Marshall Plan after the war, Poland got 40+ years of Soviet Domination, thanks to Yalta.
While we're at it, lots of people say that the U.S. committed a huge crime by "stealing" this country from the then current owners. Any profit from that action? I'll bet there are some staggering numbers associated with the death toll among the natives as a result of our action there.
The bottom line is that a lot of things have happened throughout history. If it makes you feel better to blame someone, great. It's probably not going to do much to set thing right though.
Segregation, the Confederacy and the pre War-between-the- States South were all controlled by the democratic party, which now garners about 90% of the black vote. Are they going to sue themselves?
They can say that all they want, but the facts do not tally with their claims.
There is a bit of a differance between killing somones family, and then trying to claim the benefits from doing so, and having great great great great grand papi killing someone elses great great great great grand papi, or segregation, which afforded no benefits to anyone, just mistreatment of one group.
Its akin to a "son of sam" law in New York barring someone from profitting directly from the crimes they committed, especially, when those survivors are still alive and now are being asked to give up power.
The best way to look at it, Germany, not that long ago, went to war so as to become the dominant power of europe, they killed lots of people, now not to long after, they want to be the dominant power of europe because they have a bigger population then other nations, which is a direct result, of them having tried to be the dominant power not to long ago, its like if after first you do not succeed, try something different and then try again, but do not toss away the fruits of your previous labor.
Approx 6 million Poles were killed in WW2 - 50% of those were Jews.
Note that a portion of those were killed by the Ruskies when they took over part of Poland as part of a deal with the Germans and also later near the end of the war when the Ruskies aided in the elimination of Polish nationlists in order to engineer the establishement of a commie state.
Personally, I think the Poles are unwise in whinning about WW2. They took over a large portion of eastern Germany at the end of WW2 as part of a settlement and if they push things too far, they could be in for another ass kicking.
So if someone murders someones family, they get to write a book and keep all the profits?
The son of sam could be a millionaire under this type of scenario, as could most serial killers who can put a pen (or marker) to paper.
One should not benefit from crimes one committed, or even worse, use the fruits of that crime to benefit immediatly over those very victims.
Also, you mentioned Austria, couldn't an arguement be made to take away votes?
But it would cure most of the current conflict within the Ukraine between the Catholics and the Orthodox, the Europhiles and those who look toward Russia.
... while loosing even more territory to the Soviet-Union.