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Open government experts say secrecy endangers public (Ohio CCW List Published)
Sandusky Register ^ | 6/25/07 | Matt Westerhold

Posted on 06/25/2007 2:38:37 PM PDT by Domandred

There has been an assault on open government in the General Assembly that threatens to create two classes of citizens -- those with access to information and those who do not have access.

That's what public records experts contend, and they say it goes to the heart of what makes for good government.

"It's the proverbial slippery slope," said Frank Deaner, director of the Ohio Newspaper Association and a lobbyist in the General Assembly. "It puts one class in a position to tell the other whether it can have access to information."

Deaner said politics is fueling numerous efforts to enact legislation that exempts information from public disclosure, including the state's concealed weapons law.

The weapons law prohibits members of the public from getting information about who has been granted licenses by the state to carry concealed handguns.

Other recent exemptions that have been pressed by state lawmakers include limiting access to coroner's reports and preliminary records, in addition to other documents and information about foster families.

"It's been a continual erosion in the definition of public records during the last three sessions of the General Assembly," Deaner said. "Post-911 security worries and public fear regarding ID theft are being used as excuses to exempt information."

Tim Smith, an attorney who is a public records expert and a journalism professor at Kent State University, shares Deaner's concerns. He said without public disclosure there's no way to assure programs are being properly administered.

"You can't automatically rely on government officials to carefully follow the requirements of the law," said Smith, referring to the concealed weapons law.

The CCW law exempts the disclosure of all information about the application process and criminal backgrounds of anyone who applies for license to carry a concealed handgun. It also exempts the names of those who have been granted a permit.

"If the records are private, I have to rely on the sheriff to make sure he's not making any mistakes," Smith said.

Deaner is concerned the trend to restrict access to public documents will continue and said open government is the basis for democracy.

"Where's the point when political leaders and the public come back to the realization that we live in a democracy?" he asked. "There's a little bit of pain that goes with that."

Supporters of the secrecy provision in the concealed handguns law contend making the information available will enable criminals to target them to steal their guns.

Gov. Ted Strickland's office told the Register Ohioans are better off not knowing who is licensed to carry handguns for that reason and also because criminals would then know who is not armed and those individuals could be targeted.

But Deaner said access to information is a bedrock of good government.

"It's not public information that causes harm to people, it's people who choose to do harm against others," he said. "If someone is motivated to do something like that, they're going to find a way to do it without the benefit of public records."

Staff reporter Chauncey Alcorn contributed to this story.

EDITOR'S NOTE: The decision to make the lists available to readers was made by the Register's managing editor. All inquiries should be directed to 419-609-5866 or mattwesterhold@sanduskyregister.com

CLICK HERE to view the Erie County A-L concealed carry list.

CLICK HERE to view the Erie County M-Z concealed carry list.

CLICK HERE to view the Huron County concealed carry list.

CLICK HERE to view the Ottawa County concealed carry list.

CLICK HERE to view the Sandusky County concealed carry list.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Ohio
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccw; govwatch; privacy
The Sandusky Register in Ohio has pulled a Roanoke and published the CCW lists for 5 counties.

You know the drill.

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/contact_us/

Personal information of the writers is easily available.

1 posted on 06/25/2007 2:38:40 PM PDT by Domandred
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To: Domandred

The flaw in the argument is twofold:

1. It is a right of the people to keep and bear arms and therefore the government has no authority to license the keeping or the bearing. These are records that should not exist because the government has exceeded its authority.

2. This is not “government information” ... it is private information kept by the government. By this logic, health records at publicly funded hospitals should be available from a Google search.

This is just gun grabbers looking for ways to make it uncomfortable for people to own and carry guns.


2 posted on 06/25/2007 2:44:17 PM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic þæt gehate, þæt ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille furðor gan)
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To: Domandred

Can they publish a list of who is getting food stamps? I may or may not want to help them with a cash gift.


3 posted on 06/25/2007 2:45:00 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: Domandred

If your name isn’t on the list, bad people may assume you aren’t armed.


4 posted on 06/25/2007 2:45:37 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: Domandred

If your name isn’t on the list, bad people may assume you aren’t armed.


5 posted on 06/25/2007 2:45:39 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: Domandred

If my name is on the list and a bad guy ,knowing I’m armed brings a weapon, guess who I will want my lawyer to talk to?


6 posted on 06/25/2007 2:53:44 PM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: CindyDawg

Great observation!!!


7 posted on 06/25/2007 3:08:40 PM PDT by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: Domandred

Does that mean the paper will be publishing individual tax returns and medical records?


8 posted on 06/25/2007 3:36:37 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: SittinYonder
What is wrong with gun grabbers? I mean are they just that irrational, or were they scared as children by the sound of a gun? Some are power-hungry and want to disarm everyone but themselves, but I mean the majority: those who seem just irrationally scared and think some cop who shows up 15 minutes later will protect them from any bad person.

Supporters of the secrecy provision in the concealed handguns law contend making the information available will enable criminals to target them to steal their guns.

Criminal ain't that damn stupid (well, some..)! They gonna roll' up on a dude KNOWN to carry a concealed weapon and try to steal it?

9 posted on 06/25/2007 3:55:17 PM PDT by Clock King (Bring the noise!)
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To: Domandred

Step 1: Make women register to use their ‘constitutional right’ to abortion, just like they make gun owners register to carry a concealed weapon.

Step 2: Make list of women from step #1 a public record. Publish information online.

Step 3: Watch how vitriolic lefties and the media are to steps #1 and #2 even being proposed.


10 posted on 06/25/2007 4:08:12 PM PDT by flashbunny (<--- Free Anti-Rino graphics! See Rudy the Rino get exposed as a liberal with his own words!)
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To: Domandred

Did I read this corectly?

OH passed a law taking the lists from the public but exempted newspapers so this newspaper published the list?

Am I correct?


11 posted on 06/25/2007 4:13:33 PM PDT by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: SittinYonder
"By this logic, health records at publicly funded hospitals should be available from a Google search. This is just gun grabbers looking for ways to make it uncomfortable for people to own and carry guns."

Got it in one. Mr. Deaner seems to not understand that the purpose of "open government" laws is for "the people" to track what their governments are doing---not other people.

12 posted on 06/25/2007 4:18:20 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: flashbunny

Flash,

Just stole your idea and published it in their comment section.


13 posted on 06/25/2007 4:39:48 PM PDT by Hazcat (Live to party, work to afford it.)
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To: Domandred
Deaner said politics is fueling numerous efforts to enact legislation that exempts information from public disclosure, including the state's concealed weapons law. To make sure Deaner is not part of a special class of citizen we'll need Deaner's public information: address, phone numbers, social security, credit card numbers, bank accounts, any sealed court documents.
14 posted on 06/26/2007 3:36:54 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Your home for pithy disquistion)
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To: School of Rational Thought

.. and medical records.


15 posted on 06/26/2007 3:37:37 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Your home for pithy disquistion)
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To: Clock King
What is wrong with gun grabbers?

They breath air

16 posted on 06/26/2007 3:39:00 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: SittinYonder
This is just gun grabbers looking for ways to make it uncomfortable for people to own and carry guns.

Of late, I've had second thoughts about seeking permission from the government to do what's already guaranteed in the constitution. Being put on a list only provides future reference for the grabbers when they inevitably come into power. They'll know where to knock first.

17 posted on 06/26/2007 4:10:12 AM PDT by meyer (RNC, DNC, two sides of the same coin.)
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To: Domandred
You know - if we published THEIR names, addresses and phone numbers here on Free Republic, we would get shut down by a lawsuit. Just to point the hypocrisy of the MSM's lack of respect for people's privacy - people who haven't broken the law.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

18 posted on 06/26/2007 4:19:05 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Domandred

If it was public list I would want to be on it regardless of whether I had a weapon or not.


19 posted on 06/26/2007 4:26:59 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Raycpa
Open government, my ass. NONE of these people on those lists works for the government. THEY are private citizens. But hey, let's make the info of the Sandusky Examiner public. Let's see if the media brass like everything made public? I bet not.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

20 posted on 06/26/2007 4:30:41 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Clock King
They gonna roll' up on a dude KNOWN to carry a concealed weapon and try to steal it?

They might go to an unoccupied home if they know a gun is there - guns are valuable on the street.

21 posted on 06/26/2007 9:20:43 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic þæt gehate, þæt ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille furðor gan)
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To: meyer
Of late, I've had second thoughts about seeking permission from the government to do what's already guaranteed in the constitution.

For about two years my license was expired and I continued to carry everyday. Finally, when I was pulled over for speeding and wondering how I was going to explain the gun on my ankle to the cop, I decided to renew my license.

The law is the law, whether I like it or not, and I'm not financially prepared to fight it to the Supreme Court. So my option to change the law is to support candidates who believe in and understand Constitutional Rights ... and oppose those who don't.

Fortunately, the cop just gave me a ticket and we didn't get into a discussion about the gun on my leg.

22 posted on 06/26/2007 9:50:42 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic þæt gehate, þæt ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille furðor gan)
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To: Domandred; EdReform; Ladysmith; Petruchio; PeterPrinciple; alpha-8-25-02; F.J. Mitchell; B4Ranch; ..
Your freedom is under attack!

The Sandusky Register has published the names of concealed carry permit holders in regions of Ohio.
The decision to make the lists available to readers was made by the Register's managing editor. All inquiries should be directed to 419-609-5866 or mattwesterhold@sanduskyregister.com
Ohioans For Concealed Carry has a page of advice on this matter, and I strongly urge all Freepers to contact the newspaper staff and voice strong objections to this move.
23 posted on 06/26/2007 12:17:46 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

If I had a CC permit, I wouldn’t mind all that much if everybody knew it. I might even put it on a tee-shirt.......


24 posted on 06/26/2007 12:26:53 PM PDT by Red Badger (Bite your tongue. It tastes a lot better than crow................)
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To: Raycpa
If it was public list I would want to be on it regardless of whether I had a weapon or not.

Yes! We could publish a "incorrect" list and just say we had a CC permit and let it go at that.........

25 posted on 06/26/2007 12:28:35 PM PDT by Red Badger (Bite your tongue. It tastes a lot better than crow................)
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To: Red Badger

Yes, but that is your personal choice. These people weren’t given the choice.


26 posted on 06/26/2007 12:42:07 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: DaveLoneRanger

True, but public records are , well, public..........


27 posted on 06/26/2007 1:12:48 PM PDT by Red Badger (Bite your tongue. It tastes a lot better than crow................)
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To: CindyDawg
If your name isn’t on the list, bad people may assume you aren’t armed.

On the other hand, there are folks who keep firearms in their houses and don't always secure carry permits. So the effect may well be that a burglar would make such an assumption and still get his @$$ blown away.

28 posted on 06/26/2007 2:51:27 PM PDT by Marauder (Allah = Lucifer)
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To: Domandred
I'd like to know why liberals think gun owners deserve no privacy? What we can do to anti-gun newspaper editors is out them and make their personal information public. Maybe then they'll understand that personal privacy goes both ways and they don't have a right to make private information public just to boost their circulation.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

29 posted on 06/27/2007 2:06:02 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Domandred

"You can't automatically rely on government officials to carefully follow the requirements of the law," said Smith, referring to the concealed weapons law.

No poop Sherlock. Like the government officials that don't follow the original meaning of the Second Amendment?

"referring to the concealed weapons law." What part of "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" does that fall under? Also, with no license required there's no record trail that can be used against the person that CCW.

About the only thing a person can count on government officials to do is to usurp power, prestige and garner unearned paychecks. I know this because virtually all of them do it. Lest I forget, they can be counted on to violate the oaths of office and constitution they swore to uphold.

If the records are private, I have to rely on the sheriff to make sure he's not making any mistakes," Smith said.

Spotting mistakes with regard to violating the Second Amendment? That's easy, if the sheriff requires a person to get a license to CCW from the sheriff then documenting the sheriff violating the Second Amendment is a good thing.

But Deaner said access to information is a bedrock of good government.

Honesty is the foundation for good government. Yes, I know it's obvious. And yet, Deaner overlooked it. Probably a result of his myopia. If Deaner means having a potential whistle blower shadow each member of congress as they talk to lobbyists then that would be a big help. Government officials are employed by the citizens. Because they're our employees we have a better position than saying if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to be concerned about.

30 posted on 06/27/2007 3:38:24 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Domandred

For the sake of the Public Good, the state should publish a list of HIV positive people.

In the schools’ sex education classes, the HIV positive kids could be asked to stand, so that others’ safety is assured.


31 posted on 06/27/2007 6:56:42 AM PDT by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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