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Creationism makes a comeback in US
abc news ^ | Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:24am AEST | Mark Simkin

Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome

In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again.

Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.

Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.

Every national park has at least one gift shop - usually more - selling t-shirts, snow domes, mugs, postcards and books.

At the Grand Canyon you will find books on the canyon's history, the canyon's animals and even the canyon's deaths.

One book, Grand Canyon: A Different View, contains the following excerpt:

"Grand Canyon is not just an icon of beauty. It is a solemn witness to the mighty power of God who is not only the omnipotent creator of all things but also the avenging defender of his own holiness."

It is amazing to think a humble river was able to carve such a mighty canyon. Of course, a geologist will tell you that reflects the power of time rather than the power of the river - the canyon is millions of years old.

But Grand Canyon: A Different View presents a different perspective.

The book is compiled by Tom Vail, who has been guiding rafting trips down the Colorado River for 25 years.

He says for the first 15 years he was an evolutionist.

"In 1994 I became a Christian and started looking at the canyon as my book says, from a different view, and I started exploring the creationist model of the formation of the canyon," he said.

"What I found was all those little questions I had as an evolutionist had answers, and pretty logical answers as I looked at it."

Mr Vail's book is not some cheap pamphlet. It is a full colour coffee-table book, featuring expensive paper, sophisticated layout, spectacular photos, scientific language and lots of quotes from the Old Testament.

Not surprisingly, it is generating debate.

The gulf between creationists and mainstream scientists is as wide as the canyon itself.

The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.

The debate only fuelled sales of the book and Tom Vail says there is plenty of evidence inside the canyon to back his belief.

"We see some very large folding in the canyon where sedimentary layers, which are laid down horizontally, have been curved or carved in big bends, some of them 300 feet tall, and this is done without cracking the rock. How do you do that with hard rock?" he said.

"I'm definitely going against the tide here, but when you look at the evidence, there are major flaws in the dating methods, for example.

Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.

A multi-million dollar creation museum recently opened, at least three of the Republicans running for President do not believe in evolution and Tom Vail's rafting trips are welcoming customers from as far away as Australia.

Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: adifferentview; bookreview; creationism; crevo; differentview; evolution; fsmdidit; grandcanyon; truth
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To: 353FMG
Who screwed around with a test tube to create African scientists?

I'm sure that in Muhammad's mind that would be Adam and Eve.

21 posted on 06/25/2007 6:24:50 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Coyoteman
No, didn't happen that way. A young maiden woke up one day and decided to go down to the river for some water. She ran into a handsome young man. Next thing you know she has all kinds of kids and the young man is over on the other side of the river running with the wild reindeer herds.

She didn't see him again until Spring. He came back.

He became Reindeer Man and she became Herb Woman. The kids grew up to be the Human Beings.

This is an authentic Ice Age story far older than 10,000 years. The next story in the line up is about the mother with two daughters. She told her man to take them someplace to find husbands for the girls.

He took them to a town where all the men were homosexual. They preferred even visiting Reindeer spirits. Eventually the town was destroyed by ice and the woman and her family fled into the wilderness.

Obviously she couldn't find any husbands for the daughters so she turned into stone. Her husband then slept with the daughters and got them pregnant.

There are some other really, really, really old stories from the Good Old Days when the Sa'ami ruled the North.

22 posted on 06/25/2007 6:27:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: 353FMG

And the crazy thing about this is not only is the left taking God out of schools like this but they are also, by forcing evolution on us, promoting the religion of evolution and atheism in the public square (a big no-no from what I come to expect from liberals).


23 posted on 06/25/2007 6:30:53 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: Alien Syndrome
But... the "facts" of creationism come from a grab bag of tribal stories and jingoistic posturings. They are as much fact as the events in Frosty the Snowman. Unless you believe that the "prankster God" has gone out of His way to try and deceive every single person on Earth.

But don't let that slow you down. I'm sure your school district is well overfunded & can afford to pay the huge legal fees the first time this old "teach em both!" chestnut is tried and, again, fails.

Is there a reason that the Christian creation myth somehow deserves a place in a science curriculum while voodoo or Native American creation myths do not?

24 posted on 06/25/2007 6:37:01 PM PDT by Jonathon Spectre (Nazis believed they were doing good.)
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To: muawiyah

That last story sounds a lot like Lott. Very similar!


25 posted on 06/25/2007 6:39:59 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.”GWB-03)
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To: Alien Syndrome
Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.

This article is retarded. The statement "creationism is making a comeback" requires that belief in creationism had at some point become less predominant than it is now. I would wager that with only 1/3 of the republican candidates not believing in evolution we are observing one of the lowest such ratios in history.
26 posted on 06/25/2007 6:41:11 PM PDT by newguy357
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To: Jonathon Spectre

Ah, comic strip theology. Works every time.


27 posted on 06/25/2007 6:41:57 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Coyoteman

Here’s the Cherokee Version of Creation -

The earth is a great island floating in a sea of water, and suspended at each of the four cardinal points by a cord hanging down from the sky vault, which is of solid rock. When the world grows old and worn out, the people will die and the cords will break and let the earth sink down into the ocean, and all will be water again. The Indians are afraid of this.

When all was water, the animals were above in Gälûñ’lätï, beyond the arch; but it was very much crowded, and they were wanting more room. They wondered what was below the water, and at last Dâyuni’sï, “Beaver’s Grandchild,” the little Water-beetle, offered to go and see if it could learn. It darted in every direction over the surface of the water, but could find no firm place to rest. Then it dived to the bottom and came up with some soft mud, which began to grow and spread on every side until it became the island which we call the earth. It was afterward fastened to the sky with four cords, but no one remembers who did this.

At first the earth was flat and very soft and wet. The animals were anxious to get down, and sent out different birds to see if it was yet dry, but they found no place to alight and came back again to Gälûñ’lätï. At last it seemed to be time, and they sent out the Buzzard and told him to go and make ready for them. This was the Great Buzzard, the father of all the buzzards we see now. He flew all over the earth, low down near the ground, and it was still soft. When he reached the Cherokee country, he was very tired, and his wings began to flap and strike the ground, and wherever they struck the earth there was a valley, and where they turned up again there was a mountain. When the animals above saw this, they were afraid that the whole world would be mountains, so they called him back, but the Cherokee country remains full of mountains to this day.

When the earth was dry and the animals came down, it was still dark, so they got the sun and set it in a track to go every day across the island from east to west, just overhead. It was too hot this way, and Tsiska’gïlï’, the Red Crawfish, had his shell scorched a bright red, so that his meat was spoiled; and the Cherokee do not eat it.

The conjurers put the sun another hand-breadth higher in the air, but it was still too hot. They raised it another time, and another, until it was seven handbreadths high and just under the sky arch. Then it was right, and they left it so. This is why the conjurers call the highest place Gûlkwâ’gine Di’gälûñ’lätiyûñ’, “the seventh height,” because it is seven hand-breadths above the earth. Every day the sun goes along under this arch, and returns at night on the upper side to the starting place.

There is another world under this, and it is like ours in everything—animals, plants, and people—save that the seasons are different. The streams that come down from the mountains are the trails by which we reach this underworld, and the springs at their heads are the doorways by which we enter, it, but to do this one must fast and, go to water and have one of the underground people for a guide. We know that the seasons in the underworld are different from ours, because the water in the springs is always warmer in winter and cooler in summer than the outer air.

When the animals and plants were first made—we do not know by whom—they were told to watch and keep awake for seven nights, just as young men now fast and keep awake when they pray to their medicine. They tried to do this, and nearly all were awake through the first night, but the next night several dropped off to sleep, and the third night others were asleep, and then others, until, on the seventh night, of all the animals only the owl, the panther, and one or two more were still awake. To these were given the power to see and to go about in the dark, and to make prey of the birds and animals which must sleep at night. Of the trees only the cedar, the pine, the spruce, the holly, and the laurel were awake to the end, and to them it was given to be always green and to be greatest for medicine, but to the others it was said: “Because you have not endured to the end you shall lose your, hair every winter.”

Men came after the animals and plants. At first there were only a brother and sister until he struck her with a fish and told her to multiply, and so it was. In seven days a child was born to her, and thereafter every seven days another, and they increased very fast until there was danger that the world could not keep them. Then it was made that a woman should have only one child in a year, and it has been so ever since.


28 posted on 06/25/2007 6:42:44 PM PDT by CFC__VRWC
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To: Jonathon Spectre
Is there a reason that the Christian creation myth somehow deserves a place in a science curriculum while voodoo or Native American creation myths do not?

Since you asked, here is another one. (I have quite a few such stories, but no voodoo ones yet.) The Coyote stories are my favorites.


Crow Creation Story

In the beginning, Old Man Coyote stood alone with water surrounding him. Two ducks swam by, and Coyote asked if they had seen anyone else. The ducks said no but thought that something might exist under the water.

Coyote asked if they would travel underwater for him and report on what they saw. The ducks did as they were asked, finding nothing. He asked again, and the ducks returned with a root. On the third try, they found mud and Coyote was happy. He told the ducks that they could build with it, and he began to shape and mold the mud into an island. He blew on it, and it expanded. He blew again, and it grew into the earth. The ducks said they did not like the earth's emptiness, so Coyote created grass and trees out of the roots that came from the water.

Coyote and the ducks loved the earth, but it was flat. They wanted rivers, valleys, mountains, and lakes. So it was done. Soon Coyote and the ducks made a perfect earth, but they grew lonely, with only the three of them to sit and enjoy the land. So Coyote molded dirt to form men and then more mud to create many types of male ducks. Soon, they realized that without women, the males could not have children. So with more dirt he made women and female ducks to populate the earth.

One day Old Man Coyote traveled upon the land and was surprised to find another Coyote. When asked where he came from, the younger brother, named Shirape, said he was unsure of his origin and only knew he existed. As the two traveled along, Shirape wanted Old Man Coyote to make other animals, for only ducks, humans, and the two Coyotes had been created. The elder Coyote agreed, and as he spoke the new animals' names, they were created. He said "Elk" and an elk appeared. He said "Bear" and a bear appeared. This is how it was until all animals were created.


29 posted on 06/25/2007 6:43:48 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Alien Syndrome

Welcome to Free Republic.


30 posted on 06/25/2007 6:44:15 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Jonathon Spectre
>"Is there a reason that the Christian creation myth somehow deserves a place in a science curriculum while voodoo or Native American creation myths do not?"

I dont see why not all. (Except those that incite their followers to MURDER aka cannibals,headhunters, mooseslimes)

The idea of an intelligent creation vs accidental reverse entropy is a no brainer.

31 posted on 06/25/2007 6:44:22 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.”GWB-03)
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To: Jonathon Spectre

32 posted on 06/25/2007 6:47:52 PM PDT by mgstarr (KZ-6090 Smith W.)
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To: Jonathon Spectre

The “facts” of evolution, however, come from an assortment of inaccurate date testing, hoaxes and outright lies. With all the gaps in the evolutionary theory as well all the creatures and organs that evolution can’t explain (such as how the ear evolved or how there is no half an eye) I’m surprised you didn’t see it sooner.

And the reason that Christianity is preferable to the Darwin creation myth is because Christianity promotes a reliable moral code while evolution and atheism teaches racism and cruelty in the name of “survival of the fittest”.


33 posted on 06/25/2007 6:48:10 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: DaveLoneRanger

Thank you.


34 posted on 06/25/2007 6:51:02 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: rawcatslyentist
I dont see why not all. (Except those that incite their followers to MURDER aka cannibals,headhunters, mooseslimes)

Why not? Have you ever read the Muslim story of creation:

"In the time before time, God was. And when God wants to create something, all he needs to say is "Be", and it becomes. So it was that God created the world and the heavens. He made all the creatures, which walk, swim. Crawl and fly on the face of the earth. He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. And consider, as the Qur'an says, how God poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corm, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass. Then it was that God ordered the angels to go to the earth, and to bring seven handfuls of soil, all of different colours, from which he could model man. God took the seven kinds of earth and moulded them into a model of a man. He breathed life and power into it, and it immediately sprang to life. And this first man was called Adam. God took Adam to live in Paradise. In Paradise, God created Eve, the first woman, from out of Adam's side. God taught Adam the names of all the creatures, and then commanded the angel to bow down before Adam. But Iblis, one amongst the angels, refused to do this, and thus began to disobey God's will. God place the couple in a beautiful garden in Paradise, telling them that they could eat whatever they wanted except the fruit of on forbidden tree, But the evil one tempted them to disobey God, and eat the fruit. When God knew that Adam and Eve had disobeyed him, he cast them out of Paradise and sent them to earth. But God is merciful. The earth was created to give food, drink and shelter to the human race. The sun, moon and stars give light. It is a good world, where everything has been created to serve people. And people, the Qur'an teaches, should serve God and obey his will. For those who submit to the will of God will be saved, and taken to live for ever in Paradise."

Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

35 posted on 06/25/2007 6:51:49 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
And the reason that Christianity is preferable to the Darwin creation myth is because Christianity promotes a reliable moral code while evolution and atheism teaches racism and cruelty in the name of “survival of the fittest”.

That and if you don't God'll hit you with a really big flood.

36 posted on 06/25/2007 6:53:23 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Alien Syndrome; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; Elsie; LiteKeeper; ...


You have been pinged because of your interest regarding news, debate and editorials pertaining to the Creation vs. Evolution debate - from the young-earth creationist perspective.
To to get on or off this list (currently the premier list for creation/evolution news!), freep-mail me:
Add me / Remove me



Ugh, there is so much wrong with this article. The author does not seem to have a good grasp of the debate and its status in America.
In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again. Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.
The issue has been on the burner for about ten years. The relatively new incarnation of Intelligent Design (and its test(s) in the court room) has helped, but you don't have the stances of presidential candidates on evolution make headlines unless there has been a significant foundation laid for interest towards the issue.
Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.
Totally wrong. This was just one of many disputes that cropped up around the country on the creation/evolution debate, and hasn't made any headlines (that I'm aware of) since the dumb PEER debacle back in '06.
Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.
It would be interesting to note what polls the author is citing, because the numbers vary.
37 posted on 06/25/2007 6:54:15 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
The “facts” of evolution, however, come from an assortment of inaccurate date testing, hoaxes and outright lies.

Sorry, that happens not to be the case.

38 posted on 06/25/2007 6:56:07 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

As usual, very interesting parallels to the true creation story.


39 posted on 06/25/2007 6:56:14 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: js1138

To be sure, the union of the ACLU and NCSE was a rathole indeed!


40 posted on 06/25/2007 6:59:16 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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