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Creationism makes a comeback in US
abc news ^ | Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:24am AEST | Mark Simkin

Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome

In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again.

Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.

Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.

Every national park has at least one gift shop - usually more - selling t-shirts, snow domes, mugs, postcards and books.

At the Grand Canyon you will find books on the canyon's history, the canyon's animals and even the canyon's deaths.

One book, Grand Canyon: A Different View, contains the following excerpt:

"Grand Canyon is not just an icon of beauty. It is a solemn witness to the mighty power of God who is not only the omnipotent creator of all things but also the avenging defender of his own holiness."

It is amazing to think a humble river was able to carve such a mighty canyon. Of course, a geologist will tell you that reflects the power of time rather than the power of the river - the canyon is millions of years old.

But Grand Canyon: A Different View presents a different perspective.

The book is compiled by Tom Vail, who has been guiding rafting trips down the Colorado River for 25 years.

He says for the first 15 years he was an evolutionist.

"In 1994 I became a Christian and started looking at the canyon as my book says, from a different view, and I started exploring the creationist model of the formation of the canyon," he said.

"What I found was all those little questions I had as an evolutionist had answers, and pretty logical answers as I looked at it."

Mr Vail's book is not some cheap pamphlet. It is a full colour coffee-table book, featuring expensive paper, sophisticated layout, spectacular photos, scientific language and lots of quotes from the Old Testament.

Not surprisingly, it is generating debate.

The gulf between creationists and mainstream scientists is as wide as the canyon itself.

The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.

The debate only fuelled sales of the book and Tom Vail says there is plenty of evidence inside the canyon to back his belief.

"We see some very large folding in the canyon where sedimentary layers, which are laid down horizontally, have been curved or carved in big bends, some of them 300 feet tall, and this is done without cracking the rock. How do you do that with hard rock?" he said.

"I'm definitely going against the tide here, but when you look at the evidence, there are major flaws in the dating methods, for example.

Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.

A multi-million dollar creation museum recently opened, at least three of the Republicans running for President do not believe in evolution and Tom Vail's rafting trips are welcoming customers from as far away as Australia.

Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: adifferentview; bookreview; creationism; crevo; differentview; evolution; fsmdidit; grandcanyon; truth
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To: D Rider

Good point.


41 posted on 06/25/2007 6:59:45 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I don’t want creationism taught, either, because it substitutes some Christians’ religious dogma for actual science.


42 posted on 06/25/2007 7:00:22 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: Alien Syndrome

Exactly: I don’t see what (some) darwinists have against the teaching of empirical evidence against darwinism? Shouldn’t ALL the evidence be looked at, not just that (btw many of the early darwinist evidence has been debunked as hoaxes, and/or bad science) that uphold their worldview..?

If someone is honest they won’t take ANYONE’S word for it and will openly, but honestly explore empirical evidence for themselves, it seem so many don’t want to do this though (not just evolutionists, btw).

But all evidence should be looked at openly, not just that that favors “one side”.

(Censorship) is what happens most often!


43 posted on 06/25/2007 7:00:57 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Republicans if the don't beware ARE the new WHIGS! (all empty hairpieces..) :).)
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To: Coyoteman

Ipso facto already? I thought we agreed we have to wait until at least the first 50 comments are in!


44 posted on 06/25/2007 7:03:38 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: BipolarBob

If God created everything, why couldn’t God create evolution?


45 posted on 06/25/2007 7:04:54 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Our first responsibility is to keep the power of the Presidency out of the hands of the Clintons.)
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To: BipolarBob

There’s good news and bad news. The good news is, other polls show higher numbers. The bad news is, most Americans don’t seem to be acting on their beliefs.


46 posted on 06/25/2007 7:05:09 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Jonathon Spectre
As I noted, not all the stories are legitimate ~ on the other hand, some stories are far older than you can imagine.

At the moment the public schools are forced to adhere to the religious standards current in the Episcopal church. Not sure that's right. Could be we'll get to see what the Catholic standards are like.

47 posted on 06/25/2007 7:05:22 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Coyoteman

All right, some me that you are right. Show that evolution is not the scientific fraud I and so many others know it is. Show me that evolution isn’t morally bankrupted. Show that evolution does not promote atheism and the bigotry that accompanies it.

I’m waiting…


48 posted on 06/25/2007 7:05:40 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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To: BipolarBob
43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years That's less than half. A nation that turns its back on God will not stand for long.

Are you seriously saying that ALL of the other 57% of us, including those of us who believe God created the universe billions of years ago and then implemented rules by which His universe was to develop, have turned our backs on God? If not, you need to rephrase. If so, you need to reconsider your hubris in speaking as if you know the mind of God.

49 posted on 06/25/2007 7:06:27 PM PDT by cammie
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To: Alien Syndrome

I predict 550 posts or more.


50 posted on 06/25/2007 7:07:16 PM PDT by HoosierHawk
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To: DaveLoneRanger
As usual, very interesting parallels to the true creation story.

They are all equally true to their respective true believers.

So what makes you think your beliefs are more "true" than those of the 4,000 other extant world religions? And what is your evidence?

Not opinion, not revelation, not scripture, not belief, but verifiable evidence! (And you folks criticize the theory of evolution for "lacking evidence"!)

51 posted on 06/25/2007 7:10:38 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: BipolarBob

A lot of us in the 57 percent are among the faithful who believe God created the universe over a slightly longer period of time. (A day is as a thousand years, etc.)


52 posted on 06/25/2007 7:11:08 PM PDT by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008)
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To: Non-Sequitur
Why not?

Why axe why?
Try Bud Dry!

Cerially even a broken watch tells the correct time twice a day. Serial liars will often tell the truth, to give themselves credibilty! Is-Slime is from satan! It is an affront to mankind and all of Gods creation! What good has come from the mohamicidals?

53 posted on 06/25/2007 7:13:57 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.”GWB-03)
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To: rockprof
bump

“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” --Albert Einstein

54 posted on 06/25/2007 7:15:40 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Alien Syndrome
"And the reason that Christianity is preferable to the Darwin creation myth is because Christianity promotes a reliable moral code while evolution and atheism teaches racism and cruelty in the name of 'survival of the fittest'."

I hope you don't mean to suggest that this somehow validates creationism. Evolution and creationism should be judged according to their adherence to current evidence.

"...there is no half an eye."

You will find this of interest: Claim CB921.1: What use is half an eye? I am curious about your take on the reponse.
55 posted on 06/25/2007 7:17:18 PM PDT by Boxen (If we can hit that bull's-eye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards...Checkmate!)
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To: Alien Syndrome
All right, some me that you are right. Show that evolution is not the scientific fraud I and so many others know it is. Show me that evolution isn’t morally bankrupted. Show that evolution does not promote atheism and the bigotry that accompanies it.

You made the statement:

The “facts” of evolution, however, come from an assortment of inaccurate date testing, hoaxes and outright lies.

I called you on that statement. Don't you think you are under some obligation to support your statement?

For example, can you name five hoaxes in evolution? I'll give you a hint: Piltdown Man was a hoax. Now all you need is four! Are you up to it? There are 150 years of fossils, so from your statement it should be easy, right?

Find four more genuine hoaxes and we can go from there.

56 posted on 06/25/2007 7:17:24 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.

Making a comeback? Since when did it ever go away? Them saying so didn't make it happen. They're really just horrified to find out they were wrong.

57 posted on 06/25/2007 7:23:24 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Alien Syndrome
The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.

Where do they get off thinking they can make demands like that? Do they own the park? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the books. Mind control police.

58 posted on 06/25/2007 7:26:10 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Coyoteman
I don't see what's so hard about accepting a common ancestor in the case of the true creation story.
So what makes you think your beliefs are more "true" than those of the 4,000 other extant world religions? And what is your evidence?
That would get into matters of faith, theology and so forth, and you have shown naught but utter contempt for the Christian faith.
Not opinion, not revelation, not scripture, not belief, but verifiable evidence! (And you folks criticize the theory of evolution for "lacking evidence"!)
You're committing the same fallacy as those who sneer that evolution has no evidence either. As has been explained before, the evidence is the same, and is more in line with creation than evolution. We don't have "creationist evidence" and "evolutionist evidence." We have different perspectives on the same evidence.
59 posted on 06/25/2007 7:26:15 PM PDT by DaveLoneRanger (As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.)
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To: Coyoteman

You are the one came here promoting evolution, the burden of proof is on you. I more than supported the need for competent science in the class room.

And if you want more hoaxes I’ll give you more than you asked for (keep in mind that this is only the beginning of the deceit of evolution): Neanderthal man, carbon 14 dating, sediment layers, dinosaurs and humans living in different time periods, Lucy.


60 posted on 06/25/2007 7:28:01 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
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