Posted on 06/25/2007 5:55:14 PM PDT by Alien Syndrome
In the United States the old but bitter debate between evolution and creationism is heating up again.
Three of the Republican presidential candidates do not believe in evolution and a high-tech creation museum recently opened in Kentucky.
Much of the debate has been fuelled by a book claiming the Grand Canyon, one of America's most well-known landmarks, was carved by Noah's flood rather than erosion.
Every national park has at least one gift shop - usually more - selling t-shirts, snow domes, mugs, postcards and books.
At the Grand Canyon you will find books on the canyon's history, the canyon's animals and even the canyon's deaths.
One book, Grand Canyon: A Different View, contains the following excerpt:
"Grand Canyon is not just an icon of beauty. It is a solemn witness to the mighty power of God who is not only the omnipotent creator of all things but also the avenging defender of his own holiness."
It is amazing to think a humble river was able to carve such a mighty canyon. Of course, a geologist will tell you that reflects the power of time rather than the power of the river - the canyon is millions of years old.
But Grand Canyon: A Different View presents a different perspective.
The book is compiled by Tom Vail, who has been guiding rafting trips down the Colorado River for 25 years.
He says for the first 15 years he was an evolutionist.
"In 1994 I became a Christian and started looking at the canyon as my book says, from a different view, and I started exploring the creationist model of the formation of the canyon," he said.
"What I found was all those little questions I had as an evolutionist had answers, and pretty logical answers as I looked at it."
Mr Vail's book is not some cheap pamphlet. It is a full colour coffee-table book, featuring expensive paper, sophisticated layout, spectacular photos, scientific language and lots of quotes from the Old Testament.
Not surprisingly, it is generating debate.
The gulf between creationists and mainstream scientists is as wide as the canyon itself.
The American Geological Institute and other groups demanded the book be removed from the national park.
The debate only fuelled sales of the book and Tom Vail says there is plenty of evidence inside the canyon to back his belief.
"We see some very large folding in the canyon where sedimentary layers, which are laid down horizontally, have been curved or carved in big bends, some of them 300 feet tall, and this is done without cracking the rock. How do you do that with hard rock?" he said.
"I'm definitely going against the tide here, but when you look at the evidence, there are major flaws in the dating methods, for example.
Much to the horror of mainstream scientists, creationism seems to be making a comeback in the United States.
A multi-million dollar creation museum recently opened, at least three of the Republicans running for President do not believe in evolution and Tom Vail's rafting trips are welcoming customers from as far away as Australia.
Opinion polls suggest 43 per cent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. Only 14 per cent believe humans evolved without divine involvement.
bfl
I am all ears. Please enlighten me. Please pick one of those topics and show me where it is a hoax.
(Please pick Carbon-14 dating, as that is one of my primary fields of expertise. Oh, please pick that field!)
I think the article meant that creationism has finally gotten past the tyrannical hold the Darwin movement had on the school system, not that it has gone away.
There was a beginning supported by the Big Bang Theory and Einstein’s equations and Hubble’s observations.
Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void,...
Supported by the solar nebula theory and the proto earth.
Gen 1:20 ”Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures,
Scientists say that life arose in the seas.
Gen 1:24 ”Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind...
Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground,
“Shaped from clay [origin of life]”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1515522/posts
Scientists have concluded that clay was necessary for the formation of life.
Eccles 1:6 Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns.
Scripture describes the circulating system of winds.
Eccles 1:7 All the rivers flow into the sea, Yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, There they flow again.
The Bible also describes the water cycle.
Lev 17:10 - 12 `And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. `For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’ “Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, `No person among you may eat blood, nor may any alien who sojourns among you eat blood.’
Blood is necessary for life. The life is in the blood.
Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Job 9 5, 8 ”It is God who removes the mountains, they know not how, When He overturns them in His anger; 8. Who alone stretches out the heavens And tramples down the waves of the sea;
Expansion of the universe.
Col 1: 15- 17 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
All things are being held together; gravitation, strong and weak nuclear forces, magnetism.
Science supporting teachings of the Bible. Remember which came first by some thousands of years.
Pretty good for a bunch of *ignorant goat herders*. Where do you suppose they learned all that?
Well, there is that nonsense about a global flood about 4350 years ago. And a tower of Babel leading to all extant languages shortly thereafter. Or are you forgetting those boo-boos?
No need to go over Carbon 14, you should already know how inaccurate it is, so I’ll go over the others.
Neanderthal and Lucy have both been proven to be apes (Neanderthal was a gorilla and Lucy was a small chimpanzee).
Sediment layers have shown time and time again that fossils have been found in the “wrong” layer, with “current” animals showing up in the bottom and extinct animals at the upper layers.
And it is common knowledge that human footprints have been found along side dinosaur footprints, look it up.
And I have also noticed that you have shone no proof what so ever in support of evolution, typical.
Atheist have never been to keen on facts in any way (acknowledging them or using them).
Boo-boos?
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. So you're going to ignore all the other scientific evidence that supports what the Bible has been teaching for thousands of years and focus on two events, although I fail to see what the Tower of Babel has to do with evolution and the earth's geologic history, that you claim have no evidence for?
Your saying the Flood didn't happen because there's no evidence for it is like saying junk DNA is *junk* because we don't know what it's for YET. There IS evidence of floods, by your own admission. Have you taken into account erosion, plate tectonics, the fact that the earth would NOT be covered uniformly with a thick layer of sediment due to currents, and that much of the sediment could be under the oceans, which cover the majority of the earth's surface?
Saying that there was no Biblical flood because you didn't find evidence at a date you expected is like a little kid plugging their ears and singing *I can't hear you.*
*Oh, it didn't happen at 4350? Too bad, I'm right, you're wrong.* You won't even consider any other dates. What are you afraid of? That you will find evidence there and it'll blow your world view to pieces, so you won't even look elsewhere?
Argue with these folks about the date and then get back to me:
The date of the global flood:2252 BC -- layevangelism.com
2304 BC -- Answers in Genesis (+/- 11 years).
2350 BC -- Morris, H. Biblical Creationism. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1993.
2370 BC -- TalkOrigins.com
2500 BC -- http://www.nwcreation.net/biblechrono.html
2522 BC -- Dr. Gerhard Hasel
2978-3128 BC -- http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/199605/0162.html
3300 BC -- http://www.biblediscoveries.com/flood1.html
3537 BC -- Setterfield (1999)
One of our friends has taught creationism/ID in a local school for years now. It’s a small rural school and he’s done a great job. He speaks in different places regarding ID and he is an amazing lecturer and teacher. He never fails to amaze me.
Sorry, that happens not to be the case.* I do not "know how inaccurate it is" and neither do you.
If you have any evidence for "how inaccurate it is" lets see it. But you should beware of the creationist websites on this subject. They are doing apologetics, not science, and they are riddled with errors, misstatements, faulty research, and other examples of creation "science."
* We are discouraged from using the word "lie" on this site, so I use this phrase instead.
The last chapters of Job, around 38 and on, are fascinating commentaries about God creating the world and putting the foundations in place, etc. It’s one of my very favorite parts of the Bible.
I don’t think they’re boo boos. Almost all religions talk about the flood. Must be SOMETHING to it if they all feature it in their scriptures. And who says the Tower of Babel isn’t true????
Stupid Statement Indeed when one cannot post to the right person. Here's your sign.
“Hope???” If you mean you hope we all go back to the days when we all sat in caves and died of disease before we turned thirty, by all means do so, because the whole world would be better off without you, but don’t force the rest of us to believe your retarded fairy tales.
Once again you have ignored request for proof for evolution. No matter, time will vindicate the faithful like it has time and time again, all this despite the fact so many avoid providing any evidence to support their view point.
Perhaps in time the evolutionist will realize the damage that they caused to our country by promoting atheism and its philosophy of “do what ever you want, no matter what the harm is done by it”. I only hope that it won’t be too late.
Mine too. Job offers such insight to Gods methods.
try reading Gigamesh at Hammurabi. There’s a secondary source for the flood story.
Its statements like that and the multitude of selfish action that are the reason that atheists aren’t taken very seriously. Insulting other’s faith is not a good way to earn friends.
Thank you for validating my point.
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